Upgrading...

[Kabouter]

Ok, I've decided my comp could use a major upgrade. It's not total crap, but the performance in some games is definitely lacking which is probably due to a memory shortage which I can't solve because I can use 512MB DIMM's max on my mobo and 2 of the 3 slots are blocked by cables which can't be moved due to a cramped case.

Current specs:
Biostar U8788 motherboard (totally crappy mobo, doesn't even have SATA or USB2.0, had to add USB2 with an add-on card)
Intel P4 2.4ghz 533mhz FSB
512MB PC2100 Samsung
Hercules 9700 pro
Western Digital 80GB 7200RPM 2MB cache drive
Western Digital 120GB 7200RPM 2MB external drive
Regular stuff (mouse, keyboard, speakers, soundcard etc. etc.)

And stuffed in a case that could be defined as the foetal stage of a miditower (yes, it's really small)

There isn't a fixed budget for the upgrade really. But you can safely assume that I'm not buying a FX-55 or crazy expensive stuff like that. But I'd say, surely no higher than 600-700 euros (prices are way higher here than in the US, so if you're judging by newegg prices go with ~600 dollars)

Any help is much appreciated

 

[chilled]

Begin by replacing the case - don't skimp! And most likely your PSU too.

Go for a Athlon 64 for gaming, say ~3200+ performance. Get a good nForce3 motherboard to match. Socket 754 or 939? Go for the latter if you plan to ugrade the CPU/want good overclocking potential. You may want to wait for the nForce4 and get a PCI express 6600GT.

Which games do you play? If it's along the lines of HL2/Doom3 consider getting 1GB PC3200 RAM. You'll need to ditch the PC2100.

You might want to get a S754 Athlon 64 3200+ and stick with the 9700pro to ensure you stay in your budget. Look at the buyer's guides here at AT to find some mobo recommendations.

 

[Kabouter]

I play all kinds of games, and yea that does include high-end shooters. But where performance seems to be lacking the most is in sim games with lots of units/objects on the map. So yea, 1GB would seem about right.

Upgrade potential sounds good yeah, so I'll wait for the nforce 4. That's due in a couple of months right?

As for case/PSU I have no idea what's good and what isn't. I do know that what I don't want is one of those "pre-modded" cases, I don't need my computer reminding me of the horror that is the Power Rangers.

 

[effee]

a64, 6800GT and you're set

 

[Losty]

dang... you got a 2.4ghz ... can't you just toss the mobo and ram .. get something better and just upgrade in a year or so ... ?

2.4ghz isn't slow ... maybe upgrade your video card ...
definitely get a case you can reuse almost forever ...

losty

 

[Hajime]

Upgrade the case and PSU.

Upgrade the video card.

You've got a 2.4ghz - you won't see any real major benefit from upgrading unless it's a chip like the FX-55 (Remember, if you go from 2.4ghz to a 3200+, that's an 800mhz increase according to PR vs. mhz - that's only a third of your current proc speed, and you'll probably see a bigger increase by doubling ram combined with a better vid card.). Spend a good chunk of it on an excellent PSU and case. And make sure they are BTX-compatible. You won't regret it - you'll keep that case (and possibly the PSU if you get good enough of one) around for years, whereas you'll upgrade the rest of the components fairly often.

If you do upgrade the case, you can also upgrade your ram as the space constraints are likely loosened. Upgrade another 512mb, get a good quality video card, and go for the best case/PSU you can possibly afford, and you should be set for a good bit.


Looking carefully at things, you -might- be able to pull off a 6800GT (Let's be blunt. A 6800GT is going to do more for your games then 800mhz or so extra speed - hell, if it's a late enough model P4, you may be able to OC it to 3.2ghz) + 512mb ram upgrade (It's only PC2100, and probably slack timings, so any value ram of a major manufacturer will work. You may want to get PC3200 value ram in fact.) + case + PSU for your budget.

But that's just what I'd do personally.

 

[Kabouter]

Abit IC7-Max3, i875P (Lan, Sound, Sata, 1394) ? 149,-
Cooler Master CM Stacker STC-T01 (No PSU, Black) ? 142,-
Cooler Master STB-3T4-E1 4 in 3 Device Module (4x 3.5" in 3x 5.25") ? 14,93
Tagan TG480-U01 480W PSU ? 82,25

How's that? That would leave 300 euros for memory and possibly other things.

 

[Hajime]

I'm not very familiar with Intel mobos, but I'll attempt to comment on the rest (Why a new mobo? Just buy a SATA raid PCI controller for $20, and you've got SATA support + USB 2.0 support.):

The Tagan's specs look impressive from what I've read on them. However, it looks like it isn't BTX-compatible, but that is my only real complaint about it - other then that, from the reviews I read, it sounds like a good PSU.

The case looks neat, and from the reviews I read, it has excellent airflow, and other great features. Not BTX-compatible from the specs I read, but BTX only matters if you plan on keeping the same case/PSU around for a couple years longer. It seems a bit pricey, however - what do Antecs run in your area? The Antecs that I've worked on are -all- thoroughly excellent cases, and a good bit cheaper. Is there something unique to that case that you absolutely must have? I can attempt to look for alternative options if there is something you need specifically.

 

[Kabouter]

Actually, the stacker can be adjusted so that it is BTX compatible. Or at least that's what it says on the Coolermaster website.
And can you name me some powersupplies that do support the BTX standard?

Also, would it be worth investing in a faster hdd?
And I still have no clue about the memory.

 

[oneshot47]

Originally posted by: Kabouter
Also, would it be worth investing in a faster hdd?

Nope. Those are just as fast as any thing you need. People will argue that the raptor is faster/better whatever but not that many people need that. As long as those are big enough for you thats fine.

Originally posted by: Kabouter
And I still have no clue about the memory.

P4's have usually benefitted a lot from increasing the memory bandwidth so i would say getting a gig of pc3200 if you have the budget for it, otherwise just getting 512 more of pc3200 (even though it will run at the speed of the slower module, its usually cheaper and it gives you an upgrade path since you can replace the slower one later).

 

[Hajime]

If the stacker can, then that is an excellent case . As I said, only saw/have heard good things about it, with the exception of price.

Offhand, I'd not bother with investing in a faster hd unless you found something for Eur.50/gb or less that's a 8mb cache 7200rpm hd AND if you need the space. Going up to a 8mb cache will net you some performance improvements, but for equal amounts of money, you could probably buy an additional 512mb of ram. 512mb more of ram will likely result in a higher performance boost.

OCZ Powerstream supports BTX - I know that much offhand. Check various reviews on it - I think it'll be about Eur10 more for a Powerstream equivalent to that Tagan wattage, plus BTX-compatibility.

As for ram - just go for Crucial, Kingston Value, Corsair Value, or Mushkin basic PC3200. They won't let you down.

Mobo: I asked earlier, but why are you upgrading the mobo? . And why the 875P? It's a pricey ah heck - overclocking reasons, what's happening there?

 

[oneshot47]

BTX isnt going to see mainstream use anytime soon, i wouldnt worry about something being btx compatible or not.

 

[Hajime]

One: If it's a case/PSU that a person has plans on keeping for years, then it can be worth paying the extra cash for .

Just a personal opinion there - I hate shelling out $100 for a case, then in two years, finding out that I've got to shell out another $100 for one that has all the stuff I need/want.

 

[Kabouter]

Why am I upgrading the mobo? Because the current one doesn't support anything beyond PC2100 for starters, second of all it's pretty damn unstable and third it has hardly any ports. Currently I'm forced to swap 3 devices between 1 USB port.

And the OCZ Powerstream 470W is available in exactly 1 store in Holland and costs a whopping 129 euros. Not sure if the BTX compatability is worth that.

 

[Hajime]

Kabouter: Point on the mobo.

However, if you are going to upgrade to a whole new mobo, look for the Chaintech VNF3-250, and just upgrade to an A64. I can pick up a VNF3-250 for $78 offa newegg - about half the price of that 875P - and you can probably pick up a Sempron 3100+ or A64 2800+ for fairly cheap - with a bit of minor overclocking, the additional cash (Probably in the $50 range) would be very well worth it, especially for gaming.

As for the PSU, you may want to hold off. Just find a good quality PSU with decent ratings. The case is worth the cash for BTX compatibility - even if it is 2 years or so away - simply because you won't have to pay out of the nose for another good case. (At least if it's worth it to you - to me, it is.)

 

[Kabouter]

Ok, that helps a lot man
Lemme see what I can come up with.

512MB x 2 (1GB) PC3200 DDR (TwinMos) ? 156,95
Tagan TG480-U01 480W PSU ? 82,25
Cooler Master CM Stacker STC-T01 (No PSU, Black) ? 142,-
Cooler Master STB-3T4-E1 4 in 3 Device Module (4x 3.5" in 3x 5.25") ? 14,93
Cooler Master STF-B01-E1 Cross Flow Fan ? 29,95

Still not sure about the mobo/proc. Saw this article here about the Socket 939 3200+ That sounds like a great processor.
Maybe I should wait a bit for the Nforce 4 ultra, get the 3200+ and a 6600GT and I'd have a great upgrade.
How's that sound?

 

[Hajime]

If you pull off a SLI NF4 Ultra + PCIe 6600GT, that's just what I'm waiting for .

Buy a SLI 6600GT now, and in a year, when I need an upgrade, buy another and SLI the suckers .

Translation: Doing the same thing as me, basically, motherboard wise . I may be waiting a bit longer, however, since I'm waiting for the DFI nf4 to come out.

I'm also running a 3200+ btw .