Upgrading Computer

[Confusednewbie1552]

Hey, It's been about 3 and a half years since I last built my computer, and it's high time for an upgrade. I've been out of touch in the technology world for a while now, and so I thought I'd ask here to get an idea on what's going on. So here are the details:

1. What YOUR PC will be used for. That means what types of tasks you'll be performing.

2. What YOUR budget is. A price range is acceptable as long as it's not more than a 20% spread

3. What country YOU will be buying YOUR parts from.

4. IF YOU have a brand preference. That means, are you an Intel-Fanboy, AMD-Fanboy, ATI-Fanboy, nVidia-Fanboy, Seagate-Fanboy, WD-Fanboy, etc, etc, etc, you get the picture.

5. If YOU intend on using any of YOUR current parts, and if so, what those parts are.

6. IF YOU have searched and/or read similar threads.

7. IF YOU plan on overclocking or run the system at default speeds.

1: I'll be using my computer for gaming and general work (word, surfing the web, etc.)

2: My price range is 400-600, I'd go a little higher than 600 if it's absoutely necessary, and of course anything less than 400 is awesome too =)

3: USA

4: No brand preference

5: I intend on using all of my current parts except: motherboard, cpu, ram, video card, and possibly: soundcard (unless the motherboard has onboard sound) and power supply (unless 470 watts will be enough).

6: I've been snooping around a bit, but overall no.

7: I don't exactly plan on overclocking, but I'm not adverse to it either.

Anyway let me know if you need any more info, and thanks in advance =) .

 

[Winterpool]

re 5. I'll start with the soundcard since that's easiest: at your budget, you won't need one. Onboard sound ('HD audio') has come a long way, especially if you get a board with ALC888 or better.

It would also be useful to know what sort of monitor you have (ie what resolution must be supported), and how seriously you plan to game. A $200 video card would comprise a big chunk of your budget. If you're not gaming, there are finally respectable onboard graphics with the AMD 780G chipset (you'll be able to watch HD video with a sub-$100 cpu and without discrete graphics). In theory, you could use the integrated graphics for now, upgrade to a discrete card later when you've more $ (at that point you might be able to go up to a Phenom cpu as well). At present you could probably buy a good 780G board, a 2.8 GHz 'Brisbane' cpu, and 4 GB of memory for < $300.

Otherwise you should probably get an Intel P35 board, a cheap Pentium E to overclock, and a good deal on a video card (there have been deals on GeForce 9600 GTs for under $120 after rebate recently).

I recommended these two alternatives (in some detail) for a fellow who had $500, then $300, to spend on cpu + mb + video + ram.

If you really want to see me rant and rave on this topic, you can find some extensive posts of mine from last week -- especiallly on spending < $100 or > $200 on a cpu. Though, if you can wait a little while, there may be a $130ish cpu coming soon that, when mildly overclocked, will perform as well as the $250+ E8500.

Do you think it might be another three years or so before you buy another computer? In that case stretching to afford a Q6600 might be a good idea, especially if you decide to overclock it in a year or so, as it gets a little obsolescent. You could probably get it for $200, spend about $100 or less on a decent P35 board, $80ish on 4 GB memory, and whatever you've left on the best 9600 GT or 8800 GT deal you can find. That would probably come out to $400 to 600 right there. In one best case scenario with today's prices:

Q6600, <$196 + Abit IP35-E or Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L, $90 + 9600 GT, $147AR + 4 GB PC2 6400, $70AR...
= a little more than $500 after rebates; $575ish before

If you can afford it, an 8800 GT be even better.

Who made your power supply, and how old is it?

 

[Confusednewbie1552]

Hey,

Thanks for the input!

To answer your questions and clarify a few things:

I will be using a 19 inch 1280X1024 LCD monitor, however it is POSSIBLE (I cannot stress that enough) that in a year or so I maybe getting say a 23 inch wide screen monitor (I believe the standard resolutions of those is 1900X1200).

I do plan to game "seriously." What I mean by that is that I don't necessarily need the highest settings to play games, but I wont an enjoyable playing experience. Also, if it's useful, the game I plan on playing the most is Supreme Commander: Forged Alliance. However, as games come out, I will be buying and playing them.

Also I plan on keeping this system for 2 years (until 2010) where I will be planning on buying a tottally new system (most likely a laptop). This means I don't need a computer necessarily future proof, but I'd like it to play games two years from now somewhat well.

So keeping these 2 things in mind I was thinking of a seperate video card in say the 8800-9600 (I don't know which one is better) range (or its ATI equivalent)?

Also, supreme commander is a pretty cpu demanding game, so I'm thinking of a pretty high performing CPU and I would like 4gb of ram (i've learned that ram is often the first thing to become outdated in a system), however I understand if I have to make some sacrifices for the sake of my budget.

My psu is a 470 watt Enermax and its 3 and a half years old.

I do like your reccomendation at the bottom of your post, and that intel processor deal is awesome, I hope you can respond quickly cause im getting nervous that deal might end soon =)

Thanks!

 

[chinaman1472]

At 1280x1024, the 9600GT should handle it fine. At 1900x1200, it'll be pretty rough. Hell, I think even the 8800GTS would be straining.

 

[Roguestar]

512MB 8800GTS at least, for that resolution, for modern games. And that's most of the budget!

 

[Confusednewbie1552]

All right, I take back my comment =)

I'll only be using a 1280x1024 monitor.

The 23 inch monitor was just something that was in the back of my mind and I wasn't all too serious on.

Edit: also, do you have any direct links to a good 8800 gt, should I chose to get it?

and if my enermax isn't good enough, what would be a good psu for that setup?

And can the Q6600 overclock well on a stock cooler or would i have to buy an aftermarket cooler? of course this wont matter if my enermax is barely sufficient. I rather run on stock speeds than have to buy a new psu.

 

[Confusednewbie1552]

bump

 

[Winterpool]

Quadcores are hot; you'll want an aftermarket cooler to overclock (well, certainly for the Q6600).

I've a GeForce 9600 GT and a 1280x1024: I'm not a gamer but am willing to try some games now that I've a respectable card. In the future, with newer games and (ideally) a new 1920x1200 monitor, I know I'll have to get a new card if I want to game.

You can peruse the Power Supplies thread for recommendations. Seasonic PSUs and those built by them (Antec, Corsair, etc) are generally highly regarded. I like Antec because they're often available on sale / rebate (bought my Antec Neo HE 500W for $35 after $70 discount and rebate), though they've probably the least cachet of high-end PSUs. Without discounts, expect to pay about $100+ for a qualite 500+W power supply.

Buying a new cpu, motherboard, and video card seems like an opportunity for a new PSU to me. Modern supplies also tend to waste much less electricity (higher efficiency), even at low power levels. Try to find one on sale. There was an Antec Trio 650W for $50 after rebate yesterday.

 

[Winterpool]

By the way, PNY's GeForce 9600 GT is available for $150 - 40 rebate = $110. PNY isn't PALiT or XFX, but presumably their gpus come from nVidia and their cards work.

You don't need to upgrade your power supply straightaway (technically you've more than enough watts), but it's probably a good idea when you start overclocking.

 

[Confusednewbie1552]

All right, I do suppose I can stech my budget a little bit to accomdate a psu.

What would be an optimal size PSU? 500 watts? 600? And also, if I plan on overclocking is there anything I should know when looking for ram?

Also I've heard that quite a bit of the the gigabyte and abit motherboards are error prone/faulty. Anything I should know about this? I'd spend a little more (say 20 or even 30 dollars) if that means I can get a pretty solid motherboard (I've had issues with motherboards in the past), however if this is a rare occurence then I'd be fine buying them.

Thanks!

Edit: Just saw your previous post, yeah I saw that deal earlier today, I'm comfortable with buying from PNY =).

What would be a good size psu for overclocking?

What would be the bare minimum size psu i would need for this system (basically I want to know how far I am from the bottom of the barrel)?

 

[Winterpool]

You almost always require less power than the manufacturers (and overzealous geeks) might claim. That said, as modern power supplies offer high efficiency even when using a low proportion of the total available power, there's no harm in buying yourself some room to grow. During their benchmarks, X-bit labs found stock Q6600 systems to pull 251 watts, and The Tech Report's nice graphs show peak of about 240 watts during CineBench rendering. Overclocked to 3.6 GHz, X-bit labs were demanding 394 watts of their system. At 3.3 GHz, AnandTech needed only 259 watts for their 'G0' Q6600 under load. Many of these test systems used the GeForce 8800 GTX, which pulls several dozen more watts than the 8800 GT (let alone the 9600 GT). Test systems differ from 'real life', however, in rarely containing more than one hard drive.

Again, the total number of watts is less critical than the quality of the manufacturer. Anything 400+ will probably be fine for you if it comes from a good marque. 500ish seems the sweet spot these days, but if you find a good deal on a 400, 430, etc, I suspect that will prove more than adequate as well.

There are a huge number of enthusiasts using the Abit IP35-E and Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L: if there were significant issues, these boards would not be as popular as they are. That said, they're not perfect, and such large numbers, you're bound to find a number of bad eggs. I like to peruse Newegg reviews and get an idea of the proportion of negative to positive, keeping in mind that a negative experience is far more likely to motivate a review than a no-problems build. You won't find that additional peace of mind for $30 more, just more features (which you should buy if you need them, of course) -- eg southbridge RAID, FireWire, etc. To truly get a better built board, you generally have to spend $200+.

The Q6600's stock FSB frequency is 266 MHz so even PC2 5300 memory should permit decent overclocking. That said, PC2 6400 memory is cheap, so definitely pick some up. Corsair XMS2 is available at $25ish AR for 2 GB, $70ish AR for 4.

 

[Confusednewbie1552]

Thank you so much for all your deatiled help!!! I really appreciate it and I just bought all my parts =) !

Just out of curiosity, how high could you overclock a PNY 9600 GT on a stock cooler?

Once again thank you so much for your help Whirlpool and others too!

 

[Confusednewbie1552]

Oh and also just out curiosity:

1: How does a 9600 GT rank up against a 8800GTX?

2: How does a 9600 GT rank up against a 6800GT ?

 

[chinaman1472]

8800GTX > 9600GT > 6800GT in performance. At 1280x1024, the performance difference between the 8800GTX and 9600GT won't be too noticeable outside of Crysis and the like. You might lose AA/AF though.
9600GT > 8800GTX > 6800GT in bang for buck, especially on a 1280x1024.

The 8800GTX is an old card. It's still a beast, but definitely not wise to invest in a $300 card that's nearly a year and half old. The 9600GT should run cooler and probably quieter.

As far as overclocking the 9600GT, it varies. I haven't found much performance gain in OCing my GPU to be honest.

 

[Confusednewbie1552]

Thanks all! I got my system up and running and now all I need to do is install Vista and move my files =)!

Once again thanks!!!!!!!:beer: