US Court Upholds "Safe Space" for Florida Gun Owners

[ivwshane]

Nobody really has a major problem with doctors asking if you own guns, assuming there is a legitimate reason such as severe depression/mental illness. Most of us would even give a pass on people with small children, even though as risks go, guns are a vanishingly small threat to children. We have a really fucking major problem with doctors asking everyone if you own guns and making that part of your electronic medical record. And yes, we're fine with Big Government telling doctors what to do, which is why we aren't fighting to overturn the myriad laws and regulations that constrain doctors' practices. In this case though, Smaller Government (i.e. the state of Florida) is preventing Bigger Government (i.e. the federal government under Barack Hussein Obama, mmm mmm mmm) from violating an existing Smaller Government prohibition (i.e. compiling a registry of gun owners) while Bigger Government attempts to get this registry whilst simultaneously screaming that it doesn't want it.

"Doctor, this patient has presented with chills, body aches, lethargy and blurred vision."

"I can't possibly diagnose him - I don't even know if there are guns in his household! Damn it, nurse, I'm a doctor, not a mediciner! I need his gun status, stat!"

Yeah, that doesn't sound crazy at all.

You know your bullshit talking point was debunked, literally on the first page of this thread right?

Maybe you should read this thread and the accompanying study instead:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?p=37966426#post37966426

 

[fskimospy]

Interesting. In just four pages you have gone from "Doctors aren't experts on guns, they are experts on risks to human health, of which improperly stored guns are one."
to
"By his logic no experts on threats human health could ever exist as there's no one that could ever have such comprehensive knowledge."
and
"I would love to see him try and say "doctors aren't experts on threats to human health" to someone in a conversation and see if the other person could keep a straight face."
to
"Apparently instead of visiting a GP who identifies issues and directs us to information from experts on how to mitigate it we now go around to an individual expert on each threat we might face."

So now you have morphed from the physician as expert on risks to human health to the physician as expert knowledge help desk model. Quite a demotion for physicians in only four pages!

M-theory math could not map your twists and turns in pursuing your agenda. At your level of dishonesty, you should really put more thought into your posts. Such as, say, when you claim that Sullivan was granted relief because civil tort law comes from government. Hmm, I think there are some bakers who might want to use that argument. Or perhaps civil rights legislation comes from Proggie Klaus in your world?

Hmm, wonder where physicians might direct patients in need of information from experts on gun safety?
http://training.nra.org/nra-gun-safety-rules.aspx
http://training.nra.org/
http://www.thegunzone.com/therules.html
http://www.genesishcc.com/helpful-r...-library-resource/?chunkid=14094&lang=English
http://bethlehemrodandgun.com/Rules/NRA-Gun-Safety-BRGC-Rules.pdf
http://www.scouting.org/filestore/Outdoor Program/pdf/30931_WB.pdf
http://www.thecompoundatrockwall.com/classes/national-rifle-association/
http://www.albemarleso.org/Nhomefiresafety.html
http://www.winchester.com/learning-center/supreme/Pages/Safety-Tips-Rules.aspx
http://gun.laws.com/gun-safety
http://garrison.leavenworth.army.mil/Garrison/media/Garrison-Media-Library/DES-Firearm-Safety.pdf
http://brcv-rodgun.org/firearms-instruction/
http://www.burrocanyon.com/programs.html
http://www.texaschl.us/parent_info.htm
http://www.aaof.us/gsr.htm
https://dss.mo.gov/stat/statpres/pdfpres/gunsafety2.pdf
http://www.fcvcc.org/FC Membership App Edition 2.pdf
http://services.allegany.edu/ce/?course=VTE875

Hmm, links from NRA gun safety materials. Links from NRA gun safety training. Links from many sites citing the NRA as THE experts on gun safety. Including government sites citing the NRA as THE experts on gun safety. Including child safety sites citing the NRA as THE experts on gun safety. Including government child safety sites citing the NRA as THE experts on gun safety. That's right, the acknowledged experts on gun safety are the very people you clowns are accusing of irreparably compromising gun safety by "preventing doctors from doing their job". (e.g. Compile a list of everyone owning guns.)

Good news for doctors - you're about to be re-instated as experts in gun safety!

Linked hilarity - watch it morph before your very eyes!

Both of my quoted posts say the same thing, genius. This is pathetic.

At least you stopped trying to link to court cases you hadn't read or understood. That's progress. 🙂

 

[TheVrolok]

wait--people are actually upset that Doctors have been asking questions related to public and personal health, and they want Big Government to come in and stop them from practicing medicine?

...I thought you guys didn't want Big Government telling doctors what to do...until you do?

I am...thoroughly confused.

You can't apply logic to these people. They honestly, earnestly, believe that the government is forcing physicians to create a national gun registry so that the government can then take all their guns and enslave them. Then, of course, the only answer to this, is more legislation.

Yep.

 

[SilthDraeth]

From your first link



My father always kept his guns locked and unloaded, I also do the same thing. No one in the house knows the combination* to the safe nor can they open the pistol safe in the nightstand.

*Should I die my family can find the combinations in the safe deposit box at the bank.

Cool, so you answer the door, and get shot in the face, and your wife is like, hold on let me go to the bank, and then go back to the room. Watch the kids while I am gone please.

 

[werepossum]

Both of my quoted posts say the same thing, genius. This is pathetic.

At least you stopped trying to link to court cases you hadn't read or understood. That's progress. 🙂

Nope. You first claimed that doctors are experts on gun safety because improperly stored guns are a threat to human health. When I shot holes in that, you next claimed that doctors could direct patients to people who are experts in gun safety. Those two things are worlds apart, and literally everyone able to read English and form thoughts knows this.

 

[Zorkorist]

I didn't and don't ask Government to "be my doctor."

As a matter of fact, I want Government as far away from me as possible.

This is the proper response of a free society.

-John

 

[ivwshane]

I didn't and don't ask Government to "be my doctor."

As a matter of fact, I want Government as far away from me as possible.

This is the proper response of a free society.

-John

See, even zorkorist is against this law!

 

[Zorkorist]

I'm against most laws. 🙂

-John

 

[fskimospy]

Nope. You first claimed that doctors are experts on gun safety because improperly stored guns are a threat to human health. When I shot holes in that, you next claimed that doctors could direct patients to people who are experts in gun safety. Those two things are worlds apart, and literally everyone able to read English and form thoughts knows this.

Nope, I never said doctors were experts in gun safety. I said doctors were experts in identifying threats to human health.

You're just either really stupid or someone who lies a lot. My guess, considering how much you lie about most things is that you're a liar yet again.

You have a big issue with honesty. Look into it.

 

[werepossum]

This guy has to be one of the stupidest people on this forum and that's saying a lot. Doctors aren't experts on guns, they are experts on risks to human health, of which improperly stored guns are one.

Nope, I never said doctors were experts in gun safety. I said doctors were experts in identifying threats to human health.

You're just either really stupid or someone who lies a lot. My guess, considering how much you lie about most things is that you're a liar yet again.

You have a big issue with honesty. Look into it.

lol Let's look at what you said, then what you now claim to have said. Then each can decide.

You know you are not fooling anyone.

 

[Zorkorist]

I've noticed werepossum, is playing all sides.

Probably best to think of him as a toy.

-John

 

[fskimospy]

lol Let's look at what you said, then what you now claim to have said. Then each can decide.

You know you are not fooling anyone.

Nope. Said the same thing the whole time. This is not complicated.

It's weird that you would quote me and then try to lie about the quote.

Guess that's what happens when someone is used to lying all the time.

 

[ivwshane]

lol Let's look at what you said, then what you now claim to have said. Then each can decide.

You know you are not fooling anyone.

I read it and it appears they both say nearly the same thing. Are you feeling alright? You certainly don't seem to be yourself the last few days, have you stopped taking your medication?

 

[sandorski]

lol Let's look at what you said, then what you now claim to have said. Then each can decide.

You know you are not fooling anyone.

You appear to be fooling yourself.

 

[werepossum]

Nope. Said the same thing the whole time. This is not complicated.

It's weird that you would quote me and then try to lie about the quote.

Guess that's what happens when someone is used to lying all the time.

lol Okay, fine. Let's take you at your word, that your intention all along was to say that doctors are in fact the same level of "expert" on gun safety as, oh, literally everyone. Two questions:

First, what value is added by making gun ownership part of one's electronic medical record?

Second, what value is added by determining who owns guns, as opposed to simply making available NRA gun safety literature and bringing this to each patient's attention? That way you get every gun owner as well as every potential gun owner, without wasting any of the doctor's time. And remember, we've now established that by "expert" you mean that doctors know only what everyone knows, that unsecured guns can be dangerous to one's health.

 

[werepossum]

You appear to be fooling yourself.

How so? He started this by expressing his outrage that doctors were being prevented from doing their jobs, being experts on threats to human health of which improperly stored guns is one. He has now devolved to admitting that doctors are not in fact experts, but are experts at directing people to the actual experts. Is this an essential function? And if so, what level of doctor/patient interaction is appropriate since his position is now that doctors are simply experts on knowing that unsecured guns are dangerous (which, again, literally everyone knows) and (presumably) experts at directing patients to the actual experts on gun safety. (Sort of an experts directory or help desk.)

One wonders to what other experts doctors might direct patients, since there are many, many things that present more danger to more people than do guns.

 

[shortylickens]

What really bothers me is theres (apparently) a crapload of people who ONLY buy guns because they dont know the things are dangerous.

And if a simple conversation with a doctor is enough to deter them, then maybe they shouldnt ever own guns.

 

[fskimospy]

lol Okay, fine. Let's take you at your word, that your intention all along was to say that doctors are in fact the same level of "expert" on gun safety as, oh, literally everyone. Two questions:

Question: are you being purposefully stupid or are you desperately trying to lie your way out of something again?

Doctors are not experts on gun safety. They are experts on things that tend to endanger their patients' health. You also don't have to be an expert on gun safety to know that an unlocked gun is dangerous. Is this as close as you get to an apology?

Your stupid attempts at pedantry aside, I trust physicians to assess the risks present to each patient as they best see fit, as again they are the experts. If they want to ask that question, fine. If they don't, that's fine too. If you want to RESTRICT them from asking that question though, you better have a good reason. I haven't seen anything close to it. I do have to note the irony of small government conservatives using the power of government to dictate the doctor patient relationship.

First, what value is added by making gun ownership part of one's electronic medical record?

I have no idea as I'm not a doctor. Neither are you. Why don't you let the doctor make that decision? Wouldn't that be the smartest thing? The whole paranoid fantasy of the government coming for your guns thanks to your doctor's notes is deeply weird, by the way.

Second, what value is added by determining who owns guns, as opposed to simply making available NRA gun safety literature and bringing this to each patient's attention? That way you get every gun owner as well as every potential gun owner, without wasting any of the doctor's time. And remember, we've now established that by "expert" you mean that doctors know only what everyone knows, that unsecured guns can be dangerous to one's health.

You can't be serious. It is funny that you seem to think you know better than doctors do how they should spend their time though. Where did you do your residency? You seem to think you have a great deal of knowledge of the practice of medicine, considering how many suggestions and restrictions you want to implement.

Even ignoring your ridiculous claims of knowledge what you're saying is stupid. An unlocked gun is a serious issue. You know as well as anyone else that people pay much more attention when you directly engage them on a subject instead of just waving a pamphlet at the with a general statement. Information is rarely the problem, it's getting people to pay attention to it.

Not that I need to demonstrate any value whatsoever for my position (that burden is on you as you want to use the government to restrict people) but right there is tremendous value. Case closed. (Not that you will admit it)

 

[shady28]

What really bothers me is theres (apparently) a crapload of people who ONLY buy guns because they dont know the things are dangerous.

And if a simple conversation with a doctor is enough to deter them, then maybe they shouldnt ever own guns.

It has always bothered me that a crapload of stupid people go out and buy big SUVs and monster sized trucks and don't know that they're dangerouns.

I think doctors should be required to inform their patients of this, right after they tell them about the dangers of buying and using ladders or stools (falls are the #1 home killer), swimming pools and bathtubs (#3 home killer), and dangerous chemicals (#2 home killer).

After all, who needs big trucks and SUVs for family transport just pack light and use a civic or corolla.

And what's the harm in a little extra body order or a few roof leaks when compared to shattered lives and families that needless deaths cause.

People should just stay indoors, telecommute as much as possible, and let the professionals handle things like light bulb changes and putting a little caulk on roof leaks.

This stupidity needs to stop, people need to think of the children!

http://www.asktheodds.com/death/car-crash-odds/

Your odds of dying in a car crash, over the span of your entire life, are somewhere in between 1 and 50 and 1 and 100. When broken down on a per year basis, your odds of dying in a vehicle crash would somewhere in between 1 and 4,000 and 1 and 8,000.
...

If you drive or ride in an SUV, your odds of dying in a car crash increase. Additionally, if you’re involved in an accident in your car, with an SUV, your odds of dying increase. If driving an SUV, the chances of killing an occupant in another vehicle increase somewhere in between 2 to 6 times. SUVs are more dangerous than other vehicles due to their tendency to roll over and because of their lack of handling.

 

[fskimospy]

How so? He started this by expressing his outrage that doctors were being prevented from doing their jobs, being experts on threats to human health of which improperly stored guns is one. He has now devolved to admitting that doctors are not in fact experts, but are experts at directing people to the actual experts. Is this an essential function? And if so, what level of doctor/patient interaction is appropriate since his position is now that doctors are simply experts on knowing that unsecured guns are dangerous (which, again, literally everyone knows) and (presumably) experts at directing patients to the actual experts on gun safety. (Sort of an experts directory or help desk.)

One wonders to what other experts doctors might direct patients, since there are many, many things that present more danger to more people than do guns.

I would imagine general practitioners could be useful sources of information on any large number of similar things!

I for one am really enjoying the fact that the guy who whines about me thinking I'm the expert in everything is convinced that he knows how to practice medicine better than doctors do and that they have been wasting their time all these years.

I mean do you even realize how much of a hypocrite you are?

 

[werepossum]

I've noticed werepossum, is playing all sides.

Probably best to think of him as a toy.

-John

lol Only one side in this thread. As to ATPN as a whole, sure. No one side has a monopoly on either good ideas or on stupidity, so I'm all over the board. Plus there are some things (like health care) where my ideologically preferred solution doesn't work well.

 

[sandorski]

How so? He started this by expressing his outrage that doctors were being prevented from doing their jobs, being experts on threats to human health of which improperly stored guns is one. He has now devolved to admitting that doctors are not in fact experts, but are experts at directing people to the actual experts. Is this an essential function? And if so, what level of doctor/patient interaction is appropriate since his position is now that doctors are simply experts on knowing that unsecured guns are dangerous (which, again, literally everyone knows) and (presumably) experts at directing patients to the actual experts on gun safety. (Sort of an experts directory or help desk.)

One wonders to what other experts doctors might direct patients, since there are many, many things that present more danger to more people than do guns.

Just stop. You're just wasting everybodys page space at this point. Go re-read what he said and what You said. Then feel like a dumbshit that's been wasting time.

 

[werepossum]

Hey look! The Boy Scouts of America are practicing medicine!
http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/AdvancementandAwards/MeritBadges/mb-RIFL.aspx

Of course, Boy Scouts actually have to take specific courses to learn gun safety - unlike doctors.

 

[nickqt]

Hey look! The Boy Scouts of America are practicing medicine!
http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/AdvancementandAwards/MeritBadges/mb-RIFL.aspx

Of course, Boy Scouts actually have to take specific courses to learn gun safety - unlike doctors.

Doctors and nurses are on direct orders from Imam Barack HUSSEIN Obama to grab all of your guns, right before imposing Sharia Law on every single Wal*Mart in America.

Because doctors ask if there is a gun in the home, and whether the gun owner keeps the people he/she lives with safe by responsibly keeping the gun out of the hands of people who might accidentally shoot themselves or others.

Because guns are never used accidentally by people who shouldn't have access to them, to hurt or kill someone else, or themselves. And if they are, well god damn't, it's none of that doctor's fucking business.

Because Freedom.

Also: Benghazi.

 

[chucky2]

The mental gymnastics of advocating for medical professionals to ask questions that have nothing to do with medical matters is simply amazing in this thread. One can only imagine if we had med staffs asking everyone about their immigration status what the outcry would be. LOL@GunGrabbers...any and every way to get that mm towards the mile of gun grab...