upgrading am2 socket amd

[pmv]

I'm vaguely toying with the idea of upgrading my ageing 3800+ /am2 to a 6400+ x2.

To be honest the main reason is to get better frame rates in oblivion or stalker etc. For non game stuff what I have is already overpowered.

I gather that AMD have currently fallen well behind intel (I'm sure when I got this system over 18 months ago AMD had the best bang for buck - oh well times change). So ideally it would be nice to switch back to Intel now but I really don't know that its worth changing motherboards at this point. That seems a much bigger job not to mention the driver/windows validation hassles.

The Phenom's, I gather, are not all that impressive. So I reckon a straight switch to 6400 X2 would be the simplest upgrade.

Fact is I've never yet installed a processor so this would be a learning experience anyway.

Any pitfalls I need to be aware of?

Have Asus m2n motherboard. Will be getting a new PSU imminently as I don't trust my current one any more (thinking of 750W Corsair TX).

Am I likely to need to reflash the bios? Is it OK to install a new processor without removing motherboard from the case, or would there be a problem putting pressure on the heatsink lever? How tricky is it to apply heat transfer paste properly (do cpus all come with paste now, I seem to remember them coming with a sort of sticky pad at one time, or am I imagining that?)


And what percentage of user attempted CPU upgrades result in disaster, do you know?
Ta.

 

[nyker96]

I think it will definitely give ya aboost in games. Also I don't know how much this upgrade will cost you but you also need to consider the possibility of putting that cash into a new g-card which will boost frame rate much more. Also if your board can OC, I would think you can push that 3800+ well beyond its default seed thus nullify the need of a 6400+ x2.

If u end up upgrading, probably little risk involved. Just flash BIOS _before_ you take out that older 3800+ so your new chip will be recognized. That's the only pitfall you need to know about. As for PSU, if you already got a decent brand name 500W I think you okay. Don't know the rest of ur system to say for sure though. A 750W probably not needed unless you do SLI or Xfire setups and using the absolute newest gen power GPUs.

If you want better advices, post the full system spec here. People can better advice you with that info.

 

[error8]

The 6400+ is a terrible upgrade really. It's quite expensive and power hungry. You'll be better just by getting a 5000+ BE and learn how to overclock it ( upping only the multiplier) and 2,9-3 ghz with the stock cooler is quite easy I guess.
Changing a cpu is a very simple thing to do. Just follow the instructions in the cpu manual and maybe from the mobo manual too and yes you can change it without getting the mobo out. Also, if you'll search these forums you'll find informations about how to apply thermal paste.

There is also the possibility to have to make a bios flash for this cpu. This procedure is largely explained on the Asus website and forums.
It's better if you post the rest of your system so we can advise you better.

 

[iBPJohn]

I agree the 5000BE is quite a bit cheaper and should run cooler. Plus it's only $77 vs $145, so you could get a really nice HSF for it.
But do keep in mind that the 5000BE doesn't come with a stock HSF.

 

[Marty502]

Agreed on the 5000BE. The 6400 isn't worth it, unless you need to run your computer fully stock for some ungodly reason.

 

[error8]

Originally posted by: iBPJohn

But do keep in mind that the 5000BE doesn't come with a stock HSF.

Yes, but he can reuse the cooler from the 3800+, since that is quite the one that AMD puts in all the boxes of the single and dual core models.

 

[pmv]

OK.

@nyker96
I have a 8800GT, so reckon I'm more CPU limited than GPU limited. I think my current psu is probably rubbish, and fear it might blow up like a previous one once did so intend replacing it ASAP. People seem to rate Corsair (only psus I can find that people here don't seem to think are rubbish are Corsair and OCZ), and that 750W one seems best price that I can find, compared to lower wattage ones, and I think maybe running something a long way short of its max rating would ensure it doesn't overstress it, plus I might one day want to go sli.

@others
What is the difference between the 5000BE and the 5000? I am guessing the BE is not multiplier locked or something? Dubious about overclocking because I don't want to risk any disk corruption problems.

Hmm, amazon say the BE is 65nm die as opposed to the normal 90nm die, is that the crucial point, or is that an amazon typo?

Prices seem to be BE £77, nonBE £60 (ish), 6400+ £112, so the BE here seems to be closer to the 6400+ than the normal 5000

Also at first glance seem to be different 5000+ available, some called 'energy efficient' and some not. Does this mean anything? Also noticed on one site some X2s say '65 watt' and some don't say anything.

Plus here the 5000+ with heatsink and fan is described as 'low power version', though its still 90nm.
http://www.aria.co.uk/Products...M2%29+?productId=31422

Or the 'low power version' of the 5600+
http://www.aria.co.uk/Products...M2%29+?productId=31957
which says 65nm

I'm guessing then that there are variations in the specs of the different X2 models that I didn't realise? I was assuming they just differed in speed. Could someone explain this to me! Is the point to get a 'low power version'?

The drawback with reusing existing heatsink/fan is that it would presumably mean having to remove existing heat-paste, another opportunity for me to screw something up!

Also does the (X1) 3800+ have the same heatsink as the X2 5000+?

Thanks for any further elucidation.

Edit - OK, I get it now, the faster chips are actually larger die sizes, the slower chips are either 65 or 90, and obviously the smaller die size is lower power consumption. And the black ed 5000+ is non multiplier locked, but over here it seems a bit pricey compared to the other models.

Hmmm. My main thought is why didn't I get an Intel motherboard in the first place! (Because I couldn't afford dual core and the 64 was clearly better than the P4).

 

[error8]

5000+ BE has an unlocked multiplier that allows you to overclock just the cpu and not other components. It's on 65 nm which means lower power consumption over the 6000-6400+ that uses the 90nm manufacture process. The 5000+ BE generates only 65 W opposed to the 6400+ 125 W ( double the heat ). It has its drawback since it has only 512X2 kb of level 2 cache opposed to 1024X2 kb for the 6400+, this translates in some performance hit in some games or programs.

When you'll remove the heatsink and change the cpu, you'll also have to change the thermal paste. You can reuse the old one, but that will mean a poor contact between the chip and the cooler, that will translate into much higher temperatures.
And yes, the 3800+ has the same heatsink as the 5000+ ( non BE) since the 5000+ BE, like iBPJohn said, doesn't have its own cooler.

We advise you to take the 5000+BE only from the price/performance point of view. We're not saying that it's faster then the 6400+, but it's cheaper, cooler and easy to take it to 3-3,3 ghz so it can match the 6400+. If you think it's better for you to get the 6400+, then go for it, we only tried to "protect" your pocket.

 

[pmv]

Oh, cheers for that. Just edited my post, as I just googled some of that info. I'm going to have to think about this. The business of removing the old paste is a complication that puts me off a little, given my lack of experience at cpu installation.

 

[error8]

*deleted

 

[daveybrat]

Originally posted by: pmv
OK.

@nyker96
I have a 8800GT, so reckon I'm more CPU limited than GPU limited. I think my current psu is probably rubbish, and fear it might blow up like a previous one once did so intend replacing it ASAP. People seem to rate Corsair (only psus I can find that people here don't seem to think are rubbish are Corsair and OCZ), and that 750W one seems best price that I can find, compared to lower wattage ones, and I think maybe running something a long way short of its max rating would ensure it doesn't overstress it, plus I might one day want to go sli.

@others
What is the difference between the 5000BE and the 5000? I am guessing the BE is not multiplier locked or something? Dubious about overclocking because I don't want to risk any disk corruption problems.

Hmm, amazon say the BE is 65nm die as opposed to the normal 90nm die, is that the crucial point, or is that an amazon typo?

Prices seem to be BE £77, nonBE £60 (ish), 6400+ £112, so the BE here seems to be closer to the 6400+ than the normal 5000

Also at first glance seem to be different 5000+ available, some called 'energy efficient' and some not. Does this mean anything? Also noticed on one site some X2s say '65 watt' and some don't say anything.

Plus here the 5000+ with heatsink and fan is described as 'low power version', though its still 90nm.
http://www.aria.co.uk/Products...M2%29+?productId=31422

Or the 'low power version' of the 5600+
http://www.aria.co.uk/Products...M2%29+?productId=31957
which says 65nm

I'm guessing then that there are variations in the specs of the different X2 models that I didn't realise? I was assuming they just differed in speed. Could someone explain this to me! Is the point to get a 'low power version'?

The drawback with reusing existing heatsink/fan is that it would presumably mean having to remove existing heat-paste, another opportunity for me to screw something up!

Also does the (X1) 3800+ have the same heatsink as the X2 5000+?

Thanks for any further elucidation.

Edit - OK, I get it now, the faster chips are actually larger die sizes, the slower chips are either 65 or 90, and obviously the smaller die size is lower power consumption. And the black ed 5000+ is non multiplier locked, but over here it seems a bit pricey compared to the other models.

Hmmm. My main thought is why didn't I get an Intel motherboard in the first place! (Because I couldn't afford dual core and the 64 was clearly better than the P4).

PMV, get the 5600+ you linked to. I just upgraded from a 4600+ to the 5600+. Comes with a heatsink/fan and is the fastest (2.9GHz) AMD cpu that also runs the coolest and only 65Watt power consumption compared to the ungodly 125Watts of the 6400+

That would be a big jump from what you have without the added heat and stress on your motherboards mosfets.

 

[nyker96]

@pmv: Since you got a 8800GT, I do agree that you are CPU limited for sure. So now question is which CPU. If you going to overclock, I think 5000BE is best with unlocked multiplier it's much easier. But if not then something like 6400 still suitable.

On the question of PSU: Some of the better brands are: PC Power and Cooling, Corsair and Seasonic. All three are more expensive than a normal brand for their wattage but they are worth the price. They sport higher quality electronic components and in case of Corsair a nice 5 year warranty policy. If you are short on cash, Antec Earthwatts are quite economical and all their models are build to good quality. Buying a good PSU becomes important when you planning on overclocking either/both your 8800GT and the CPU.

I would also recommend you get a aftermarket CPU cooler, weather or not you plan to overclock. Something nice like OCZ Vendetta 2 or Tuniq 120 or TRUE. Will go a long way in protecting your investments.

Edit: ANother thought I would consider is to do a complete remake:
sell off both motherboard/cpu
get: Intel E7200/E7300 with a nice P35 board like Gigabyte DS3L or abit P35/P35-E
then overclock that chip to 3.5-4Ghz. You will be opening your system to a whole new world of performance level, especially in games.

 

[pmv]

Thanks for all the advice.

I'm having a very hard time making a decision on this. Part of me is tempted to do as nyker96 suggests and switch to intel. Trouble is then I start thinking if I'm gonna scrap the motherboard as well as the psu and the cpu I might as well buy a new bare bones machine and get that antec 900 case I've been tempted by as well (I mean, I like my apollo NXZT, but I really like that top fan concept and the generous helping of included fans), and that way I can pay someone to do the difficult bits of construction for me, and sell off existing machine as a going conern... but then can I justify that sort of cost? I usually only buy a new box every 3 years.

Am leaning towards the x2 5600+, as being the fastest lo-power chip I can get that doesn't require overclocking. Wish AMD would reduce their prices though, given how much intel is outperforming them now.

Is there any chance AMD will, in the immediate future, release a low power 65nm version of the 6000+ or 6400+ or are they done with that range now? Did they release all the low power x2s at once or did they progressively release the higher speeds?

 

[heyheybooboo]

Best bang for your pound
X2 Dual Core 5000+ 2.60GHz
£50.47 inc. VAT

It would be simple if you wish to bump the clock from 200MHz to 215MHz and you will be running 2.8GHz at stock volts with your ram speed at 800MHz. That Asus mobo is 'sweet' and should suit your needs going forward for several years. You'd be a real wanker if you replaced it!

You will not be cpu limited (even at stock 2.6GHz). The higher the resolution at which you play the more the gpu is the deciding factor.

The HSF that comes with the cpu has thermal paste applied. Handle the microprocessor with your thumb and forefinger on opposite edges and avoid touching the pins. Line up the gold triangle on the cpu with the triangle on the mobo cpu socket - it will drop right in.

Provide gentle pressure on the center of the processor and lower the lever locking the cpu onto the mobo. Attaching the AMD HSF is a simple matter of placing the each end of the bracket which holds the heatsink over each end of the retention mechanism - and then flipping a lever to lock it down.

No muss - no fuss

 

[taltamir]

i upgraded the x 3800 to a 6400... it was faster, but not nearly enough... i immidiatly returned it and got a P35 board with an E8400, the benefit was as large going 6400 to E8400 then it was going from 3800 to 6400.
I wonder how much better it will get if I actually try to OC.

 

[WA261]

6400 is a great chip and OC's fine. I did an upgrade on my work rig...X2 6400\ 2GB PC2 6400\ DFI K9A2 for $240. Nothing fancy but the OC to 3.5 right off the bat with crappy cooling is awesome. Also using an Enermax 550w and an 8800gt. You will be happy with your choice.

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo
You will not be cpu limited (even at stock 2.6GHz). The higher the resolution at which you play the more the gpu is the deciding factor.

With an 8800GT, he'll be CPU-bound even @ 1920x1200, unless he's got the AA cranked too high.

 

[pmv]

Just noticed that Asus's site doesn't actually list the 5600+ 65nm 1mb cache low power version as supported by most recent bios

http://support.asus.com/cpusup...nguage=en-us&model=M2N

Stupid page lists the 5400+ 65nm 65w and the 5600 2mb cache 89w versions but not the one I'm interested in, 5600+ 65w that is clearly listed as existing here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athlon_64_X2

Might be a dumb question, but does that mean the bios will set the cpu voltage too high for that cpu?