UPS/Line Conditioning For HTPC

olds

Elite Member
Mar 3, 2000
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I have a surge protector on my home theater. When I have a drop or surge (power is not real consistent here), it shuts off to protect my components. One of those components is a HTPC which I then have to restart.

I assume need a UPS solution. Do they also act as line conditioners?
 

velillen

Platinum Member
Jul 12, 2006
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I assume need a UPS solution. Do they also act as line conditioners?

No most cheaper ones do not act as line conditioners. Also one thing to consider is some are true sine wave and some are square waves. it also depends how long you need the battery to last.

You can also get models with usb or serial ports that hook to the htpc and can then turn the htpc off once power get low.

You really need to determine 1) how much you are willing to spend and B) how long of battery protection do you want.



i got one of the APC S15's for 299 from vanns when they had them for awhile. it works perfect for my server. (not what i bought it for but works wonders) Power can go out and it just keeps chugging along. Once battery gets down to 10% or so it sends a signal to the server (unraid) which then shutdowns the server safely.

i also got a cheap cyberpower one that has like ~5 minutes battery time. I mostly just wanted one with surge protection as well as having a nice way for if power flickers it wont shut off right away.
 
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NutBucket

Lifer
Aug 30, 2000
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True sine is pretty useless for modern electronics anyway since its all rectified to DC power anyway. Certainly makes zero difference for any computer.

Anything over $100 is overkill for a home PC IMHO. Just stick with a decent brand and you'll be fine. APC or Tripp-Lite are my preference although I do have a Belkin in use for my router/modem/NAS that's been fine for many years.
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
100,266
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and remember you can replace the battery in a ups relatively painlessly and you don't need to get the battery from the ups maker.
 

olds

Elite Member
Mar 3, 2000
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I want to spend about $100.
Having the unit shut off the computer is less of a concern than having it shut off during a surge or drop.

The current protector shuts off the power at a surge or drop and I have to restart the computer. Of course, this unit may just be worn out.

Looking at something like this:
http://www.amazon.com/APC-Back-UPS-B...3700873&sr=8-1

Green mode Battery failure notification
Power-saving outlets
Resettable circuit breaker
Transformer block spacing
Battery-protected and surge-only outlets
Cold-start capable Hot-swappable batteries
Disconnected battery notification
Dataline surge protection
Automatic self-test Adjustable voltage-transfer points
Adjustable voltage sensitivity
Audible alarms User-replaceable batteries
USB connectivity
Boost and trim Automatic Voltage Regulation (AVR)
Intelligent battery management
Safety-agency approved Building wiring fault indicator
Adjustable voltage sensitivity
Battery replacement without tools
LCD graphics display

21SlTA7CRbL._SL500_AA300_.jpg
 

westom

Senior member
Apr 25, 2009
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I want to spend about $100.
Having the unit shut off the computer is less of a concern than having it shut off during a surge or drop.
Scams are easily promoted when claims come without numbers. Let's put some numbers to your problem.

Ideal voltage for all electronics is when incandescent bulbs even dim to 50% intensity. How often are your bulbs dimming that much? How often is your voltage dropping that low?

Low voltage is harmful to motorized appliances. If suffering low voltage, then a refrigerator, air conditioner, dish washer, and washing machine need that low voltage solution. If voltage is not dimming bulbs that much, then power has been perfectly ideal for all electronics.

A voltage reduction is a brownout. Does not harm any electronics. Surges cause high voltage transients. If voltage is so high as to be harmful to electronics, then disconnecting (power off) is too little and much too late. Again, numbers. That existing box (or an APC UPS) takes at least tens of milliseconds to disconnect AC mains or switch to batteries. A destructive surge is done in microseconds. You could have 300 consecutive surges before those boxes did anything. So they conveniently forget to include numbers in the function list. They claim to protect from high voltages that typically are not destructive. And just forget to provide numbers that say so.

As NutBucket and velillen noted, some of the dirtiest power seen in a home comes from a UPS in battery backup mode. Some numbers for this 120 volt UPS that is called a sine wave output. 200 volt square waves with a spike of up to 270 volts. Square waves (as taught in high school mathematics) are nothing more than a sum of pure sine waves. Since they did not make the claim with numbers, then those 200 volts square waves and 270 volt spike are nothing more than sine wave output.

Meanwhile, that 270 volt spike is ideal power for any electronics. Because even 1970 international design standards defined 600 volts spikes without damage. Today’s electronics and design standards are even more robust. As others noted, the crappiest power from a UPS is made irrelevant by circuits already inside every power supply.

Low voltage is never harmful to electronics. Low voltage is harmful to motorized appliances. Transients cannot be stopped. Must be solved elsewhere by a well proven (100+ year old) solution that costs about $1 per protected appliance. And comes with companies with better reputations including Siemens, ABB, General Electric, Intermatic, Leviton, Cutler-Hammer, and Square D.

First identify the anomaly to be solved. For example, how much are your incandescent bulbs dimming. Better solutions are available only after each anomaly is first defined. No magic box exists to solve all. But when making arbitrary (qualitative; not quantitative) claims in a sales brochure, then they can even claim protection from sunspots.

The UPS has only one useful function once we include numbers To provide temporary and 'dirty' power during a blackout. Otherwise connects electronics directly to AC mains where power is 'cleanest'.

First define each anomaly. Different solutions exist for each. For example, how many seconds do your bulbs dimmed to 50% intensity.
 
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bud--

Member
Nov 2, 2011
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Ideal voltage for all electronics is when incandescent bulbs even dim to 50% intensity. How often are your bulbs dimming that much? How often is your voltage dropping that low?

If voltage is not dimming bulbs that much, then power has been perfectly ideal for all electronics.

So TVs operate well on 50% voltage?

Surges cause high voltage transients.

Surges are high voltage transients.

The best information on surges and surge protection I have seen is at:
http://www.lightningsafety.com/nlsi_lhm/IEEE_Guide.pdf
- How to protect your house and its contents from lightning: IEEE guide for surge protection of equipment connected to AC power and communication circuits published by the IEEE in 2005 .
And also:
http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/practiceguides/surgesfnl.pdf
- NIST recommended practice guide: Surges Happen!: how to protect the appliances in your home published by the US National Institute of Standards and Technology in 2001

The IEEE guide is aimed at those with some technical background. The NIST guide is aimed at the unwashed masses.

If voltage is so high as to be harmful to electronics, then disconnecting (power off) is too little and much too late. Again, numbers. That existing box (or an APC UPS) takes at least tens of milliseconds to disconnect AC mains or switch to batteries. A destructive surge is done in microseconds. You could have 300 consecutive surges before those boxes did anything.

How fortunate that surge protection does not work by disconnecting.

Others have covered using UPSs for voltage drop.

They claim to protect from high voltages that typically are not destructive. And just forget to provide numbers that say so.

Westom ignores the numbers that are provided by competent manufacturers.

And comes with companies with better reputations including Siemens, ABB, General Electric, Intermatic, Leviton, Cutler-Hammer, and Square D.

It is the usual westom screed that plug-in protectors don't work, but more restrained than usual.

Westom believes that surge protection can only be provided ty service panel protectors made by his companies with better reputations. But all of them except SquareD also make plug-in protectors and say they are effective. SquareD says for their best service panel protector -electronic equipment may need additional protection by installing plug-in [protectors] at the point of use-.

The UPS has only one useful function once we include numbers To provide temporary and 'dirty' power during a blackout. Otherwise connects electronics directly to AC mains where power is 'cleanest'.

UPSs probably always include the same type of protection that is in plug-in protectors.

Both the IEEE and NIST surge guides say plug-in protectors are effective.

Higher ratings are more readily available in plug-in protectors. Any surge protection in the US should be listed under UL1449 (some UPSs don't seem to be).