Upgrading, can I stick to my Antec True Power 430w?

[grifter12]

GIGABYTE GA-EP35-DS3R
Intel Core 2 Duo E8400
EVGA GeForce 8800GT 512MB
OCZ SLI-Ready Edition 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800
2 HDs and a DVD burner

Also have a 400w Fortron. Can I save a buck? Any power supplies you can recommend?

 

[Davegod]

I have same PSU and similar rig (see sig). I'll just quote what I posted in a MSI Neo2-FR thread:

Originally posted by: Davegod
I'm running mine on a somewhat ageing 20+4pin 430w TruePower PSU, though I got a adapter to connect the 4pin + two molex into the 8 pin header.

Don't bother with the 20>24pin adapter, if anything it'd just add resistance.

It works totally fine as is. However if I plug my second HDD in I get graphics problems (2nd hdd using the same cable as vid card). Possibly I could alleviate that by rearranging what is connected to what power cable, but I spent some time during the build trying to balance it out so I doubt I have much better options and I don't need the 2nd hard drive.

I think the 430w is fine, it's the number of molex connectors I needed that has left me with few options for balancing - particularily since with that 8pin adapter I've basically got 3 used just for the motherboard. YMMV.

I did a little looking around myself and I think the Corsair TX 650W got a good writeup at SilentPCReview (high on their recommended list) and is pretty cheap. I'm looking at UK prices tho, again YMMV.

 

[jonnyGURU]

I personally wouldn't use either, but since you already have them you might as well put it together and run it and see what happens.

Any kind of "failure" that happens because of inadequate power shouldn't harm anything else. It's not like they're cheap PSU's w/o safety provisions to begin with.

 

[grifter12]

Originally posted by: Davegod
I think the 430w is fine, it's the number of molex connectors I needed that has left me with few options for balancing - particularily since with that 8pin adapter I've basically got 3 used just for the motherboard. YMMV.

Would I need an adapter for the newer motherboard? I hadn't considered that.

 

[Davegod]

I don't know if it is needed. IIRC the 4 pin actually fits in the 8 pin slot so it's quite plausable you don't. I wasnt sure when I was ordering and the adapter was cheap, so it was an easy decision just to grab it.

I must admit I'm not really sure why they bother changing the 20pin to 24pin, the 4pin to an 8 pin and while you're at it the VGA card molex for the 6 (?) pin (and then there's SATA power connectors). There's adapters for every one of them and AFAIK they all run off the same rail that they did before.

 

[jonnyGURU]

Originally posted by: Davegod
I must admit I'm not really sure why they bother changing the 20pin to 24pin, the 4pin to an 8 pin and while you're at it the VGA card molex for the 6 (?) pin (and then there's SATA power connectors). There's adapters for every one of them and AFAIK they all run off the same rail that they did before.

That's electricity 101. The more conductors you have, the less resistance. The less resistance, the better the voltage regulation.

Yeah, there are adapters but I strongly suggest against them. If the motherboard runs with 20 despite having a 24-pin receptacle, just use the 20-pin and leave the other four off. You're actually better off than using an adapter because the adapter just ADDS resistance making you worse off than using no adapter at all. Same with the 4-pin/8-pin. If it works with four and you don't have an 8-pin, use the 4-pin instead of using an adapter.

 

[Foxery]

The EarthWatts 430 will power this system. At most, its fan will spin up and get noisy if you draw more power by overclocking the CPU.

Originally posted by: Davegod
I don't know if it is needed. IIRC the 4 pin actually fits in the 8 pin slot so it's quite plausable you don't.

Correct. Double check your motherboard's manual, but my Abit IP35 specifically says that using a 4-pin plug is just fine if you don't have one with all 8.

 

[jonnyGURU]

Originally posted by: Foxery
The EarthWatts 430 will power this system.

Sure. But for how long?

Originally posted by: Foxery
At most, its fan will spin up and get noisy if you draw more power by overclocking the CPU.

Oh yeah.. that's certainly an ideal condition.

 

[Foxery]

Some people don't mind fan noise... just giving him fair warning.

Antec tests these at 50C, and his system will only max out this PSU if he pushes his overclocking limits.

 

[jonnyGURU]

They test the continuous power at 50°C, but not the MTBF.

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: Foxery
The EarthWatts 430

The OP has a True Power, not EarthWatts. Now, if it is actually the original True Power unit with the dual fans, then... weren't those the ones that died after a few years from bulging caps? I had one that was pretty reliable, and indeed it is still working to this day, but I wouldn't trust an 8800GT to it. It only puts out 26A on the +12v, which may be borderline for a Core 2 Duo and 8800GT, plus it would at least need to use a PCI-E adaptor.

I'd say start looking for a deal on a decent PSU. Couple times lately some nice Corsair 450VX units have been available at Buy.com for $55 after a $10 or so rebate and with free shipping.

 

[ther00kie16]

People need to check what they say first. 8800gt draws 138W load at stock, which is <12A. There's no way that the CPU will require close to 14A (168W). There have been tests done with Earthwatts 380w (27A on 12V) to run OCed e6600 and 8800gtx and max draw from wall was right at 400W. Assuming 80% efficiency, that's 320W, which leaves a bit of headroom. Now, since the 8800gt draws less than a 8800gtx and e8400 should draw less than e6600, 26A should be just fine.

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: ther00kie16
which leaves a bit of headroom

It depends on what amount of "headroom" you're comfortable with.

HardOCP's test at 80% output continuously and call it a "torture test." Some people are more comfortable at 50% or 60%.

The other thing is that I'm learning there are some limitations to the typical cheap power meters (such as Power Angel or Kill-a-Watt). They often don't catch quick spikes of power, so while you see, say, 300W while maxing out your system, potentially power draw is spiking 1W, 10W, 50W above that on occasion. The other thing is that there are occasions with demonstratable and repeatable results where APFC throws off the numbers so that the reported number, say 300W, is not the AC power draw from the wall but closer to the DC power draw of the components, so you think your components are drawing 240W after accounting for 80% efficiency, when really your system is drawing 375W from the wall.

The other thing is that the capacitors age over time, and thus the max output of a PSU will deteriorate to some degree over its life.

Heat can also play a role, as higher heat = lower output. This mostly affects cheap PSUs because those aren't rated at high heat. However, the original Antec TruePower PSUs are known for running at really low fan speeds and thus really high temperatures.

I am neither a proponent of spending too much cash on too huge a PSU, nor a proponent of using the cheapest that powers up the system because "it works." There is no set amount of power that a particular computer needs because not only does it depend on how much power the system draws (both in actuality or theoretically), but as well the "quality" of a PSU, the age of the PSU, the "quality" of the available AC current, the comfort level of the computer owner with regards to how close to limits they are willing to run their PSU, and of course the available budget of the owner of the computer.

Really wealthy? Well, why not spend a couple bucks more. Really poor? Well, if it works then use it for a bit longer. Frequent brownouts and "noisy" AC power? Consider a line conditioner or a better PSU. See, not everything has to do with "parts use X amount of power so buy power supply with Y rating."

With that being said, I'd still like to know WHICH Antec TruePower 430W grifter12 really has. Is it the original? is it the TruePowerII? Is it the TruePower Trio? That may affect our recommendations due to our knowledge of the age, (non)failure history and OEM of the PSU.

 

[grifter12]

I'm surprised and delighted at the activity and help in this thread. I checked the side of my PSU and it just said TruePower. I'll look closer later on to see if there's anything to indicate revision. I bought this case about 3 years ago and am fairly certain that it's not a TruePowerII or Trio.

I don't plan on OCing, BTW, but that's kind of moot now since a friend is mailing me a TP Trio 550W.

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: grifter12
that's kind of moot now since a friend is mailing me a TP Trio 550W.

The Trio 550W is :thumbsup: for powering your system.

Sounds as if your old one is an original TruePower. I would still not recommend those because:
1) Near borderline +12v output.
2) Several years old, meaning possible component/capacitor aging.
3) "Known" problem with bursting capacitors resulting in a higher failure rate than considered normal.
4) Does not have more "modern" plugs such as 8 pin EATX, 24 pin ATX, 6 pin PCI-E. Can be resolved by adaptors but those add a hair of resistance plus if you're going to be spending $5-10 on adaptors, may as well put that towards a new unit.

 

[Fatalist]

Are there different versions of the True Power 430?
I have the same basic question (E8400/8800GT/HD/DVD) with the same PSU but I thought the side of my PSU said 20Amps for +12V
Maybe I just misread my PSU

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: Fatalist
Are there different versions of the True Power 430?

Possibly. I think they went through a revision without renaming them. The other thing is that there's the True Power and the True Power II and True Power Trio.

 

[solog]

Originally posted by: ther00kie16
People need to check what they say first.

that sounds good

Originally posted by: ther00kie16
8800gt draws 138W load at stock, which is <12A.

are you aware that Nvidia claims a maximum draw of 105W?