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US Customs officials conducts laptop search of HD

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Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
Originally posted by: Marlin1975
On the street then I would say no.

BUT when travling by air it is already known you and your belongingss will be opened and searched. By that alone you have little reason to believe you have any real privacy and as such the serach should be legal.
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What threat does data on a hard drive impose on a flight? It's not like data on my hard drive can explode.

While we are all in agreement that this guy is a sick fuck, I do respect his rights as laid down by the constitution
Specifically the 4th Amendment of the Bill of Rights. For those of you that don't know or have stopped caring. Here's a refresher:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
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In this case, and this day and age, papers should mean digital files as well.
I have nothing to hide, but I don't want people rummaging through my stuff. When cops serve search warrants they trash houses and they don't have to clean it up. Any damage done is up to the victim to fix. Same goes here. IF the TSA officials are going through this guy or anyone's computer, they can delete and copy anything they want. Got naked pics of your wife, well now they do and they can't be taken back.

Anyone that is in agreement with this ruling needs to pack their crap up and move to Russia or China where this is actually legal.

The only reason this was over-ruled by the superior courts is that they wanted to make their numbers look good when it came to charging someone with child pornography. "Think of the children."
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QFT
 
Originally posted by: QED
Originally posted by: waggy
Originally posted by: QED
Originally posted by: Gnrslash4life
You can question morales and whatever else but doesnt anyone have any privacy anymore?
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So why don't you question the random searching of any belongings at all at the airports? Either
you think random searches at airports are reasonable (and thus extend to laptop searches), or they
are not .
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random searches should be limited to the safety of the plane (bombs, weapons etc) not to look to see waht files you have on a computer.
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But what about border entries? If you've ever been out of the country and flown back in, you know you get the joy of traveling through customs where they have the right to go through all of your belongings-- not for safety reasons, but to ensure you are not bringing anything into the country illegally. Are these searches also an invasion of our right to privacy? I don't think so...
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It sure is an invasion of our privacy. Anyone else think it's odd that our rights to privacy and freedom are being stripped away slowly in the guise of "safety" when all they would really have to do is tell all Arabs to get the fuck out?
Think about it. They are pissing on the Constitution left and right for "safety" reasons, but when you know who the people to worry about are Middle Eastern men, why can't they just target them? Oh, wait, sorry that wouldn't be nice and would make people feel bad. boohoo.
 
Originally posted by: BigJ
Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Originally posted by: BigJ
Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Originally posted by: QED
Uhh... why not? I'm about as libertarian as they come, but the whole point of random searches at borders is to ensure you are not bringing anything illegal into the country-- so why shouldn't that extend to digital property as well as tangible property?
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It comes down to two reasons:

1. Constitutionality
2. Slippery slope scenarios

The first dictates that you are not to be subject to "unreasonable" searches without a warrant.

The second comes into play with a "Where does it end" situation. If they are able to ensure that you didn't bring anything illegal into the country, then why can't they just say that you could have been traveling outside of the country to meet with someone that had already sent you something via mail or courier and then be able to search your home if they don't find anything on your person without warrants either.

You would think that the first would cover the second, but the Bush admin is doing it daily (warrantless wiretapping) and the SCOTUS won't rule on it.
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I agree, but you have to search the courts for "unreasonable" and see that since everybody gets the same treatment and it is widely known your property will be searched at a airport, let alone all the right wing judges Bush/republicans have put on the SC court, this would stand on appeal all the way to the SC.
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Uhh...you do realize what the 9th Circuit Court is, right? This ruling has absolutely nothing to do with party lines in this case.
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You do have the ability to read and see i was responding to someone that brought up SCOTUS and others have said it won;t stand on appeal, which it will and only make the TSA searchs stronger legal wise.
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Yes and just because of who is on the SCOTUS doesn't mean that this is standing there. Look at another 9th Circuit Court ruling in which friggin' Rehnquist and Thomas were dissenting on restricting access to marijuana (the case was much more elaborate than this but I'm using it as a quick example).

Again, with the history of the 9th Circuit Court and its rulings going to the SCOTUS, all bets are off. Party lines can and will easily get blurred when it comes to the SCOTUS dealing with them.
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As QED pointed out above. The 9th is considered a liberal court persay. If any court would throw something out due tp privacy then it would be them. If this gets to the Republican/bush right wing controlled SC it will only be help up more.

Again when things go before the SC it is based on current law. Right now since Republicans/Bush have given more agencies more legal power to do this it will only stand up due to current law. I am not saying I agree with it but right now the laws are on the TSA's side.

 
Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski


The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Click to expand...

In this case, and this day and age, papers should mean digital files as well.
I have nothing to hide, but I don't want people rummaging through my stuff. When cops serve search warrants they trash houses and they don't have to clean it up. Any damage done is up to the victim to fix. Same goes here. IF the TSA officials are going through this guy or anyone's computer, they can delete and copy anything they want. Got naked pics of your wife, well now they do and they can't be taken back.

Anyone that is in agreement with this ruling needs to pack their crap up and move to Russia or China where this is actually legal.
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Random property searches have always been legal at border crossings-- so I don't see how you can say the 4th Amendment is applicable here. This is not a random search of some guy's laptop by police for no reason at all. This guy was at a border crossing attempting to smuggle illegal material into the US and got caught-- this has been going on for years and years.

The only reason this was over-ruled by the superior courts is that they wanted to make their numbers look good when it came to charging someone with child pornography. "Think of the children."
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You have absolutely no basis for saying this, as it simply is not true. There are dozens and dozens of cases out there where higher courts have let child molesters, rapists, and murderers go due to technical violations or supposed civil rights violations when by far the most politically expedient (and popular) thing to do would be to ignore or diminish the significance of the violations.
 
While I don't agree with the TSA's ability to search the drive, why didn't the many encrypt or password protect the folder or machine? I highly doubt the TSA would have the technical skills to get around it.
 
Originally posted by: Bateluer
While I don't agree with the TSA's ability to search the drive, why didn't the many encrypt or password protect the folder or machine? I highly doubt the TSA would have the technical skills to get around it.
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Then the issue becomes are you required to decrypt the folder, and can you be imprisoned for refusing? Is the TSA allowed to keep the property until it can be thoroughly searched? Same thing for customs.
 
Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
Originally posted by: Marlin1975
On the street then I would say no.

BUT when travling by air it is already known you and your belongingss will be opened and searched. By that alone you have little reason to believe you have any real privacy and as such the serach should be legal.
Click to expand...

What threat does data on a hard drive impose on a flight? It's not like data on my hard drive can explode.
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Seems like a lot of people are reading this as if it happened at the security checkpoint before the guy got on the plane. It happened when he was going through customs after he got off the plane. A lot of people are talking about bombs and protecting the plane - customs searches have nothing to do with that.
 
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
If they ever ask to search mine I'll be telling them where they can stick their 'safety measures'.
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Again, it's not just a safety measure. The whole point of customs is to ensure you are not bringing anything
into the country illegally. Either you think this is a good idea or not-- but you can't say with a straight face
it should be OK for them to rummage through your suitcase but not your laptop. Both can contain
contraband.
 
Originally posted by: tealk
Dang right they should be able to..Got nothing to hide, shouldn't be a problem. Just time wasted. Search mine anytime, all the time. Even if it catches one person like it did, it's worth it, and my time.
Good Job!
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Heil Hitler!

Papers, please.
 
Originally posted by: QED
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
If they ever ask to search mine I'll be telling them where they can stick their 'safety measures'.
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Again, it's not just a safety measure. The whole point of customs is to ensure you are not bringing anything
into the country illegally. Either you think this is a good idea or not-- but you can't say with a straight face
it should be OK for them to rummage through your suitcase but not your laptop. Both can contain
contraband.
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Digital content can be sent into the country 100000x easier then any physical content. So what if he had emailed them to a web based email account and they wanted to check that (based on browser history) to see if any illegal content was emailed to himself? Would that be okay with you as well since it could contain contraband data (in this case child pr0n)?
 
Originally posted by: QED
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
If they ever ask to search mine I'll be telling them where they can stick their 'safety measures'.
Click to expand...

Again, it's not just a safety measure. The whole point of customs is to ensure you are not bringing anything
into the country illegally. Either you think this is a good idea or not-- but you can't say with a straight face
it should be OK for them to rummage through your suitcase but not your laptop. Both can contain
contraband.
Click to expand...
we are talking about data that can be transmitted via the internet. i suppose you are all for the government closely monitoring all internet traffic also.
 
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
I think that Ben Franklin said it best:

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
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Ben Franklin as well as most of our founding fathers said lots of stuff best
 
Originally posted by: alien42
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
I think that Ben Franklin said it best:

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
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Ben is rolling over his grave with the current admininstration.
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He has been with every admin since Hoover.

The largest offenders being FDR and LBJ
 
I'm glad they caught the guy but I don't think the search was legal.
What if someone has company or trade secrets on the drive ?
Are they supposed to allow anyone with a badge to view the contents ?

Another question is, what if I have files that are encrypted ?
Can they make me turn over the key because of something the files might contain ?

I have client files that are privileged information that require a NDA to even view, there is no way in hell they would get me to show them the files, some of which are pictures.
 
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