UPS Question

[avenqer]

Hello,

house wiring is questionable even though outlets are wired correctly, I'm concerned about shortages, and brownouts, let alone surges and blackouts. So I have become curious about a backup battery but I need something that is also going to keep things regulated if ANYTHING causes the wall power to undercharge or spike.

Can some one suggest a UPS that will work for a PC&C 510 SLI power supply (I think its 600W max) I dont really need a long operation after blackout more than I need something to regulate the power so that its clean and regulated going to the PSU. (But a little backup power would be nice.

Thanks

P.S. I am confused as to what kind to get mV wise. A site said that take the UPS mV rating and get 60% of that to get the mV you need. But I dont want to get a 1000mV and find out that I just made a space heater instead of what I want/need it to really do.

Thanks, hope you can clear this up for me.

 

[Zepper]

You will want as a minimum what's called a line-interactive backup. The APC Smart UPS series for example. If you go to their web site http://www.apc.com , you can use their estimator to determine what you need. A device like the Seasonic Power Angel (newegg) or the P3 Kill A Watt (ebay) could tell you what you are actually using in terms of power (my 350W PSU would usually be drawing about 150 Watts from the AC outlet and my whole system uses less than 200W total) so you could better specify a backup unit.
. Best Power used to make a backup called the Ferrups that was one of the best power conditioners as well as backup - but they merged with some other makers and I forget the new name. The Ferrups wasn't cheap either. A lot of grocery store chains used big Best Power units to backup the register lines. I remember now - http://www.powerware.com . They also have a UPS selector to help you choose the right one.

.bh.

 

[CalvinHobbs]

get yourself a 600VA UPS buddy..that should give you about fifteens mins backup time

 

[Blain]

750VA and 1170 joules for about $70 shipped! :laugh:
I really like these Tripplites. I've got one for my PC and another one for my VCR. I hate resetting the thing.
APC's are good also, but offer less joules of protection.

 

[TwoBills]

Just make sure you get a ups and not a sps. Some of the cheaper ones are sps. Standby power supplies run your rig w/direct ac and switch to inverted power when needed, while uninterupted power supplies run constant inverted power.

 

[avenqer]

Thanks!

I wish that their calcs would update for video cards and processors, unless the opteron is the same wattage as a Athlon 64...

Same issue with APC

 

[avenqer]

The online, sine-wave UPS can handle frequency and voltage shifts, whereas some line-interactive units can't. It is good for all types of power problems, including power surges, voltage spikes, brownouts, blackouts and line noise.

well, I know what type I need now... now I need to make sure I have enough for my PSU and system.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Also it is Uninteruptable Power Supply, not Unlimited

-Kevin

 

[avenqer]

ok... maybe i dont...

pure sine wave?
simulated sine wave?

whats the difference?

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: TwoBills
Just make sure you get a ups and not a sps. Some of the cheaper ones are sps. Standby power supplies run your rig w/direct ac and switch to inverted power when needed, while uninterupted power supplies run constant inverted power.

I've not actually seen a real UPS for sale anywhere yet - at least as far as I know, the consumer grade UPSes you see are actually SPSes. They all *click* when the power goes on or off. Why? Because a real UPS is expensive to make - it needs a 120VAC -> 12VDC convertor that can handle the load of a computer, not just a battery charger and a small circuit board.

ok... maybe i dont...

pure sine wave?
simulated sine wave?

whats the difference?

Link - scroll down a few paragraphs.
Inverters use simulated sine wave output because it's easier to do, and therefore cheaper, than putting out a very close approximation - "pure" - that's why if you check Newegg for a Pure Sine Wave UPS, you'll find that they're more expensive than simulated sine wave models of comparable output.
Electronics like computers are better at handling simulated sine wave output that other appliances because they have so much power filtration between the components and the wall socket. Motors, run directly off of simulated sine wave power can overheat, or maybe not work at all.


I've had good experiences with Cyberpower UPSes. Yes, the name doesn't really inspire confidence in me either, but they seem to be decent units. I own a 1250AVR and an 1100AVR; my dad's PC uses an 800AVR. The AVR means automatic voltage regulation; it seems that they have some kind of line conditioning built into them too. Their utility lets you monitor for power outages, set the output voltage when on battery power, and adjust the threshold for when the UPS switches to battery backup, both from undervoltage and overvoltage. And you can set the software's time limit after power failure until it shuts down your PC. I imagine that a lot of UPSes with monitoring software can do this though; it's just that the Cyberpower units marked the first time I hooked a UPS's data port to my PC.

 

[Zepper]

True full-time UPS is much more expensive than a line-interactive unit and won't give you that much more value unless your AC power is truly terrible. Line interactive will correct voltages over a wide range without switching to battery. True sine wave output is important if you have to run something with an AC synchronous motor in it like a wall clock. Otherwise unimportant but nice to have. All of the big companies (Tripp-Lite, APC, Powerware) make all 3 types: backup, line-interactive and true UPS. A 700 or 800VA (400-500 Watt capacity) unit should be plenty for you unless you want a longer run time. All you should really hook to it is your CPU, monitor, any external modems, and cordless telephone system or other ac powered telephone or answering machine.
.bh.

 

[avenqer]

so... thank you all for your answers.

Just to ask to make sure I got this

A "line-interactive", simulated sine wave" will be sufficent just dont plug a clock to it (including a digital clock? Just curious on that part), or anything that runs on a motor?

an 800vA will run everything fine. Will a 1000-1500 cause any problems? or will the battery just make the computer, or whatever is plugged into it, run longer?

Thanks again

 

[Zepper]

Only old fashioned clocks that have an AC synchronous motor need true sine wave. Digital clocks run on DC. Ink jet printers have motors, but they are all DC motors. But in general you don't plug your printer into the UPS especially not a laser printer or copy machine.

.bh.

:moon:

 

[WackyDan]

Originally posted by: avenqer
so... thank you all for your answers.

Just to ask to make sure I got this

A "line-interactive", simulated sine wave" will be sufficent just dont plug a clock to it (including a digital clock? Just curious on that part), or anything that runs on a motor?

an 800vA will run everything fine. Will a 1000-1500 cause any problems? or will the battery just make the computer, or whatever is plugged into it, run longer?

Thanks again

a 1000-1500 will run longer under battery but also typically can handle higher wattage draw on them.

I have an APC UPS 1500 At one point, I had a PIII, and P4, as well a 19" and 15" crt plugged into it. THe highest draw I ever had on it was 400 watts and it can handle 865 watts. Since I've been running a ups with voltage regulation built in, my cpu doesn't lock up... much more stable system.

 

[halfadder]

If you have a good local battery supplier, consider buying a SmartUPS 3000 or SmartUPS 5000 on eBay and have the seller keep the batteries (they're probably old and worn awayway).

 

[JimPhelpsMI]

Hi, USP stands for Uninterruptable not Unlimited. Most UPS's connect the output plugs to the wall outlet when there is power. I'm not sure about all, but most do nothing for you until the power goes off. Jim

 

[Ike0069]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Also it is Uninteruptable Power Supply, not Unlimited

-Kevin

Damn, I wanted to say that...

 

[sharkeeper]

Ferrups, MG Set, ISO+UPS, etc.

Very expensive!

Get a Sola ISO (look on ebay - they're called conditioners by some) and put it in FRONT of everything. Then get your typical cheap APC crapp-o stuff you find at B&M and you should be all set.

MAKE SURE YOU HAVE A GOOD EARTH GROUND!

 

[avenqer]

Inof I got from APC on email reply...

Thank to all for replies again!

"I appreciate your patience in this matter. A "Simulated" sine wave
is what we would call a stepped approximated wave. It is square in
shape versus a round wave. Essentially a pure sine wave is the type of
power you receive from a wall outlet. A stepped approximated wave is a
simulated wave shape that smaller UPS units will produce when they are on
battery. This type of wave shape is generally accepted by most computer
power supplies. For higher end computers and servers or high end
electronics and home theater systems, we would only recommend a Smart-UPS 750
or higher because they output a pure sine wave when on battery."

 

[Baked]

I had no idea Dual G5 draws so much power. I just bought a Belkin 550VA, 330W, 890 Joules. I hooked up the Dual G5 2.0 w/ 20" Cinema, Bulldog tells me the load is 132%! WTF? I hooked up a iMac G5 17" to it, only 32% load. Gonna order the Belkin 1100VA, 640W, 1080 Joules today and see what happens. 1100VA is 2x the price of 550VA.

 

[Zepper]

Belkin exists for the sole purpose of helping the big-box stores make a profit (huge margins on their stuff). I would not buy any critical component with the Belkin brand...
.bh.

 

[sharkeeper]

Flywheel baby!

 

[Baked]

Originally posted by: Zepper
Belkin exists for the sole purpose of helping the big-box stores make a profit (huge margins on their stuff). I would not buy any critical component with the Belkin brand...
.bh.

The same can be said about APC. In fact, their UPSs are more expensive than what Belkin offers.

 

[Zepper]

Open up one supposedly comparable unit of each (APC and Belkin or Tripp-Lite and Belkin) side by side and you'll see where your extra money for the APC or Tripp is...

.bh.

 

[Zepper]

120kW for 20sec, eh? My main system would need something bigger <BSEG>.

.bh.