UPS - important?

[westom]

How often do you have to replace the batteries or entire UPS units?

A UPS is typically made as cheap as possible. Battery life expectancy is three years. Even my car's battery, used every day and constantly in temperature extremes, last seven or more years.

UPS claims surge protection. Then view specification numbers. At hundreds of joules, it is near zero protection. Especially when surges that typically do damage are hundreds of thousands of joules. Even power strip protectors typically claim to absorb more joules.

Getting hearsay to recommend a UPS for surge protection increases sales. But as others so accurately noted, no failures even without a UPS. Electronics are typically more robust.

More myths fear daily surges and sags. Another claim made without numbers - typical of urban myths successfully promoted by advertising. Again those numbers. Normal voltage for all computers is even when voltage drops so low that incandescent bulbs dim to 40% intensity. Normal voltage that causes no additional strain. How often do your bulbs dim that much? Never? Because sags are quite rare as well as not destructive.

Another popular myth is a 'hard poweroff'. Normal power off is just as 'hard'. If power off causes damage, then one will also cite the component put at risk. An engineer who was designing supplies even 40 years ago knows better. Suddenly power offs are just as destructive as other power offs. Most hardware failures are due to manufacturing defects; not power cycling.

Best protection adjacent to electronics is already inside electronics. Your concern is a rare surge that might overwhelm that protection. That typically occurs maybe once every seven years. Only solution that averts this other and destructive surge is proper earthing and a 'whole house' protector.

UPS is temporary and 'dirty' power so that unsaved data is not lost during a blackout. How 'dirty'? My 120 volt sine wave UPS outputs 200 volt square waves with spikes as much as 270 volts. Why is that ideal for electronics? Because electronics already contain superior protection that even makes 'dirty' UPS power irrelevant and sufficient. Note which answers include hard numbers.

UPS is for protecting unsaved data. No numbers were posted that claim hardware protection. Even the manufacture makes no such protection claims. Numbers often show a power strip absorbs more joules than a UPS; is superior protection. 'Dirtiest' power seen by electronics often comes from a UPS in battery backup mode. A UPS often claims to absorb less joules than a power strip. In short, a UPS is for protecting unsaved data.

A power strip also does not claim to protect from typically destructive surges. Since protection already inside electronics is so robust. To protect from surges sometimes so destructive as to even damage a protector, well, for over 100 years the solution has been proper earthing of a 'whole house' protector. This superior and less expensive solution is routinely found in any facility that cannot have damage.

What is necessary to protect power strip protectors? Proper earthing of one 'whole house' protector means hundreds of thousands of joules are not all but invited destructively inside the building. To even protect hundreds of joules in a UPS or a power strip protector.

 

[Scarpozzi]

A UPS is typically made as cheap as possible. Battery life expectancy is three years. Even my car's battery, used every day and constantly in temperature extremes, last seven or more years.

UPS claims surge protection. Then view specification numbers. At hundreds of joules, it is near zero protection. Especially when surges that typically do damage are hundreds of thousands of joules. Even power strip protectors typically claim to absorb more joules.

Getting hearsay to recommend a UPS for surge protection increases sales. But as others so accurately noted, no failures even without a UPS. Electronics are typically more robust.

More myths fear daily surges and sags. Another claim made without numbers - typical of urban myths successfully promoted by advertising. Again those numbers. Normal voltage for all computers is even when voltage drops so low that incandescent bulbs dim to 40% intensity. Normal voltage that causes no additional strain. How often do your bulbs dim that much? Never? Because sags are quite rare as well as not destructive.

Another popular myth is a 'hard poweroff'. Normal power off is just as 'hard'. If power off causes damage, then one will also cite the component put at risk. An engineer who was designing supplies even 40 years ago knows better. Suddenly power offs are just as destructive as other power offs. Most hardware failures are due to manufacturing defects; not power cycling.

Best protection adjacent to electronics is already inside electronics. Your concern is a rare surge that might overwhelm that protection. That typically occurs maybe once every seven years. Only solution that averts this other and destructive surge is proper earthing and a 'whole house' protector.

UPS is temporary and 'dirty' power so that unsaved data is not lost during a blackout. How 'dirty'? My 120 volt sine wave UPS outputs 200 volt square waves with spikes as much as 270 volts. Why is that ideal for electronics? Because electronics already contain superior protection that even makes 'dirty' UPS power irrelevant and sufficient. Note which answers include hard numbers.

UPS is for protecting unsaved data. No numbers were posted that claim hardware protection. Even the manufacture makes no such protection claims. Numbers often show a power strip absorbs more joules than a UPS; is superior protection. 'Dirtiest' power seen by electronics often comes from a UPS in battery backup mode. A UPS often claims to absorb less joules than a power strip. In short, a UPS is for protecting unsaved data.

A power strip also does not claim to protect from typically destructive surges. Since protection already inside electronics is so robust. To protect from surges sometimes so destructive as to even damage a protector, well, for over 100 years the solution has been proper earthing of a 'whole house' protector. This superior and less expensive solution is routinely found in any facility that cannot have damage.

What is necessary to protect power strip protectors? Proper earthing of one 'whole house' protector means hundreds of thousands of joules are not all but invited destructively inside the building. To even protect hundreds of joules in a UPS or a power strip protector.

All good stuff. The only thing I can add is that a hard poweroff in a RAID environment without a battery-backed up RAID controller (could think of it as an internal UPS) to save write cache can result in lost data. That's when having a graceful shutdown can be better than just flipping the switch. I've had only one or two Operating Systems not recover from a hard shutdown. In both cases they were due to kernel corruption (and in both cases it was a Windows kernel)...

In the US, lightning is more destructive than anything. I've only seen it affect 1 installation directly in my 15 years of work. A building took a strike and it wiped out a rack of Cisco equipment...along with some PCs. It could have been worse if the strike had hit one building over.

Surge suppression could be called a junk science. Most small UPS systems run in active/standby mode. They don't trip until the power is disrupted and within a millisecond, they flip from charging to discharging mode....kind of like the transfer switch on a generator. When not in discharging mode, you have little control over small or moderate spikes in power...but at least the UPS will protect you from brown outs.

Luckily, most equipment we use runs off DC anyhow, so the power is conditioned again through a transformer. Power supplies are more likely to suffer than circuitry if they get hit (if you're lucky).

 

[westom]

Luckily, most equipment we use runs off DC anyhow, so the power is conditioned again through a transformer. Power supplies are more likely to suffer than circuitry if they get hit (if you're lucky).

In many cases of transient damage, superior protection already inside the power supply was bypassed. That problem is created by adjacent protectors. It can connect a surge current directly into the motherboard; bypassing protection inside a PSU. Often damaged is not the PSU. Often damaged is what exists as an outgoing surge path (ie NIC, modem, HDMI port, USB printer port, etc).

 

[imagoon]

Sigh, more Westom half truths. Not going to start those arguments again as there are plenty of threads where much of that post is torn a part and backed up with actual science.

Simple facts: UPS is designed to provide power during power irregularities. They all vary in type, size and cost. If you as an end user buy a $900 PC then decide to buy a $40 UPS you get: "120 volt sine wave UPS outputs 200 volt square waves with spikes as much as 270 volts." This is not true of all the devices. We get alerts for spikes in our 208V 3∅ panels fed by our UPS units. Anything above 240V 3∅ will cause a system failover. This has never happened, ever, in the entire years of logs in the logging system. This entire system is "true sine wave" which on the scope looks like 240 step modified sign wave. This is run through the transformer stages anyway which cleans that up to better than utility power.

Will all this stuff protect us 100%? Nope that is what insurance is for. Ground surges are a bitch after all (lightning strikes, esp to buildings can cause "Earth" to vary wildly during the strike and there isn't much to be done about that.

All of this stuff is there because a full hard down would result in a lot of damage. SAN's with 6-14GB of write cache in flight lost in a hard down would wreck a week for example. Local caches, in flight data all being lost would not make for a good day. Last time we needed to do a full power down it was 6 hours going down and about 8 hours on the way back up.

(If it isn't obvious, we don't use $40 UPS and power resilience systems)

 

[westom]

If you as an end user buy a $900 PC then decide to buy a $40 UPS you get: "120 volt sine wave UPS outputs 200 volt square waves with spikes as much as 270 volts." This is not true of all the devices.

Completely irrelevant is a UPS that costs $tens of thousands. With batteries that may last almost 20 years. Such systems do more than data protection. That completely different device with a same name is not discussed here. A completely different device, discussed here, has a battery life expectancy of three years.

Does not matter if only some UPSes output 270 volt spikes. A UPS, 200 volt square waves with 270 volt spikes, is ideal power due to protection routinely found inside all electronics. The point - completely missed - is that electronics are so robust as to make 'dirtiest' power even from a UPS into cleanest and ideal power. A UPS is for blackouts - to protect unsaved data. Clean power is best achieved elsewhere - inside electronics.

Nobody said anything about 100% protection. In fact a well proven 'whole house' solution is even defined by IEEE numbers. It only does 99.5% to 99.9% of the protection. Not 100% protection. Facilities that cannot have damage upgrade their earthing rather than spend more on an insurance policy. Since a properly earthed 'whole house' solution has been well understood and proven even 100 years ago. That missing solution explains why homeowners suffer damage.

Ground surges are a bitch when a computer server facility does not learn how to install, upgrade, or maintain proven protection. A case study demonstrates same in a Nebraska radio station. Engineers were so ill informed about earthing as to actually make surge damage easier. A case study discusses everything done to avert future surge damage. Entire solution was fixing the most important component in any surge protection system: earth ground.
http://www.copper.org/applications/electrical/pq/casestudy/nebraska.html

Bottom line for the OP: UPS is temporary and 'dirty' power so that unsaved data can be saved. UPS does not do and does not claim to do hardware protection. Hardware protection means a properly earth a 'whole house' solution that may cost about $1 per protected appliance. Different anomalies require different solutions. UPS, with a life expectancy of three years, is for data protection.

 

[thedosbox]

All good stuff. The only thing I can add is that a hard poweroff in a RAID environment without a battery-backed up RAID controller (could think of it as an internal UPS) to save write cache can result in lost data. That's when having a graceful shutdown can be better than just flipping the switch.

And is why I have my NAS hooked up to one.

As for how often it's needed, Toronto had two city-wide, multi-day outages last year. My neighborhood has had one outage this year due to a transformer fire.

 

[imagoon]

Completely irrelevant is a UPS that costs $tens of thousands. With batteries that may last almost 20 years.

Decent double conversion UPS units are $400.

 

[westom]

Decent double conversion UPS units are $400.

Why is that relevant to the OP or even to outages in Toronto? How does that do any hardware protection? Why does spending many $hundreds more increase protection? It doesn't. Any advantages provided by double conversion already exists inside electronics.

That UPS is irrelevant to what the OP asked. Even a $400 UPS is made as cheaply as possible; still requires battery or UPS replacement every three years. Is not the $tens of thousand UPS that you originally descrxibed. A $400 UPS only solves what a $60 UPS also solves.

What is a PC UPS for? So that unsaved data can be saved. Or, as another noted, for convenience during rare blackouts.

Do lights dim indicating a lower voltage? Normal voltage for a computer is even when lights dim to 40% intensity. How often does that happen? Never? Lower voltage can be harmful to motorized appliances. Why would someone need a double conversion UPS? Because protection from low voltage must be on appliances at greater risk - a refrigerator, furnace, or washing machine. UPS for a computer is only for blackouts; not for hardware protection.

Electronics are so robust as to make the dirtiest UPS output into ideal and clean power. A double conversion UPS does not provide a useful advantage. But it sure does say its owner must be wealthier. If the Smiths have one, then the Jones also need one.

To answer the OP's question: A useful UPS provides temporary and 'dirty' power during a blackout.

 

[imagoon]

Why is that relevant to the OP or even to outages in Toronto? How does that do any hardware protection? Why does spending many $hundreds more increase protection? It doesn't. Any advantages provided by double conversion already exists inside electronics.

That UPS is irrelevant to what the OP asked. Even a $400 UPS is made as cheaply as possible; still requires battery or UPS replacement every three years. Is not the $tens of thousand UPS that you originally descrxibed. A $400 UPS only solves what a $60 UPS also solves.

What is a PC UPS for? So that unsaved data can be saved. Or, as another noted, for convenience during rare blackouts.

Do lights dim indicating a lower voltage? Normal voltage for a computer is even when lights dim to 40% intensity. How often does that happen? Never? Lower voltage can be harmful to motorized appliances. Why would someone need a double conversion UPS? Because protection from low voltage must be on appliances at greater risk - a refrigerator, furnace, or washing machine. UPS for a computer is only for blackouts; not for hardware protection.

Electronics are so robust as to make the dirtiest UPS output into ideal and clean power. A double conversion UPS does not provide a useful advantage. But it sure does say its owner must be wealthier. If the Smiths have one, then the Jones also need one.

To answer the OP's question: A useful UPS provides temporary and 'dirty' power during a blackout.

You keep at it Westom.

Yup all electronics have double conversion UPS style hardware inside them. I can see the battery cells in the back of my computer. /sarcasm

Also Westom you are so far off the OP reservation it isn't even funny. At least the below is actually related to the OP's questions.

Considering that the IEEE Emerald Book, Emerson Power, Schneider electric among others have entire papers on the subject of using a double conversion UPS units to help protect devices. One paper is here:

http://www.nationwidepower.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/liebert_ups.generator.match_.pdf

Specifically

"On-line (or double conversion) UPS designs can work very well with generators because they accept input power
with relatively wide variations in voltage and frequency.
An on-line UPS works because it actually re-develops the waveform. The AC input from either the utility or a
standby generator is first converted to DC by the rectifier. The DC current is used to charge the battery. During an
outage, DC current from the batteries is reformed by an inverter back to perfect sine wave AC for the critical load.
Newer models also use PFC (power factor correction) front-end converters that provide an even wider input voltage
range."

Basically the double conversion takes the trash power from a generator and coverts it a clean voltage and waveform. None of that trash, noise voltage sags, surges frequency drift ever make it to the load.

Would you mind citing the 40% light bulb stuff you keep talking about. Assuming a standard Edison incandescent base bulb, 40% intensity is below 80% of its rated voltage (square law dimming curve is what we called it in stage lighting.) 50% brightness is 81% voltage for most incandescent lamps. So at 50%, 120VAC is producing an apparent 97.2VAC. At this point you are below the generally accepted 100VAC of most computer gear. 40% ball parks to 90VAC. Most stuff is off at that point or frying if it is stupidly designed. If we look at lime light style stage lights, 40% brightness is is 65VAC.

Anyway you make some fairly wild claims, please give me some sources to work with. From this example we can already observe that a proper UPS can provide additional protection along with providing power during an outage to properly shutdown, counter to your claim.

 

[MongGrel]

I do at home, but a lot of storms come through.

Tampa Bay Lightning, Storm, etc.

 

[westom]

Basically the double conversion takes the trash power from a generator and coverts it a clean voltage and waveform. None of that trash, noise voltage sags, surges frequency drift ever make it to the load.

None of that is relevent to the OP's computer.

Learn what happens inside a computer. Any cleanest or dirtiest 120 volts from AC mains is converted to well over 300 volts DC. That high voltage is made dirty - converted to high voltage radio wave spikes. Then superior filtering and regulation (routinely found in PCs) converts that 'diritest' power into rock solid and stable low voltage (3.3, 5, 12) voltage DC.

Does not matter how clean your double conversion UPS is. Because even a well more than $400 UPSes that actually has cleaner power does nothing useful. Power is converted by a computer into the dirtiest. Then superior filtering and regulation inside a PC converts 'dirtiest' power into ideal, regulated, and cleanest DC voltages. That DC voltage remains ideal with or without the most expensive UPS.

What does a so expensive and exotic UPS do for the OP? Same thing that a $60 UPS does. Tempoary and 'dirty' power so that unsaved data can be saved.

Where is a PC, TV, printer, stereo, or digital clock that needs a well over $400 double conversion UPS? Only needed for an ego that says, "Mine is better than yours."

UPS has one purpose - temporary power to save unsaved data from a blackout. Even brownouts, polarity reversal, generator noise, RFI, spikes, floating ground, frequency variation, EMC/EMI, and sags are made irrelevant by what already exists inside every PC. Why spend $400+ to cure what is already solved?

A PC works even when incandescent bulbs dim to 40% intensity. Start with spec numbers that all PCs must meet. The arithmetic is well published; should be obvioius to one so full of 'knowledge' and mockery. Meanwhile that number is provided for the OP and others. So that any layman can see when voltage is too low.

AC utility will not provide voltage that low; bulbs that dim. Otherwise motorized appliances can be damaged. A utility either provides sufficient voltage or cuts off power. So that motorized appliances are unharmed. That simple. But mythical fears hype electronic damage from low voltage - that even incadescent bulbs expose as fables. Low voltage is another imaginary fear that promotes UPS sales.

OP asked what a UPS actually accomplishes. Temporary and 'dirty' power during a blackout. It does not and need not do anything else. However a UPS might tell the computer to shutdown before its batteries die minutes later. To save unsaved data.

 

[imagoon]

None of that is relevent to the OP's computer.

None of your post is relevant. All I see is Westom's opinions, and troll bates.