US Debt Thread

[Jhhnn]

The significance of debt is partly expressed in terms of debt maintenance costs. Current US govt costs are over $300B annually, during a period of record low interest rates, That will obviously increase rather quickly if interest rates rise. A rate increase of 1% adds $75B/yr to that amount, even if borrowing ceased tomorrow... Expect debt maintenance cost to exceed that of all of HHS or the Military, if current trends continue...

Can't figure out why your tax dollars don't go as far as they should? Parasitic debt, induced by years of supply side economic tomfoolery...

If economic collapse ensues, it's because it has been induced by the Right's not-so-hidden starve the beast agenda. The problem being, of course, that many of us who are non-wealthy will starve along with said governmental beast...

Ahh, sometimes I yearn for the days of my childhood, when "Conservatives" advocated balanced budgets and a mind our own business foreign policy... when suitable tariffs and overseas investment regulations tied Capitalists' fortunes to those of the rest of America...

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Good points. I'm not familiar with this LaRouche guy...but he brings up good points about for every dollar of gdp increase, it costs several times more in debt.

He is often said to be the founder of Libertarianism, though others, including many Libertarians, claim he is nothing more than a former Marxist turned fascist.

You can read about him here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P...ews_of_Lyndon_LaRouche

Many of the points in the article could possibly be acceptable if they were supported by further data. As it stands they are like someone showing you an island and claiming it's a representation of the world.

Could you perhaps give your opinion to some of the questions i mentioned?

You could ask a 100 top economists your question and get 100 different asnswer to those questions.

imo, the answer to most of them is: We don't really know, we guess and hope for the best.

The only one that differs is:

how to stop the cycle?

If you mean the cycle of deficit spending, that won't happen. Neither should it stop.

Why not? Should it just follow slightly behind GDP or does that even matter?

Infinite debt?

You mean it doesn't?

http://zfacts.com/metaPage/lib...ional-Debt-History.pdf

Currently, percentage of debt to GDP is lower than it ever was during the Clinton years.

It is? Clinton had 58% total debt to GDP in 2000. 2004 Estimates were for 65.3, 2005 - 67.5, 2006 - 69. Looks like the debt is estimated to grow much faster than GDP at this point. Seems to me that it's high and increasing. Am I missing something?

Ahh, sometimes I yearn for the days of my childhood, when "Conservatives" advocated balanced budgets and a mind our own business foreign policy... when suitable tariffs and overseas investment regulations tied Capitalists' fortunes to those of the rest of America...

I don't know if I've ever had that during my lifetime, but I wouldn't mind it at all.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
The significance of debt is partly expressed in terms of debt maintenance costs. Current US govt costs are over $300B annually, during a period of record low interest rates, That will obviously increase rather quickly if interest rates rise. A rate increase of 1% adds $75B/yr to that amount, even if borrowing ceased tomorrow... Expect debt maintenance cost to exceed that of all of HHS or the Military, if current trends continue...

Can't figure out why your tax dollars don't go as far as they should? Parasitic debt, induced by years of supply side economic tomfoolery...

If economic collapse ensues, it's because it has been induced by the Right's not-so-hidden starve the beast agenda. The problem being, of course, that many of us who are non-wealthy will starve along with said governmental beast...

Ahh, sometimes I yearn for the days of my childhood, when "Conservatives" advocated balanced budgets and a mind our own business foreign policy... when suitable tariffs and overseas investment regulations tied Capitalists' fortunes to those of the rest of America...

However out interest load has not drastically changed in the last 15 years and is on par with what it was 10 years ago, without indexing to inflation.

linkage

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: Engineer
It is? Clinton had 58% total debt to GDP in 2000. 2004 Estimates were for 65.3, 2005 - 67.5, 2006 - 69. Looks like the debt is estimated to grow much faster than GDP at this point. Seems to me that it's high and increasing. Am I missing something?

That would be Bush's trickle down economics.
Combine that with the huge problems with SS and liberal spending. You've got expnential debt growth.

I dont think anyonw knows what a conservative is these days.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: Engineer
It is? Clinton had 58% total debt to GDP in 2000. 2004 Estimates were for 65.3, 2005 - 67.5, 2006 - 69. Looks like the debt is estimated to grow much faster than GDP at this point. Seems to me that it's high and increasing. Am I missing something?

That would be Bush's trickle down economics.
Combine that with the huge problems with SS and liberal spending. You've got expnential debt growth.

I dont think anyonw knows what a conservative is these days.

I don't think the masses care, so long as they get tax cuts and they don't see the debt in their day to day lives. Sorta makes me wish that I were like the masses again.........really does.

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: Stunt


Why doesnt the whole world just go on a huge spending spee if all money is free and doesnt matter. What is the significance of debt?

We have some pretty good numbers to work with in this thread so that the little guy like me can understand the significance of the debt structure of this country.


We have the yearly income.

We have the Debt.

*Ahem* Just wish someone could find a link to the value of the assets.

Originally posted by: Stunt


Ask and you shall recieve.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: Stunt


Why doesnt the whole world just go on a huge spending spee if all money is free and doesnt matter. What is the significance of debt?

We have some pretty good numbers to work with in this thread so that the little guy like me can understand the significance of the debt structure of this country.


We have the yearly income.

We have the Debt.

*Ahem* Just wish someone could find a link to the value of the assets.

Originally posted by: Stunt


Ask and you shall recieve.

For crying out loud...if you are trying to make a point...it's called google...use it.

 

[Jhhnn]

You forget, Charrison, that the debt is constantly refinanced, and that current interest rates are at historical lows. The govt has been exercising its option to call in old debt, pay it off, refinance at lower rates and longer terms. Kinda like refinancing your home on a 30 year ARM, paying off the credit cards, blowing the cash difference... when money tightens up and rates climb, you're screwed...

You'll also notice from other charts in your linked source that publically held debt actually decreased during the late Clinton presidency, while intragovernmental debt grew, as it has to, seeing as how much of that was from the SS trust. That's pretty much a necessity, as there's really no other mechanism to account for funds from the SS trust...

It's not like many folks had their nuts in a tax vise at that period of time, but we definitely will when the Bushistas reach the end of their run on the treasury....

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
You forget, Charrison, that the debt is constantly refinanced, and that current interest rates are at historical lows. The govt has been exercising its option to call in old debt, pay it off, refinance at lower rates and longer terms. Kinda like refinancing your home on a 30 year ARM, paying off the credit cards, blowing the cash difference... when money tightens up and rates climb, you're screwed...

You'll also notice from other charts in your linked source that publically held debt actually decreased during the late Clinton presidency, while intragovernmental debt grew, as it has to, seeing as how much of that was from the SS trust. That's pretty much a necessity, as there's really no other mechanism to account for funds from the SS trust...

It's not like many folks had their nuts in a tax vise at that period of time, but we definitely will when the Bushistas reach the end of their run on the treasury....

Um....just pointing out some facts.