US auto industry gets a kick in the groin from Barak - speaking at their doorstep

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: Vic
What's next? Blaming drug dealers for drug demand? Oh wait, that's already been done. :roll:

Seriously, I find it hard to blame the manufacturers for catering to the public's demands. I specifically dislike this blaming Detroit only, while Japan keeps trying to break into the big truck and SUV market.

Obama went down a few notches in my book with this display of unchecked populism. The blame game might win votes from the unwashed masses, but it doesn't solve problems.

I would somewhat agree with this had we have already not seen what type of marketing there is. Not to mention the type of lobbying there is in order to support fuel standards that are favorable to SUVs.

 

[iamwiz82]

Companies will build what people demand. If the price of gas skyrockets, small cars will come into favor and trucks/SUVs will die down. This isn't the fault of American automakers. 3 of the top 4 vehicles are trucks. That is a huge chunk of the market and it's something the domestics do well.

 

[sandorski]

Evolution at work.

European/Japanese Automakers perfected smaller vehicles out of necessity. Now circumstances favour smaller vehicles over larger ones. Those(US Automakers) without the need never bothered, now people don't want their larger vehicles.

This has been happening since the 1970's and didn't happen overnight. So it's not like the US automakers were unaware of what was going down.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
I would somewhat agree with this had we have already not seen what type of marketing there is. Not to mention the type of lobbying there is in order to support fuel standards that are favorable to SUVs.

Well yeah, of course. The public was paying huge premiums to buy into an SUV. They were status symbols. In the meantime, fuel-efficient models had to be sold at losses just so the manufacturer could meet existing CAFE standards. You're a finance guy, do the math.

 

[FeuerFrei]

If there's such a huge global demand for fuel efficient vehicles then just let the market do its thing, auto manufacturers will follow the money. No need for any government mandates.

Just because you have a hard on for fuel efficiency doesn't mean you have to screw with the industry.
There are other ways to decrease oil dependence and increase oil supply as well.

 

[bcterps]

It's nice to talk about fuel efficiency so he can dodge the real issue why US automakers are suffering, high labor costs (unions). Of course, Obama would never actually come out and say something like that, because that would take real guts, and cost him real votes.

 

[LegendKiller]

Personally, I think that a $3 tax/gallon should be implemented. Shove everything into alt fuel research and fusion research superfunds. SUV usage would drop like a rock.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: sandorski
Evolution at work.

European/Japanese Automakers perfected smaller vehicles out of necessity. Now circumstances favour smaller vehicles over larger ones. Those(US Automakers) without the need never bothered, now people don't want their larger vehicles.

This has been happening since the 1970's and didn't happen overnight. So it's not like the US automakers were unaware of what was going down.

You know that the US automakers do make quality smaller vehicles, right? Ones that happen to be very popular abroad? This really isn't the '70s, it's just some people are still stuck in that groove. Now go buy yourself a Mazda3 and tell yourself that it isn't a Ford Focus. 😛

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: iamwiz82
Companies will build what people demand. If the price of gas skyrockets, small cars will come into favor and trucks/SUVs will die down. This isn't the fault of American automakers. 3 of the top 4 vehicles are trucks. That is a huge chunk of the market and it's something the domestics do well.

The trouble with that logic is that it is completely reactionary. By then it will likely be too little too late.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: PingSpike
I don't think making gasoline engines more fuel efficient is really a solution to anything...its more like a bandage that will slow a gushing wound. Biodiesel grown from sea algae, accelerated by tax incentives and a raised gasoline tax would solve the problem. No need to replace the distribution network and diesel engines are hardly a new unproven technology. Grow it in tanks of sea water on desert land in the American southwest, doesn't use land used for food production or fresh water used elsewhere. Its renewable, and doesn't fund unstable governments in the middle east that hate us.

But the government will probably just continue with the stupid ideas of corn based fuels, hybrid cars and hydrogen cars while this easy all encompassing solution goes ignored since it lacks and lobbying groups.

You know, this idea would work great, what we do is dig a channel from the ocean to Death Valley or the Grand Canyon. As those fill up, sea levels will fall, thus saving the coasts from rising sea levels. This would also create new beach front property thus bringing in more tax money when that land is developed and used.

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: sandorski
Evolution at work.

European/Japanese Automakers perfected smaller vehicles out of necessity. Now circumstances favour smaller vehicles over larger ones. Those(US Automakers) without the need never bothered, now people don't want their larger vehicles.

This has been happening since the 1970's and didn't happen overnight. So it's not like the US automakers were unaware of what was going down.

You know that the US automakers do make quality smaller vehicles, right? Ones that happen to be very popular abroad? This really isn't the '70s, it's just some people are still stuck in that groove. Now go buy yourself a Mazda3 and tell yourself that it isn't a Ford Focus. 😛

Euro Focus is no where close to the US Focus. The Euro Focus is the one that shares platforms with the Mazda3.

A better example would be the Fusion and Mazda 6.

🙂

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Personally, I think that a $3 tax/gallon should be implemented. Shove everything into alt fuel research and fusion research superfunds. SUV usage would drop like a rock.

And the poor wouldn't even be able to afford to ride the bus. WTF.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Personally, I think that a $3 tax/gallon should be implemented. Shove everything into alt fuel research and fusion research superfunds. SUV usage would drop like a rock.

And the poor wouldn't even be able to afford to ride the bus. WTF.

Ohh, certain exceptions would be made. Provided your vehicle was used for commercial purposes, verified and tracked. Small businesses would get the benefit also. Sure, it'd increase yet another government side, but it'd reduce our dependence pretty fekkin quickly.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: vi_edit

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: sandorski
Evolution at work.

European/Japanese Automakers perfected smaller vehicles out of necessity. Now circumstances favour smaller vehicles over larger ones. Those(US Automakers) without the need never bothered, now people don't want their larger vehicles.

This has been happening since the 1970's and didn't happen overnight. So it's not like the US automakers were unaware of what was going down.

You know that the US automakers do make quality smaller vehicles, right? Ones that happen to be very popular abroad? This really isn't the '70s, it's just some people are still stuck in that groove. Now go buy yourself a Mazda3 and tell yourself that it isn't a Ford Focus. 😛

Euro Focus is no where close to the US Focus.

A better example would be the Fusion and Mazda 6.

🙂

It's still a Focus. That was my point. It's just the one that's sold in Europe (where it is quite popular BTW). Or you could buy a Volvo S40. Same thing.

Or the Saturn Aura is an Opel Vectra. Or a Chevy Cobalt is an Opel Astra.

But oh no, the domestics don't know how to make small cars! Sorry, it's not that they don't know how, it's that small cars don't move off the lots in the US. For years, manufacturers have had to sell them at a loss just to make CAFE.

 

[Ktulu]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: clamum

Originally posted by: DougK62
He actually believes that foreign cars are more fuel efficient than the domestic brands? LOL

I thought they were too. Top Japanese fuel efficient cars vs. top American? Top 10 current most fuel efficient? I'm guessing it's gonna favor foreign.

You'd be wrong. Class for class, horsepower for horsepower, displacement for displacement, weight for weight, GM makes the most fuel efficient vehicles in the world. I can say this and I don't even like GM. Their management and design depts suck beyond all reckoning, but you gotta give it up for their engineering.

QFT.

What's hurting the domestics is the inability to offer a high mileage compact vehicle, something in the 40+mpg range. Other than that they are very competitive when it comes to fuel economy. Obama is just regurgitating what other no-nothing critics have already said before to give himself a "green" image.

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: Turin39789
P & N --------->

<------------it's that way n00b!:laugh:

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: sandorski
Evolution at work.

European/Japanese Automakers perfected smaller vehicles out of necessity. Now circumstances favour smaller vehicles over larger ones. Those(US Automakers) without the need never bothered, now people don't want their larger vehicles.

This has been happening since the 1970's and didn't happen overnight. So it's not like the US automakers were unaware of what was going down.

You know that the US automakers do make quality smaller vehicles, right? Ones that happen to be very popular abroad? This really isn't the '70s, it's just some people are still stuck in that groove. Now go buy yourself a Mazda3 and tell yourself that it isn't a Ford Focus. 😛

Doesn't really matter. The Foreign Automakers have full lineups of smaller vehicles. The US Automakers got a few "me too" smaller vehicles.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Personally, I think that a $3 tax/gallon should be implemented. Shove everything into alt fuel research and fusion research superfunds. SUV usage would drop like a rock.

And the poor wouldn't even be able to afford to ride the bus. WTF.

Ohh, certain exceptions would be made. Provided your vehicle was used for commercial purposes, verified and tracked. Small businesses would get the benefit also. Sure, it'd increase yet another government side, but it'd reduce our dependence pretty fekkin quickly.

Dependence will be reduced when we develop something cheaper and as reliable.

Sometimes I don't know what to make of you, LK. I figured you smarter than to fall for bell-the-cat type legislation ideas. If there was an easy fix to our oil dependence problem, I guarantee you that some smart guy would have already made himself richer than Bill Gates doing it.

 

[Ktulu]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: sandorski
Evolution at work.

European/Japanese Automakers perfected smaller vehicles out of necessity. Now circumstances favour smaller vehicles over larger ones. Those(US Automakers) without the need never bothered, now people don't want their larger vehicles.

This has been happening since the 1970's and didn't happen overnight. So it's not like the US automakers were unaware of what was going down.

You know that the US automakers do make quality smaller vehicles, right? Ones that happen to be very popular abroad? This really isn't the '70s, it's just some people are still stuck in that groove. Now go buy yourself a Mazda3 and tell yourself that it isn't a Ford Focus. 😛

Doesn't really matter. The Foreign Automakers have full lineups of smaller vehicles. The US Automakers got a few "me too" smaller vehicles.

So they're aren't allowed to make small vehicles all of a sudden? They've been making small fuel efficient vehicles for decades. 😕

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Personally, I think that a $3 tax/gallon should be implemented. Shove everything into alt fuel research and fusion research superfunds. SUV usage would drop like a rock.

And the poor wouldn't even be able to afford to ride the bus. WTF.

Ohh, certain exceptions would be made. Provided your vehicle was used for commercial purposes, verified and tracked. Small businesses would get the benefit also. Sure, it'd increase yet another government side, but it'd reduce our dependence pretty fekkin quickly.

Dependence will be reduced when we develop something cheaper and as reliable.

Sometimes I don't know what to make of you, LK. I figured you smarter than to fall for bell-the-cat type legislation ideas. If there was an easy fix to our oil dependence problem, I guarantee you that some smart guy would have already made himself richer than Bill Gates doing it.

When will that be? When it's all gone anyway? The money isn't in looking for a better alternative, thats why it isn't really being done all that vigorously. Pretty short-sighted of most people but that's the way it is.

 

[JS80]

I think GM/Ford should offer a CEO spot to Obama. Let's see how he does. I'd put my life savings on bankruptcy within 5 years.

 

[ColdFusion718]

I keep calling this guy "Osama" by mistake everytime. 😱

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: sandorski
Evolution at work.

European/Japanese Automakers perfected smaller vehicles out of necessity. Now circumstances favour smaller vehicles over larger ones. Those(US Automakers) without the need never bothered, now people don't want their larger vehicles.

This has been happening since the 1970's and didn't happen overnight. So it's not like the US automakers were unaware of what was going down.

You know that the US automakers do make quality smaller vehicles, right? Ones that happen to be very popular abroad? This really isn't the '70s, it's just some people are still stuck in that groove. Now go buy yourself a Mazda3 and tell yourself that it isn't a Ford Focus. 😛

Doesn't really matter. The Foreign Automakers have full lineups of smaller vehicles. The US Automakers got a few "me too" smaller vehicles.

No. The US automakers have a full lineup of small vehicles. Seriously. Take off the blinders. GM has the Aveo and Ford is likely to bring the Fiesta back to the USDM (they never stopped selling it abroad) with the next generation.

And nobody has sold a 40+ mpg gasoline-only car in the US since the early 90's. Nobody. Well... unless you want to count the Smart car that just recently came stateside, and Chrysler is selling that.

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: sandorski
Evolution at work.

European/Japanese Automakers perfected smaller vehicles out of necessity. Now circumstances favour smaller vehicles over larger ones. Those(US Automakers) without the need never bothered, now people don't want their larger vehicles.

This has been happening since the 1970's and didn't happen overnight. So it's not like the US automakers were unaware of what was going down.

You know that the US automakers do make quality smaller vehicles, right? Ones that happen to be very popular abroad? This really isn't the '70s, it's just some people are still stuck in that groove. Now go buy yourself a Mazda3 and tell yourself that it isn't a Ford Focus. 😛

Doesn't really matter. The Foreign Automakers have full lineups of smaller vehicles. The US Automakers got a few "me too" smaller vehicles.

No. The US automakers have a full lineup of small vehicles. Seriously. Take off the blinders. GM has the Aveo and Ford is likely to bring the Fiesta back to the USDM (they never stopped selling it abroad) with the next generation.

And nobody has sold a 40+ mpg gasoline-only car in the US since the early 90's. Nobody. Well... unless you want to count the Smart car that just recently came stateside, and Chrysler is selling that.

So the Civic's 40MPG(highway) doesn't count?

 

[vi edit]

Or the corolla?