Upgrading dual-channel DDR SDRAM on new purchase

[stinger96]

Hey everybody,
I just found this great forum (unfortunately after placing my below Dell order). I am finally upgrading my system from a P2 300Mhz 193RAM to a Dell 4600. I have already ordered a ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 128 DDR graphics card and Far Cry. Here is my question that I wondering about: I underestimated the RAM and am receiving 256x2 dual channel. It seems from the posts that this will be too slow to use for Far Cry and other games. The sites I have gone to such as crucial and kingston all recommend buying in pairs, which would stick me with 256x2 (which would limit future upgrades without buying an entire new pair) or 512x2 (which is pretty expensive and I don't think I need over 1.5 gig). Any recommendations to upgrade? Can I just buy a single 512mb? Should it be in PC2700 or PC3200.
Thanks for any help, Trent

Dimension 4600
Intel ® Pentium® 4 Processor 2.8GHz w/533MHz FSB, Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition Qty: 1
Unit Price: $809.00
Dell Dimension 4600 Series Intel ® Pentium® 4 Processor 2.8GHz w/533MHz FSB
W285H
[221-3725]

Memory 512MB Dual Channel DDR SDRAM at 333MHz (2x256M)
512M3
[311-3018]

Keyboard Dell® Quietkey® Keyboard
QK
[310-1582]

Monitor No Monitor
N
[320-3000]

Video Card Integrated Intel® Extreme Graphics 2
IV
[320-2870]

Hard Drive 80GB Ultra ATA/100 Hard Drive (7200 RPM)
80
[341-0834]

Floppy Drive and Additional Storage Devices No Floppy Drive Included
NFD
[340-8688]

Operating System Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition
WHXP
[313-7222]
[420-1921]
[412-0409]

Mouse Dell® 2-button scroll mouse
SM
[310-1871]

Network Card Integrated Intel® PRO 10/100 Ethernet
IN
[430-0412]

Modem 56K PCI Data Fax Modem
DFAX
[313-2279]

CD or DVD Drive Single Drive: 16X DVD-ROM Drive
16DVD
[313-2610]
[430-0594]
[462-7805]

Sound Integrated 5.1 Channel Audio
IS
[313-2758]

Speakers No Speaker Option
N
[313-2198]

 

[imported_Aelius]

Assuming your motherboard supports Dual Channel then it is better to go with Dual Channel as opposed to single Channel. You will notice a performance drop if you run RAM in single channel.

Games like FarCry practically beg for more RAM. Generally speaking, as of today, 1GB of RAM is a must if you want to run games at reasonably high settings.

If you don't have 1 GB you are bottlenecking your system for gaming.

As far as PC 2700 or PC3200 someone else will need to answer that. I don't run Intel CPUs and they work a bit differently with RAM than AMD CPUs.

Also your CPU seems a bit low for games like Far Cry.

You can try your current setup but don't expect great frame rates with it in FarCry, even after tuning the OS.

Of course as always I suggest building a system yourself over anything else.

You can shop around and find better prices and eventually save money, plus you get "exactly" what you want, which is nay impossible to get from any PC maker, be it DELL, Falcon NW, Alienware or anyone else.

The phrase, you get what you pay for, is also true for computers. Beware, research sites like this one, and ask tons of questions. Best way to learn.

If you check out my sig you will see what I got planned for myself as my first completely self built system. My current computer, similar to the one you are getting except for the vid card and RAM, is going to a friend of mine for free. Won't be needing it soon. =D

 

[mechBgon]

If you did want to build your own, here's my photo guide to empower you to do that. Some of the benefits include the option for something besides the basic onboard soft-audio, and the ability to choose your own power supply unit. You'll probably think of others too

Regarding the RAM: if you are going to keep the Dell, then get the two 512MB modules from Crucial.com's own memory configurator so you have their lifetime warranty (must use the memory selector for this). You can either have 1.5GB total, or you can sell off the pair of 256's.

If you get the Dell and do want to increase the memory, note that it matters which slots the modules go in, to preserve dual-channel operation. If you add two modules into the two vacant slots, you're ok. If you replace the existing two modules with two others in the same slots, or in the pair of slots currently vacant, you're also ok.

 

[stinger96]

Thanks for both of your replies. I did move to quick in the purchase to get the 20% discount with Dell this week (I did not realize gaming requirements were so high). I have a few follow-up questions:

1) I saw in another thread the idea that putting a single 512 card in the 3rd slot would configure the system to recognize slots 1&2 as one channel and slot 3 as the other channel, thus preserving the dual channel configuration. Is this right?

2) Would putting the 512x2 cards in the 3rd and 4th slots cause any imbalance since they would have 2x the memory as the first 2 slots?

3) Any other upgrades (I would prefer not to upgrade the CPU at this point) needed? Any worries about "overclocking"(not that I really understand what this is)?

Thanks a lot and I look forward to continuing to learn. -Trent

 

[mechBgon]

Originally posted by: stinger96
Thanks for both of your replies. I did move to quick in the purchase to get the 20% discount with Dell this week (I did not realize gaming requirements were so high). I have a few follow-up questions:

1) I saw in another thread the idea that putting a single 512 card in the 3rd slot would configure the system to recognize slots 1&2 as one channel and slot 3 as the other channel, thus preserving the dual channel configuration. Is this right?

2) Would putting the 512x2 cards in the 3rd and 4th slots cause any imbalance since they would have 2x the memory as the first 2 slots?

3) Any other upgrades (I would prefer not to upgrade the CPU at this point) needed? Any worries about "overclocking"(not that I really understand what this is)?

Thanks a lot and I look forward to continuing to learn. -Trent

1) No, this will result in single-channel operation for the type of chipset that's used on your motherboard.

2) No, it will work fine despite the different amounts of memory on the two pairs of slots

3) A high-performance audio card comes to mind, and some high-performance speakers or headphones 'Overclocking' is running the computer at a higher speed than it was built for. With Dells it's essentially impossible, so 'nuf said on that.

 

[stinger96]

Thanks mechBgon.
Would the below Kingston or Corsair Value RAM dual cards work? They are cheaper than the crucial cards. Any diff. in performance? Also, my old computer has a Ensoniq AudioPCI Wave 32/ES1370 sound card and Altec Lansing/ACS45 (it seems as if the wattage for the subwoofer is 20W and 6W for each satellite). Is this laughable to move this setup to the new computer? Any recommendations for a sound card/speaker setup? Thanks, Trent

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.asp?description=20-141-423&DEPA=1
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.asp?description=20-145-480&DEPA=1

 

[stinger96]

mechBgon,
Here is the thread with your (I did not realize it when I previously referenced it) reply that has me confused. Is this case different from mine based on the motherboard? Thanks, Trent


I have a Asus A7N8x board, and I was wondering, I currently have 2 sticks of 256mb running on it, would it be bad if I add a another stick of 512mb stick to the 3rd slot? would I loss the dual ddr advantage?


It will still run in dual-DDR mode. pspada did some testing with two 256's and a 512 and also found that it really made no difference what arrangement was used. His testing was UT2003 Botmatch, a real-world benchmark. Are all the modules at least fast enough to sync to your CPU's bus speed... for example, PC2700 or faster for a CPU with a DDR333 bus (such as AthlonXP 2500+)?

-------------------------

 

[mechBgon]

Actually, after a while I realized that you've bought with 512MB already. For some reason I thought you had bought the computer with 256MB total, not 256 x 2 At that rate, you could get another pair of 256's and you'd be at 1GB with less expense. So I apologize for that I would think the Kingston or Corsair Value would work fine. Remember that Dell may not support anything they didn't sell to you themselves, though. But if you're getting a 9800 Pro then I guess that kinda clinches it regardless.

For audio... I'm not very knowledgeable on speakers, but an Audigy 2 or one of the Turtle Beach cards is probably what you want for gaming. Someone jump in and help stinger96 with this!

 

[mechBgon]

Originally posted by: stinger96
mechBgon,
Here is the thread with your (I did not realize it when I previously referenced it) reply that has me confused. Is this case different from mine based on the motherboard? Thanks, Trent


I have a Asus A7N8x board, and I was wondering, I currently have 2 sticks of 256mb running on it, would it be bad if I add a another stick of 512mb stick to the 3rd slot? would I loss the dual ddr advantage?


It will still run in dual-DDR mode. pspada did some testing with two 256's and a 512 and also found that it really made no difference what arrangement was used. His testing was UT2003 Botmatch, a real-world benchmark. Are all the modules at least fast enough to sync to your CPU's bus speed... for example, PC2700 or faster for a CPU with a DDR333 bus (such as AthlonXP 2500+)?

-------------------------

The nForce2 chipset on the A7N8X Deluxe plays by different rules than the Intel i865G chipset that's in your Dell, is the reason

 

[Matthias99]

You have a Pentium 4, not an Athlon XP. Totally different chipsets.

It depends on the motherboard, and I don't know what they use in the 4600. If it's an 865PE, it *should* support unbalanced dual-channel with 3 sticks. I think. But I'm not an expert on P4 chipsets.

 

[mechBgon]

Here's a thread where I talked a little more clearly about dual-channel from both Intel and nVidia, might help a little.

 

[stinger96]

MechBgon and Matthias99,

Thanks for the clarification and follow-up. I have read through the other link and some of your guides for addtl. learning. I did buy the graphics card through Dell after the fact for $198. Just a few quick follow-ups:

1) Would 256x2 limit me too much in the future at 1 G? Would I have to buy a new pair (512x2) in 1-2 years to stay current?
2) (Is this an extreme measure?) The more I learn from you and this site, the more I am having buyers remorse for the limiting RAM, P4b w/ 533 instead of the p4c or Athon processor, etc... I computer has shipped, but has not arrived. Is it worth biting the bullet now to return it unopened for a 15% restocking fee (about $105)? If I did return it, any recommendations other than Dell for ordering a custom-built computer where I select the guts (I do not trust my technical skills on building my own yet)?

Thanks, Trent

 

[mechBgon]

You have a reasonable balance there, it's not like you bought a Celeron or something. Maybe do this:

1) Get the extra RAM
2) Get the premium sound card and speakers or headphones that suit you
3) You already got a good video card
4) Remember that you could re-use all of the above items in a self-built computer later, if the Dell ends up being a little lackluster. It has onboard video and audio so you could sell it off like that. You would need a new WindowsXP license/CD if you took that route.

 

[stinger96]

Thanks MechBgon.
What do you think about adding the 256x2 vs. 512x2 and having to upgrade later?

As for the audio, the old Altec's I have seem to work fine (I'm not too picky of an audiophile)--the mid-level guide I read suggested leaving the stock card in it, so I might wait on upgrading on the audio side).

I really didn't want to throw away $105 to Dell, so thanks for the vote of confidence.

 

[mechBgon]

I don't know for sure how much RAM will be considered optimal for gaming over the life of your system. Hopefully 1GB will get the job done for quite a while, though.

My general rationale is that you can always sell stuff if you have to. If you had bought two 256MB modules six months ago, you could even sell them for a bit of a profit at this point I paid $96 each for my three Corsair XMS 3200C2 modules, and now they're $150 each, for example.

 

[stinger96]

mechBgon,
Thanks for the follow-through. I am ready to order the 256x2. Two last questions: Since I have the pc2700 on the 256x2 already, will the pc3200 provide any noticeable improvement? At the same price point, any diff. b/w Crucial, Corsair or Kingston? Thanks, Trent

 

[mechBgon]

Originally posted by: stinger96
mechBgon,
Thanks for the follow-through. I am ready to order the 256x2. Two last questions: Since I have the pc2700 on the 256x2 already, will the pc3200 provide any noticeable improvement? At the same price point, any diff. b/w Crucial, Corsair or Kingston? Thanks, Trent

Very intelligent questions PC3200 is more useful down the road in other computers and the cost isn't much higher, so you might as well get PC3200. It will run at the speed of the slower module but there's no harm in that. The performance improvement of having twice the RAM should be noticable by how games can cache lots of maps in RAM instead of dragging them out from the hard drive, so it's the quantity that will make the noticable improvement for you here. I respect all three brands that you mentioned, they ought to be fine.

 

[stinger96]

mechBgon,
Thanks again--received the crucial 2x256 sticks today. -Trent