US Debt - Visualized in physical $100 bills

[classy]

That is cool and scary all at the same time.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

When you look at the picture of our debt in trillion dollar platinum coins... it is really not that bad.

:thumbsup: Good one!

 

[GrGr]

Then we have the little matter of the US current account balance that is a whopping $465 Trillion dollars in the red. Oops.

Who is going to balance that part?

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2187rank.html

 

[Tom]

Then we have the little matter of the US current account balance that is a whopping $465 Trillion dollars in the red. Oops.

Who is going to balance that part?

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2187rank.html

looks like $465 billion to me.

 

[soulcougher73]

Throw in a little fraud, waste, and abuse as well. But even if all loopholes were closed... do you really think tax revenues would grow enough to overcome a $1.4 trillion deficit? hardly.

No all that is needs to end. But lacking the revenue you expected isnt helping much

 

[GrGr]

looks like $465 billion to me.

So it does indeed. Makes more sense that way I must say...

 

[Matt1970]

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrGr
Then we have the little matter of the US current account balance that is a whopping $465 Trillion dollars in the red. Oops.

Who is going to balance that part?

https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat.../2187rank.html

looks like $465 billion to me

This entry records a country's net trade in goods and services, plus net earnings from rents, interest, profits, and dividends, and net transfer payments (such as pension funds and worker remittances) to and from the rest of the world during the period specified.

That's our trade deficit. Wiki claims over $500 Billion for 2011 and we were as high as $750 Billion in 2006 so ya, that is a huge problem. How do you stimulate an economy that send that much money overseas every year?

 

[Attic]

Yep, that's a lot of money. Now, let's see about paying it off. Let's take the current population of roughly 300,000,000. As people at the top of this list die off, more people will be born to replace them. If each person worked from the age of 21 to the age of 65, that works out to roughly $1000 per year (not including interest) in taxes to cover the entire debt. I pay far far more than that each year in taxes.

I'm not trivializing the amount of debt; just saying that the video only offers perspective as to the size of the debt relative to $100 bills, but not the size of the debt relative to the population or earnings.

Of course, I think the debt needs to be reduced. But, it's not as "we're doooooomed!" as the video is hoping people instantly think.

It's funny you pick that number, b/c it does trivialize the debt mainly because it doesn't solve it. You need a much bigger number per taxpayer to payoff the debt during ones working years. I have had conversations with other liberals who oddly chose the same number to suggest debt payments won't readily effect the average american if everybody chips in. Reality is a different story b/c the 1k does not come close to solving the debt issue.

You are trivializing the magnitude of the debt by not including interest in your 1k payments, singling out non interest adjusted debt payments (minimal) from the rest of the tax burden citizens are forced to pay, using 300M (incuding babies, elderly, disabled, and all other non tax payers) instead of the amount of folks paying taxes (112M), and not considering the most important fact that the debt is slated to grow substantially until and if it ever reaches a pinnacle and starts to subside.

If you adjusted properly the numbers, what you are looking at currently is roughly 200k of debt per family in the united states. Thats well beyond the scope 95% of families to take on and pay off during their working lifetimes in addition to their other expenses.

Let me repeat that, 200k of government debt per family and with current policy it will rise each year for the next 10 years.

This could double in 10-15 years on our current trajectory. The truth is your 1k would not only not begin to pay off the debt, it wouldn't even pay off the interest per year on the debt even if you include a 2nd working family member.

It's a bigger problem than 1k of taxes per year per taxpayer as you suggested. Though I agree that we will get it under control, it is also painfully clear few understand the damage it has the potential to cause if not brought under control during Obama's term.

 

[Ausm]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTBODoBaCns&feature=player_embedded

I think every politician should see this before they blindly whip out the checkbook every year. Looking at a number with a bunch of zeros after it clearly isn't doing justice.

That's what 2 unfunded wars,Unpaid for Tax cuts and Medicare Part D looks like...

 

[Svnla]

The 16T and climbing number is just the debt. Google the "unfunded liablities" of the Fed, then States, then all of the munis/cities/towns around the US and the number would be about 42T (from BusinessWeek IIRC).

<<<-----<sad panda> and worrying about the future of the US.

 

[Matt1970]

That's what 2 unfunded wars,Unpaid for Tax cuts and Medicare Part D looks like...

Is that $16 Trillion? Umm, NO !! More Like less than $3. Either way we can't go back in time and stop any of that from happening. We can try and curb some of the current spending but nobody seems to want to cooperate.

 

[Ausm]

Is that $16 Trillion? Umm, NO !! More Like less than $3. Either way we can't go back in time and stop any of that from happening. We can try and curb some of the current spending but nobody seems to want to cooperate.

First you have to admit where the debt came from....

 

[Matt1970]

First you have to admit where the debt came from....

Sure if all you want to do is play the blame game rather than fix the problem.

 

[Ausm]

Sure if all you want to do is play the blame game rather than fix the problem.

Why didn't the Repubs worry about it during Bush's reign, but now it seems to be a problem? If we would have addressed the problem MUCH sooner the pain would be much less.

 

[Ausm]

Costs of the Bush tax cuts:

http://costoftaxcuts.com/about/

Cost of two unfunded wars:

http://costofwar.com/

Cost of Medicare Part D

http://www.forbes.com/2009/11/19/re...-care-opinions-columnists-bruce-bartlett.html

How much revenue lost to the Recession:

http://www.slate.com/articles/business/project_syndicate/2011/04/proud_of_what.html

 

[Matt1970]

Why didn't the Repubs worry about it during Bush's reign but now it seems to be a problem? If we would have addressed the problem MUCH sooner the pain would be much less.

Invent a time machine and we are in business. We can however deal with what is going on now.

 

[Ausm]

Invent a time machine and we are in business. We can however deal with what is going on now.

Why not prevent the debt problem before it became a problem ? Will the Rethugs be on a deficit Jihad if they ever regain the White House...I doubt it

 

[Fayd]

Yep, that's a lot of money. Now, let's see about paying it off. Let's take the current population of roughly 300,000,000. As people at the top of this list die off, more people will be born to replace them. If each person worked from the age of 21 to the age of 65, that works out to roughly $1000 per year (not including interest) in taxes to cover the entire debt. I pay far far more than that each year in taxes.

I'm not trivializing the amount of debt; just saying that the video only offers perspective as to the size of the debt relative to $100 bills, but not the size of the debt relative to the population or earnings.

Of course, I think the debt needs to be reduced. But, it's not as "we're doooooomed!" as the video is hoping people instantly think.

the problem is debt rises with no intent to ever pay it off.

we're not past the point of no return yet, but our country can't operate this way forever.

 

[SparkyJJO]

Why didn't the Repubs worry about it during Bush's reign, but now it seems to be a problem? If we would have addressed the problem MUCH sooner the pain would be much less.

You act like we all applauded his deficit spending.

WE DIDN'T.

Then Obama came in and made it a heck of a lot worse in 4 years than Bush did in 8, but more democrats have told me that it was "necessary" and a "good thing" than republicans told me that they were OK with Bush's deficit spending. And a lot more of my friends, coworkers, clients, etc are republican than democrat.

And you attach a "cost of tax cuts" - lesser income isn't a COST, it is less revenue. Huge difference. Cost is expenditures. You can say the tax cuts resulted in a larger budget deficit, but you should not mix your terms and call it a cost as it simply is not. Cost of wars and cost of medicare are valid points as those are expenditures.

Besides, all that is a moot point anyway as that is in the past. Let's look at the problem we currently have. Costs have to be reduced. You can't just simply boost the income (raise taxes) and call it a day. There is only so much money to go around and a lot of people are hurting. Raising their taxes will hurt them that much more. If you go too far with it, raising taxes on businesses could put them out of business if they are on a shoestring (many are), actually resulting in LESS tax revenue. You have to be careful with tax increases.

The issue is the majority of Washington (Democrats in particular) do not want to cut spending. Heck Obama just did an executive order giving everyone a pay raise - when they already make more money than most of the normal working class.

 

[Tom]

That's our trade deficit. Wiki claims over $500 Billion for 2011 and we were as high as $750 Billion in 2006 so ya, that is a huge problem. How do you stimulate an economy that send that much money overseas every year?

welcome immigrants. use our wealth to invest in education, research, capitalism, instead of letting the richest hoard it away.

 

[wirednuts]

When you look at the picture of our debt in trillion dollar platinum coins... it is really not that bad.

i agree. especially when money is just a dream anyway. theres a reason the people we owe money to arent crying for us to pay them back. because theyre scared of us HHAAHAHAHAAHAHAAHA america FUCK YEAH

 

[Farang]

I don't know why people get so worked up over this. The national debt is not the same as the balance on your credit card, it's healthy to have a debt. Over the long term projections, yes it is too high but it's not that hard to fix

In terms of our political discourse it's mostly a political football used by Republicans to prevent Democrats from doing anything in office. Notice the marked change in dialogue immediately after Obama was elected, same for Clinton.

 

[bradley]

Don't let this scaremongering video worry you. We don't even print money anymore -- so the issue's moot. That much money is literally only a few small keystrokes away.

 

[Matt1970]

I don't know why people get so worked up over this. The national debt is not the same as the balance on your credit card, it's healthy to have a debt. Over the long term projections, yes it is too high but it's not that hard to fix

In terms of our political discourse it's mostly a political football used by Republicans to prevent Democrats from doing anything in office. Notice the marked change in dialogue immediately after Obama was elected, same for Clinton.

Who told you it was healthy to have a debt? How in the hell does that make sense to you? The fact that we are paying an ever increasing amount of our tax revenue just on the interest alone doesn't bother you? It just happens to be over 10% of our total tax revenue for interst alone. What about when it's 15%? Or 20, or 30?

 

[Nemesis 1]

Obama just did, which I applaud. And we Democrats want to eliminate more loopholes going forward.

And we all don't have to pay $53k. David Letterman and Bill Gates will pay a lot more, I will pay a lot less, if we were really going to pay it off.

Not to mention we Democrats advocate cutting 2 or 3 trillion in spending over the next 10 years.

1. Nobody in their right mind thinks we have to have no debt so we don't need to pay off all of the $16 trillion.

2. If I understand them correcty, most serious analysts of our debt don't say we need to pay any of the $16 trillion, what we need to do is arrest the trend of it increasing, pretty soon.

So despite the hysteria, the debt is a solvable problem.

What's more difficult is solving our jobs problem long term, which I believe is going to require a lot of investment in education, research, infrastructure.

Hay your in obama heaven . wait until the heat is turned on .lol So your saying next year at this time our debt will be less than it is now . I will wager everthing I own that is far from the truth.