Upgrades

CP5670

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2004
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I'm looking to upgrade my computer and wanted some advice on what to get. I basically want faster performance in newer FPS games, which are mostly unplayable on my current setup, and to a lesser extent in math computation (FPU intensive) programs. It would be good if the combined upgrade costs stay around or below $1000. This is what I have right now:
Athlon (tbird) 1.4ghz
Asus A7N8X (nF2) motherboard
512MB PC3200 memory (2x generic 256 sticks, running at 2100 speeds atm)
Geforce 3 (original)
antec 400w PSU

I probably would want to get a Socket A/462 processor to avoid having to spend money on a new mobo (which I already had to do nine months ago) and there seem to be a couple of choices. The AXP 3200 400mhz is around $180, which seems rather high considering that the significantly faster A64 2800 is about the same price. Not sure if I should get a slower one and overclock it or just play it safe and go for a faster rated one. How well do the AXPs overclock and how effective are the coolers included in the retail boxes? Do these processors have fixed clock multipliers or can they be changed? Although I have done a bit of overclocking in the past, I only changed the multipliers and don't know much about what changing FSBs or voltages involves, but it's something I might look into if it saves a lot of money.

How much would bumping the memory to 768MB or even 1024MB improve performance? There is still a free memory slot on the mobo. Also, is it okay to use memory modules of different sizes? (if I go up to 768, I can just add in a third 256 dimm but going to 1024 would mean adding a 512 along with the existing 256s)

For the graphics unit, I am thinking about the Geforce 6800 GT (the BFG one) or the Radeon X800 XT PE, although I'm going to wait until both of these are available in larger quantities. The radeon is faster and still compatible with my PSU (and I'm willing to spend some more for the speed), but will the processor, which would be a generation older than both of these, produce a major bottleneck? If that's the case then the GT would seem to be a better choice, especially given the overclockability. Also, is there a (cheaper) non-PE XT for AGP like there is for PCI express?
 

CP5670

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2004
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just bumping this. very active place here; a topic goes to the third page in just five hours. :D
 

Cannabis

Member
Apr 15, 2004
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I would get -

A64 ~3200
MB with nforce 3 250gb chipset
Another 512mb of pc3200 (1GB total)
6800gt (your power upply is fine)
Pocket the rest or get a raptor or something
 

skypilot

Golden Member
Mar 20, 2000
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I would get whatever is the bets overclocking barton right now and a faster video card. Your motherboard and RAM should be OK for newer games. More RAM would be next, in my opinion.
 

CP5670

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2004
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Originally posted by: Cannabis
I would get -

A64 ~3200
MB with nforce 3 250gb chipset
Another 512mb of pc3200 (1GB total)
6800gt (your power upply is fine)
Pocket the rest or get a raptor or something

so you think a new motherboard for an A64 would be worth it? I'm leaning towards staying with an AXP for now so I don't have to buy a new motherboard (and instead spending more money on a video card), but if the performance difference is really big then I might take the A64 option. Although in that case I might as well wait a month or two for 939 cpus and motherboards to come down in price.

Originally posted by: skypilotI would get whatever is the bets overclocking barton right now and a faster video card. Your motherboard and RAM should be OK for newer games. More RAM would be next, in my opinion.

What processor and cooler models in particular are good choices?
 

StrangerGuy

Diamond Member
May 9, 2004
8,443
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Originally posted by: CP5670
What processor and cooler models in particular are good choices?

The mobile 2400+/2500+ Barton would be a great overclocker. Most will do at least 2.4GHz with minimal voltage increase, and they are fully unlocked and have a significant voltage headroom.

I don't have much experience with AXP OC HSFs, hopefully someone knowledgeable about AXP OCing will come in here and recommend some good HSFs.
 

CP5670

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2004
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Newegg has the mobile 2500 for $88, which looks good. The slower 133mhz FSB means that pushing it to 200 and leaving the multiplier the same would already set it to 2.7ghz though, which seems kind of high. Do these CPUs operate stably at such speeds or should I be turning down the multiplier a bit? I don't think changing the FSB will affect the AGP/PCI speeds on an nforce2 motherboard, but I'm not quite sure about that. Also, about how far can I go with the vcore setting and still be fairly safe?

Any heatsink/fan recommendations to go with this? I have heard good things about some of the Thermalright heatsinks, but those are pretty expensive and I don't know of any fans to go with them. My current heatsink is okay (FCE-62540D) but there are definiely much better ones out now.

I investigated the video cards a bit more and it looks like the X800 XT needs one of the latest processors to run at full power in most cases, so the 6800 GT would definitely be a better choice for me. How far does the GT usually overclock using just the stock cooler?
 

CP5670

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2004
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bump

any ideas on the HSF? The Thermalright SLK-948U seems to be highly regarded but is a bit pricey considering it doesn't come with a fan, and I am not sure if it's really needed to get up to about 2.3ghz.
 

mechBgon

Super Moderator<br>Elite Member
Oct 31, 1999
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I have an Alpha PAL8150 myself, takes standard 80mm x 25mm or 80mm x 15mm fans: photo spread of Mr. Alpha and a photo of it installed in the case for scale.

I like it, it's got a Vantec Stealth on it at the moment. But from what others have posted about their temps on the same mobo I've got, I think the stock retail cooler probably cools just as well or better. Granted, they're probably louder than an 8150 with a Stealth, though.
 

SneakyStuff

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2004
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Just overclock your T-BIRD and have fun with it for a bit, the Athlon 64's should be a bit cheaper come august. And overclock the GeForce 3 while you're at it, squeeze some extra life out of your system. That's what i'd do, otherwise, get an Athlon 64, 3200+, an nforce 3 mobo, some nice PC3200 RAM, and a Radeon 9800 pro. :)
 

Illissius

Senior member
May 8, 2004
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Depending on how much money you want to spend:

Athlon XP-M 2400+ 35W / 2600+ 45W - somewhere from $50-$100, dunno AXP prices really
Radeon 9800 Pro - $200
512MB PC3200 - $80
Zalman CNPS7000A-AlCu $36 / -Cu $41 / Thermalright SLK947U + fan / SP-97 + fan (dunno, somewhere $40-60)

And that'll hold you pretty well for a while, for under $500.

Otherwise,

Asus K8N-E Deluxe - $140-150
Athlon 64 3000+ $210
GeForce 6800GT or Radeon X800XT PE (depending on which you can find at a price closer to MSRP, or find at all, for that matter - the 6800GT is in stock at evga's website)
512MB PC3200 - $80
Zalman CNPS7000A-AlCu $35 / -Cu $40 / Thermalright SLK948U + fan ($40-50)

That's a bit under $1000, and will be quite a lot faster. The 6800GT is twice as fast as the 9800 Pro, and the X800XT PE is even more than that (by 20-30% or so). You'll be able to overclock the CPU from 2GHz to 2.4-2.5GHz; considering that a 1.8GHz A64 is on par with a 2.4GHz AXP *at games*, that's pretty fast.

I won't tell you which one to buy, since I probably couldn't decide myself. Depends on what you'd spend the money on otherwise, I suppose.


The radeon is ... still compatible with my PSU
I don't quite get your meaning here - did you mean that as opposed to the 6800GT, or that it's the fastest card that's still compatible? The 6800GT is also compatible, and there isn't anything faster than the X800XT PE... (well, except possibly the 6800UE, which only exists theoretically)

will the processor, which would be a generation older than both of these, produce a major bottleneck?
If by this you mean the 1.4GHz TBird, then yes. If you mean an Athlon XP, it'll be a bottleneck up to 1280x1024, but at 1600x1200 AA+AF it'll be entirely video card dependant (also depends on the game, though, your CPU will limit Q3 a lot more than it will Far Cry). No idea about what the newer games will need.

Also, is there a (cheaper) non-PE XT for AGP like there is for PCI express?
Not that I'm aware of.

any ideas on the HSF? The Thermalright SLK-948U seems to be highly regarded but is a bit pricey considering it doesn't come with a fan, and I am not sure if it's really needed to get up to about 2.3ghz.
The Thermalrights and Zalmans are pretty close in performance, the Thermalrights usually slightly better. The Zalmans are optimized for best cooling while being quiet/silent, while Thermalrights do their best with high CFM (= noisy) fans.
 

CP5670

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2004
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Sorry for the delay in replying; I was really busy for the last few days.

Originally posted by: Illissius
Depending on how much money you want to spend:

Athlon XP-M 2400+ 35W / 2600+ 45W - somewhere from $50-$100, dunno AXP prices really
Radeon 9800 Pro - $200
512MB PC3200 - $80
Zalman CNPS7000A-AlCu $36 / -Cu $41 / Thermalright SLK947U + fan / SP-97 + fan (dunno, somewhere $40-60)

And that'll hold you pretty well for a while, for under $500.

Otherwise,

Asus K8N-E Deluxe - $140-150
Athlon 64 3000+ $210
GeForce 6800GT or Radeon X800XT PE (depending on which you can find at a price closer to MSRP, or find at all, for that matter - the 6800GT is in stock at evga's website)
512MB PC3200 - $80
Zalman CNPS7000A-AlCu $35 / -Cu $40 / Thermalright SLK948U + fan ($40-50)

That's a bit under $1000, and will be quite a lot faster. The 6800GT is twice as fast as the 9800 Pro, and the X800XT PE is even more than that (by 20-30% or so). You'll be able to overclock the CPU from 2GHz to 2.4-2.5GHz; considering that a 1.8GHz A64 is on par with a 2.4GHz AXP *at games*, that's pretty fast.

I won't tell you which one to buy, since I probably couldn't decide myself. Depends on what you'd spend the money on otherwise, I suppose.

Thanks a lot for the suggestions. I think I will settle with the XP mobile 2500 processor ($88 on newegg) and everything else from your second group. I would not have to spend anything on a motherboard this way (especially since it looks like the A64 mobos are in a something of a transition period right now, with extra features/better prices likely in a month or two) and would still get pretty good game performance. From what you said below about the processor bottleneck, it looks like there would only be a significant difference in math calculations anyway, where the speed is not as important as in a game.

For the graphics unit, I am leaning a bit towards the 6800 GT due to its overclocking capability and some issues with ATI's latest drivers in one of my games, but I will pick up either one if I can find a good in-stock price. It looks like the evga site only has the GT for preorders though. I will wait a week or two on the video card front for the quantities and prices to get better.

I don't quite get your meaning here - did you mean that as opposed to the 6800GT, or that it's the fastest card that's still compatible? The 6800GT is also compatible, and there isn't anything faster than the X800XT PE... (well, except possibly the 6800UE, which only exists theoretically)

Sorry if that was confusing. I meant that it would be faster and still compatible as opposed to the 6800 ultra, which is faster but needs a more powerful PSU.

If by this you mean the 1.4GHz TBird, then yes. If you mean an Athlon XP, it'll be a bottleneck up to 1280x1024, but at 1600x1200 AA+AF it'll be entirely video card dependant (also depends on the game, though, your CPU will limit Q3 a lot more than it will Far Cry). No idea about what the newer games will need.

Yeah, I meant with an AXP processor. With the latest video cards I guess I will probably be using the higher resolutions and graphical modes in most games, so the processor would be less important there.

The Thermalrights and Zalmans are pretty close in performance, the Thermalrights usually slightly better. The Zalmans are optimized for best cooling while being quiet/silent, while Thermalrights do their best with high CFM (= noisy) fans.

I don't really care about the noise as I always use headphones anyway, but I would of course like to keep the costs down where possible. I will take a look at that Zalman copper one you mentioned though, as the performance does look fairly close to the Thermalright one on hardware sites.

The arctic silver 5 paste works better than the thermal pads that most heatsinks come with, right? I already have some of that stuff so I might as well use it.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,791
6,351
126
1gb of PC3200 for sure, it's a must
6800 or x800 fastest you can find of either
You should be able to afford a A64/mobo within the $1k, but overclocking a Mobile XP 2500+ would save some money
 

howdyduty

Senior member
Feb 21, 2001
490
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0
AXP Mobile and overclock; 1GB PC3200, 6800GT. Save from A64 and spend on that 6800GT. Would be a great system with minimal work. If 6800GT is to expensive, the Radeon 9800Pro would be a good value.