Upgrading my system...

[quique]

Hi, I really want to upgrade my system but I've been so out of it in the tech subject I'm not sure what's a good buy anymore.

I have a Pentium III 533 EB, a Soyo 6VBA133 mobo, 192 mb SDRAM, and ATI Rage Fury Pro (Rage 128).

I've been trying to play some games like Jedi Knight Outcast and GTA III but it's soooo slow! Can anybody recommend any upgrades?

I saw in today's Fry's ad a mobo and CPU combo for $159. It's a boxed Athlon 1800+ with ECS K7S5a. I'm thinking about getting it. I'm on a tight budget but I think I can still use a lot of the parts in my old system on that mobo/cpu. Any suggestions?

 

[CrazySaint]

What's your budget like? Are you willing to overclock? I'd say that if you're on a super tight budget ($200 or less) your best bet would be to get a new video card and maybe some more RAM.

 

[quique]

Actually about sub $200 is my budget. My Soyo board only supports AGP 1X and I called Rockstar Games (makers of GTA III) and they said the amount of memory should be plenty to run the game

 

[quique]

Actually about sub $200 is my budget. My Soyo board only supports AGP 1X and I called Rockstar Games (makers of GTA III) and they said the amount of memory should be plenty to run the game

 

[AnAndAustin]

I'm afraid quique that there's a 99% chance you're stuck. Either add a bit more RAM and a faster CPU with a new gfx card, or else sell your PC and buy a faster one.

The problem is that (in all likely hood) your case will have inadequate ventilation or case fan mounts ($50). Your PSU will be far too skimpy for modern hw so you really should get a dual fan Enermax, Antec, ToPower of Flower 400W+ PSU ($50), although you could get a cheap one thrown in with your case, they are often over optimistic and unreliable. Your gfx card will obviously need updating ($100-150), your sound card and modem are in danger of being ISA rather than PCI and as such unusable on any new mobo ($40). Your RAM is SDR so won't work in any modern mobo (not that you'd want it to) ($40). Your keyboard and possibly even mouse may not be PS2, so you may need new ones ($10-20). So you're left with your current monitor, speakers, CDROM and HD (what size is it though). Since everything really needs replacing it makes far more sense to just build or buy a whole new PC either new or second hand, 2nd hand 1ghz (pref SktA Duron/Athlon that can take n AthlonXP) PC will be much better and you should get a good deal.

Otherwise if you choose to upgrade your current PC then you are looking at keeping your mobo and its SDR (otherwise it's just too expensive). So you'd be looking to what CPU your mobo can take, check the manu website for info. If you're lucky you can get away with using a PIII 1.2ghz ($122). Then you will want more SDR RAM (PC133?), 128MB ($19) or 256MB ($32). Then for a gfx card you want either a Radeon8500LE or GF3TI200 as a bare minimum, both cost around $100. GF4TI4200 ($150) is a much better buy if you can stretch to it, esp the 128MB version (unless you are scared of o/c). So if you are lucky and your mobo can take the PIII 1.2ghz then it would cost you $240 for the CPU, 128MB+your own RAM and GF3/Rad8500. If you need to have the 256MB stick and GF4TI4200 you are looking at $300. You may still need a new case and PSU though.

 

[Adul]

your best best is to order online. but even though you are held back by your 3d card. sell some of you stuff to increase your budget

 

[Adul]

ok here is what i can suggest.

Sparkle Power 300 Watt Switching Power $27
AMD DURON 1.0 GHZ OEM $41
Cooler Maser SP5-6G31C-01 CPU cooling fan for AMD/Intel Processors Retail $11
VISIONTEK Xtasy 5632 GEFORCE2 GTS-V 4X/2X 32MB DDR AGP - OEM $47.00

$189.00


shipped should be just around 200. You can get away with a 250watt power supply if that is what you already have. that will drop 27 bucks off.

 

[AnAndAustin]

Here's some 3Dmark2001 scores to show you what the likely diff would be (gfx card: total marks, games1-4 FPS high detail):

PIII 1.2ghz:

1024x768x32:
Rage 128: 1200, 9, 7, 13, na
GF3TI200: 6500, 32, 59, 44, 37
GF4TI4200: 7500, 31, 83, 45, 39

1024x768x32xAA:
Rage 128: no results
GF3TI200: 3800, 24, 33, 32, 19
GF4TI4200: 6700, 30, 76, 42, 33


PIII 533mhz:

1024x768x32:
Rage 128: 750, 4, 5, 8, na
GF3TI200: 4000, 16, 36, 28, 23
GF4TI4200: 4500, 13, 48, 25, 39

1024x768x32xAA:
Rage 128: no results
GF3TI200: 2800, 13, 24, 23, 15
GF4TI4200: 3600, 13, 36, 23, 28

 

[Adul]

or you can just go with a faster agp card.

 

[AnAndAustin]

You really would not want to give any PC a GF2 card unless budget is VERY tight or you don't really play games, the gfx card is the wrong place to skimp! Duron 1ghz uses the AthlonXP core so you will need to get an XP compatible SktA mobo.

1024x768x32
Duron 1ghz & GF2GTS-TI: 4200, 21, 35, 35, na
PIII 1.2ghz & GF3TI200: 6500, 32, 59, 44, 37
PIII 1.2ghz & GF4TI4200: 7500, 31, 83, 45, 39

1024x768x32xAA
Duron 1ghz & GF2GTS-TI: 2000, 16, 16, 20, na
PIII 1.2ghz & GF3TI200: 3800, 24, 33, 32, 19
PIII 1.2ghz & GF4TI4200: 6700, 30, 76, 42, 33

Obviously the GF2 gets 'na' in game4 because it lacks any DX8 enhanced functions.

 

[AnAndAustin]

As I mentioned earlier you'll almost certainly end up with headaches and problems if you try sticking a new CPU & mobo in there. Your case and PSU are almost certain to be inadequate. Your modem and soundcard are okay if they're PCI, but you will likely find at least 1 of them isn't. ETC ETC.

I would still say do one of the following:

1. Upgrade the gfx card to Rad8500LE or GF3TI200, 4000 points vs your current 750, and will only cost you $100. Just ensure your mobo can take it (AGP2.0 compliant AGP slot, NOT AGP 2x or 4x which are different), it should.

2. Upgrade the CPU to the fastest your mobo can support and gfx card too (if not RAM as well). $200-250.

3. Sell your PC, get a new entry level PC, or look for a faster, pref more upgradable 2nd hand PC.

 

[quique]

Hey, thank you all for your suggestions! I know that all my stuff is pretty old but I just wanted to salvage some parts to possibly save money! All my cards are PCI except for a SCSI card that I use for my ancient UMAX UC1260 (ISA) so I think I can salvage the modem and sound card if necessary.

I'm not too savvy about the hardware though. I'm vaguely familiar with the nVidia video cards. Are the MX series any good? And are there huge differences between GeForce 1, 2, 3, and 4? Also, is there really that much of a difference between DDR and normal SDRAM (I have PC133)? I read somewhere that the difference is hardly noticeable. I've also heard mixed reviews on the ECS K7S5A but it's appealing to me cause it's cheap and it can take SDRAM. Anyone have any opinions on that?

I'm not really a hard-core gamer but I just want to play my games so that they aren't terribly slow and that they don't constantly pause during play. That's why I wanted to get a descent system that didn't cost a fortune and would be compatible for future games. Do you think I should just wait until AMD Hammer comes out that will hopefully drive prices down?

 

[quique]

Oh, BTW, anyone know of any good places to buy online? I got a suggestion that Mwave.com and newegg.com were good ones, any other recommendations?

 

[AnAndAustin]

Even being able to keep your PCI cards for the new mobo it hardly effects the cost, you'll still be buying 95% a new PC anyway!

Keeping it simple it breaks down like this:

GF2 MX200 - VERY slow.
GF2 MX/MX400 - Used to be decent budget buys, but now the GF2TI is so cheap pointless.
GF2 GTS - The first GF2, still decent on a slow CPU (500mhz)
GF2 PRO - The revamped GTS, slightly faster
GF2 TI - The latest GF2 card, and only $60
GF2 Ultra - The fastest GF2 card, only slightly faster than GF2TI and a LOT more expensive.
GF4 MX420 - GF2MX but with the GF4 enhancements (see below)
GF4 MX440 - GF2TI but with ...
GF4 MX460 - Slightly faster than GF4MX440
GF3 TI200 - Good budget card and excellent o/c (reaches GF3 speeds). DX8.
GF3 - Original GF3, still good. DX8.
GF3 TI500 - Fastest GF3. DX8.
GF4 TI4200 - Fantastic value and o/c (GF4 TI4400 levels) and only $150. DX8.
GF4 TI4400 - Slightly faster than 4200. DX8.
GF4 TI4600 - Slightly faster than 4400. DX8.

The Radeon cards are very worthy competitiors, but outside the US & Canada prices are ridiculously high. Perf-wise; Radeon7500 is equal to GF2TI but, Rad7500 offers better '2D' image quality and VIVO. Radeon8500LE is equal to GF3, again offering better '2D' image quality and VIVO, but losing AA perf. In the same way the full Radeon8500 equals the GF3TI500. Matrox Parhelia is WAY OVERPRICED! It gives GF3 perf and does have excellent '2D' image quality and support for 3 displays! It also has Fragment AA, it has its pros and cons but certainly isn't worth any where near the asking price. Finally the SiS Xabre400 is VERY new, it performs as fast as a GF4MX440 but can also do DX8, although it has probs with some SktA mobos AND has premature drivers at the moment.

DX8: Pixel and Vertex shaders in hardware, greatly enhances some current games and will become very important over the next 12 months.
GF4 Enhancements: Better AA, '2D' image quality and VIVO.

In US$ it comes down to a few simple choices, GF2TI or Rad7500 for $60. GF3TI200 or Rad8500LE for $85. GF4TI4200 for $140, although there are 2 types, 64MB and 128MB, I strongly advise the 128MB will serve you much better over the long term, and probably not all that long either.

 

[AnAndAustin]

BTW those GF cards are all in perf order.

I have heard nothing but good things about www.newegg.com.

DDR (eg PC2100) is technicaly far superior to SDR (eg PC133), but when you run games it is definitely the gfx card that dictates nearly all of the perf so the real world drop from DDR to SDR isn't actually that huge. Only a few %!

ECS are a little cheap and a little nasty, but chipset dictates 98% of perf and quirks so I wouldn't let that stop you, esp if it supports both SDR now while allowing DDR in the future too.

IMHO If you start waiting for the next technological leap you'll never stop.

 

[Adul]

AnAndAustin has got all the graphics cards rounded up

if you can spare 250 or 260 bucks you can toss in a radeon 8500 instead ofa geforce 2 GTS-V. the MB i choose will support a XP type core.