Upgraded to x3-720 from s939, questions about overclocking

[poohbear]

Hey all, finally upgraded to a x3-720 from the sys in my sig after, oh, almost 3 years, and im loving it! Gaming has seen double the fps! something i couldnt have gotten from upgrading vid card alone as i have'nt seen any that would double my 8800gt framerates at a reasonable price point. I went w/a 770 amd chipset (gigabyte MA770-UD3, the one recommended in anandtech's budget build) cause i figured if i got the 720 w/ multiplier unlocked i didnt need to splurge on an expensive chipset yea? (only the foxconn a7a-s 790fx was available at a low price point but read many complaints about its bios & its multipliers not working).

Anyways, just couple of questions regarding overclocking:

1.) "cool n quiet" should be turned off right? i turned it off in my old x939 DFI expert but dont know if its compatible w/ overclocking these days.

2.) w/ the x3 720 BE i just up the multiplier and all the other parameters can stay the same right?(HTT, ram, fsb, etc) easy breezy yea?


thanks in advance.

 

[LoneNinja]

Yeah, it's really as easy as just upping the multiplier, however eventually you'll need to raise the cpu vcore as well to maintain stability. You should also consider overclocking your north bridge as that helps improve performance because the L3 cache runs at the same speed at the northbridge in K10 cpus.

The Cool n Quiet question is some what iffy. I've got a Gigabyte 780G based motherboard, where if I leave cool n quiet enabled and overclock, it just automatically disables cool n quiet. However I've also got 2 Biostar 790Gx boards what work just fine with cool n quiet while they are overclocked.

 

[poohbear]

thanks loneninja, well if its a 45nm cpu, do i really need it to be "cool n quiet"?? lol my old 95nm opty 165 was overclocked to 2.8 24/7 and it was fine and dandy w/ cool n quiet off. Also, i'm curious if the feature is reliable and consistent, does it sometimes make things stutter when it changes the multiplier and is the cpu always running @ full speed for apps that need it?

I'll research the NB overclocking bit, never heard that before and im curious as to the performance increase from that. I splurged a little extra to get 4-4-4-12 ram timings @ ddr800 (patriot memory, all i could find around here that would work @ 2.1v w/ CL4 ).

cheers.

and WOW just WOW can't believe im playing crysis warhead w/ enthusiast settings just from a cpu & ram upgrade (couldnt get 4gb to work on dfi expert, it was picky as hell, so only had 2gb). that game was a stutter fest @ gamer settings w/ my old rig! bootiful!!

 

[Sylvanas]

Disable Cool n Quiet, it just causes problems when overclocking. Yes, it is very easy to overclock with these black edition CPUs, infact my last 3 CPus have been black editions . You may want to have a quick read through my 955 overclocking thread for some useful info on overclocking these Phenom 2's. Firstly I would say you need to find the max CPU Core speed and after that go to overclocking the Northbridge. NB overclocking is just as beneficial as CPu core speed overclocking so it is definitely worth doing with these CPUs. Indeed these P2s are fast and I was amazed at the difference in games which I certainly didnt expect.

 

[poohbear]

thanx for the link sylvanas, i'll look into that NB overclocking but im guessing im gonna hafta go aftermarket cooling because my NB is @ 81c (yep, 80c, that's apperently the norm w/ the gigabyte MA770UD3, temps are always around there regrardless of load or idle. it has a crappy passive heatsink which i'll replace w/ a Thermal Right HR05 shortly). i currently have a massive TT Big Typhoon on the cpu and its keeping it cool as snow on crack.

btw cool n quiet disabled automaticly once i changed the cpu multiplier, so guess this mobo doesnt support both at the same time like those biostars.

 

[poohbear]

argh, the cpu fails @ 3600mhz w/ 1.425vcore (18x200). only 5 minutes of p95 makes the comp restart. im pretty sure 1.450 isnt gonna make much of a diff (maybe it'll fail in 30min instead of 5, but it'll still fail & be unstable). not to comfortable going above 1.45 as i read its pretty bad for 45nm cpus. Had to clock back to 3500mhz @ 1.40.

3500mhz is a bit of a disappointment considering its only a 25% increase, my old opty 165 showed an incredible 50% overclock. Same w/ my ancient T-bred B athlon waaaaayyy back in the day. Oh well, its still loads faster than my overclocked opty 165 even at stock speeds, so an extra 700mhz is icing on the cake.

 

[Sylvanas]

You may want to check this out which Lopri linked in another thread, very interesting concerning overclocking and max voltages for these chips (especially the X3 720 BE).

 

[poohbear]

thanks again sylvanas, i read that earlier but i was still wary as i recall anandtech saying in their discussions w/ intel that 45nm chips should not go beyond 1.45. I missed the part in that article wherein the "amd guru" clarifies that AMDs "should be ok" in 1.45-1.55 range. well, why not then! lol 1.5 here i come!

EDIT: btw i was reading anandtech's adventures in overclocking the x3-720, and im a bit confused as to the vcore they used for their max stable overclock, they state:

Our maximum overclock for both CPU speed ended up at a 19x200HTT setting. This resulted in a 3.813GHz processor clock speed with Northbridge speed at 2809MHz. We set our Core VID to 1.55V, VDimm to 1.66V, CPU/NB Voltage to 1.4375V, and HT to 1.38V. on stock VCore with the X3 720 BE resulted in a 3.36GHz clock speed at a respectable 240HTT clock and Northbridge speed at 2400MHz. Memory speed is set to DDR3-1600 at 7-8-7-18 1T.

i'm confused about the stuff in bold, was their vcore 1.55v (the Core VID) or is it the 1.4375 (CPU/NB voltage)?

also where exactly is the NB speed displayed in their CPU-Z screenshot? is it the Bus speed, or the HT link or something else entirely?(the only 2400mhz i see in their screenshot is the HT link, but my understanding is that's the Hypertransport link which doesnt provide any performance increases for overclocking?) I always knew the NB speed to be the FSB, but that number is usually in the 200-240mhz range, not the ghz high numbers (eg 2400mhz-2600mhz) im seeing people referring to. Can anyone clarify what this NB overclocking is about?

Thanks for any clarification about any of that as im a bit new to K10.

 

[Sylvanas]

AMDs 45nm manufacturing process is not as finicky to voltage as Intels 45nm

Since AMD is still using Silicon on Insulator (SOI) technology for its 45nm products, it's less sensitive to voltage increments unlike Intel's 45nm with High-K MG.

it makes sense. Someone may chime in here with a more technical explanation but I think it has to do with less current leakage on Intels CPUs compared to AMD so more of the power is being effectively used. So go for it keep an eye on temps though.

 

[Sylvanas]

I see you edited your post so I will reply to what you said here

The Core VID (sometimes called Vcore in some manufacturers BIOS) is the primary setting here- it is what CPU-Z or any other programs will display as the CPUs current voltage. This is what you want to use to overclock the CPUs core speed.

The "CPU/NB Voltage' is an entirely different thing. This is the voltage that is responsible for increasing the Northbridge voltage (or NB VID). The Northbridge is a separate frequency to your CPUs core speed and it is very important. So say you have a CPU that runs at 3ghz, that's it's core speed, but that CPU will also have a 'northbridge' speed of say 2ghz- two different things. Northbridge reduces the L3 cache latency and is very important to improving all round performance.

You'll see the NB speed in the CPU-Z screenshot on the left hand side of the screenshots in the Anandtech article, it's under 'NB Frequency' in the 'Memory' tab of CPU-Z. The NB speed is calculated by taking your HTT (or 'Bus speed' in CPU-Z) and multiplying that by a number to reach your NB speed. So say you have a Bus speed of 200mhz (which is stock) and a NB multiplier of 10, that equates to a NB speed of 2GHZ or 200 x 10 = 2000mhz or 2ghz.

So all the overclocking you need to worry about to start with is with the use of multipliers and just crank them up. I would say however that I wouldn't go as far as AT did with a 1.55v in the CPU as it can get real hot by that time and it is right on borderline what is acceptable for the CPU, for me I'd stick to below 1.5v but as always mileage may vary and its overclocking so nothings guaranteed / at your own risk etc etc.

Hope this helps

 

[poohbear]

thanks sylvanas, u so rock. virtual beer for u!: <beer emoticon>

the problem for my mobo w/ NB overclocking is my NB is already running at 81c, so i can't possibly increase the NB voltage atm until i buy a new heatsink for it.

btw do i test NB stability w/ Prime95 as well?

 

[poohbear]

btw i just found out that the 81c temp is NOT my NB temp (its the TMPin3 in Amd Overdrive and tmp4 in Speedfan), its apparently the temp of an onboard sensor that is near the vid card and nobody knows what its for exactly. So no worries!

Bios reports sys temps at 39c w/ 1.425v and what i believe to be the NB temp (tmpin2 in AOD) fluctuates between 42c-55c, although i've never seen such a huge fluctuation on a passive heatsink before, so maybe that's not it.

On to NB overclocking then, and just wanna clarify is NB tested for stabiliy w/ P95 as well? thanks in advance.

 

[Sylvanas]

Originally posted by: poohbear
btw i just found out that the 81c temp is NOT my NB temp (its the TMPin3 in Amd Overdrive and tmp4 in Speedfan), its apparently the temp of an onboard sensor that is near the vid card and nobody knows what its for exactly. So no worries!

Bios reports sys temps at 39c w/ 1.425v and what i believe to be the NB temp (tmpin2 in AOD) fluctuates between 42c-55c, although i've never seen such a huge fluctuation on a passive heatsink before, so maybe that's not it.

On to NB overclocking then, and just wanna clarify is NB tested for stabiliy w/ P95 as well? thanks in advance.

Yeah or OCCT which I find is a bit better than P95 for testing.

 

[poohbear]

ok kool i'll try OCCT too, it looks new as i dont recall this app during my s939 overclocking days.

btw i settled on a 3500mhz overclock @ 1.425 instead of 3600mhz @ 1.50, just dont think the extra .75vcore is worth it for a mere 100mhz increase. Get the BSOD @ 3700mhz @ 1.55 after only 1 min of P95, so that's that as that's as far im willing to push the vcore.

i'll see how far i can push the NB now. cheers man.

 

[Sylvanas]

No problem, goodluck. I think default NB VID for X3 is around 1.2v so you can probably get 2.2-2.4ghz NB pretty easy.

 

[poohbear]

thanx again sylvanas, i can get it to boot w/ the 11x for 2200mhz (NB frequency), but if i try the 12x @ stock voltages it wont boot and i hafta clear the cmos.

Now, i have 2 settings for the NB in the bios, one is "CPU NB vid" and the other is "NB volt control". I'm assuming the "CPU NB vid" is the one i want yea? Is this controller on the cpu or the NB chipset?

Before i add voltage to an already overheated passive heatsink for the NB, is the voltage applied to the cpu or the northbridge chipset? If the latter i'll hafta wait until i get a new heatsink, if the former then i can apply it w/ no worries (like i said i got a massive TT Big Typhoon on the CPU so its cooled well).

cheers and thanks again for any clarification!

 

[Sylvanas]

I think you will need to raise the 'CPU NB VID' to raise the desired voltage- the other one may be the chip on the board itself. For a long time I was adjusting the wrong one, and then I discovered the 'NB VID' and it was smooth sailing from there. The NB is based on the CPU itself so raising the NB VID will only affect CPU temps. Best to use one first and if it doesn't provide any benefit try the other- these manufacturers usually mix around the names of these settings and it gets confusing- the same thing can come under different names in different motherboards and Bios. The NB VID should come stock at around 1.1-1.2v so look for the one that is in that range and that is what you are looking for. You got a nice chip there

 

[poohbear]

Thanks alot Sylvanas, everything is crystal clear now! If geekdom had a rockstar u'd be it and i'd be your groupie! wish i could rep u or something for all the help/. cheers.

 

[poohbear]

Sylvanas sorry just one more question, i can't find the CPU NB voltage reading in any of the apps i have (AOD, Speedfan, Everest, & BIOS). Only thing close is Everest displaying the NB as 1.1, but that would be the chipset, not the CPU/NB controller. I read in that bit-tech article that i shouldnt go over 1.5v with cpu/nb voltage. i got it @ 2600mhz but i had to give it +.325 to stabilize it, is that safe? since i dont know what the stock voltage is becuase its not displayed anywhere, im wondering if its safe? Under the CPU/NB voltage options in the BIOS it just says "normal voltage" & then +.025, +.05, +0.75 etc all the way up to +.600. In the bios +.400 to +.600 is highlighted in red, so that would be the danger zone.

i really really want to keep it @ 2600mhz because i noticed everything opens snappier and applications are so much faster to load, im quite shocked actually. Its almost instanteous for things to open @ 2600mhz (MS word, IE explorer, cpu-z, folders to open, everything!). Never realized things would be so much more responsive just by overclocking this controller. However, if my stock voltage is 1.2, and im giving it +0.325, that would be 1.525voltage. If its 1.1 then im only feeding it 1.425. CPU temps have gone up 4c, so its @ 55 underload which is still reasonable. what do u think, is it safe?

Thanks again for any feedback!

 

[Sylvanas]

Originally posted by: poohbear
Sylvanas sorry just one more question, i can't find the CPU NB voltage reading in any of the apps i have (AOD, Speedfan, Everest, & BIOS). Only thing close is Everest displaying the NB as 1.1, but that would be the chipset, not the CPU/NB controller. I read in that bit-tech article that i shouldnt go over 1.5v with cpu/nb voltage. i got it @ 2600mhz but i had to give it +.325 to stabilize it, is that safe? since i dont know what the stock voltage is becuase its not displayed anywhere, im wondering if its safe? Under the CPU/NB voltage options in the BIOS it just says "normal voltage" & then +.025, +.05, +0.75 etc all the way up to +.600. In the bios +.400 to +.600 is highlighted in red, so that would be the danger zone.

i really really want to keep it @ 2600mhz because i noticed everything opens snappier and applications are so much faster to load, im quite shocked actually. Its almost instanteous for things to open @ 2600mhz (MS word, IE explorer, cpu-z, folders to open, everything!). Never realized things would be so much more responsive just by overclocking this controller. However, if my stock voltage is 1.2, and im giving it +0.325, that would be 1.525voltage. If its 1.1 then im only feeding it 1.425. CPU temps have gone up 4c, so its @ 55 underload which is still reasonable. what do u think, is it safe?

Thanks again for any feedback!

AOD should have it, makesure you are using it in 'Advanced mode' in the settings panel and the NB VID should appear in the Voltage readouts in the 'Performance control' tab. AOD requires a bit of work on part of the mobo manufacturers to get it to work friendly so AODs usefulness and stability generally depends on manufacturers BIOS. There is another program Ive heard of called 'K10 Stat' which will do the same thing as AOD and display the voltages/settings etc- it may be a bit more complex but you should be able to determine your current CPU-NB VID by using this. There are many posts regarding the stock and frequently used voltages for P2s so have a look around Google aswell, although as you say you have to know what voltage you are currently at to begin with . From what I've read you dont want your actual NB VID voltage to exceed that of your CPUs Vcore so keep that in mind aswell.

 

[poohbear]

thanks for that, while i did i find it under advanced settings its reading the vcore & the CPU/NB vid as stock voltages (1.32 & 1.2 respectively), so its simply not registering the right voltages in the BIOS (vcore is 1.425, and cpu/nb defionetly isnt 1.2 when im giving it + .325). Same with k10stat, it just mirrors the results of AOD. Guess my mobo doesnt have that support then?

I've searched quite a bit trying to find someone w/ this mobo trying to push the cpu/nb controller, but no luck.

Whats sucks is it turns out +.325 is not stable as it failed OCCT after nearly 3 hours during my overnight testing, seems like i'll hafta try +.35 to get it completely stable. but without knowing the stock voltages, i might be doing a bit of damage to the cpu. I'm dying to keep it @ 2600mhz cause in daily operations its actually faster than going from 2.8-3.5 on the cpu core, or maybe that's a result of a combination of the 2 speeds.

What happens if the cpu/nb vid is higher than the vcore? because even if it is 1.1 stock then giving it +.35 to have it stable is going over my current vcore's 1.425.

 

[adawgdafab]

Hey poohbear, I see from your specs that it seems you settled with a 2400mhz NB. I have the same processor and motherboard as you do but I can't seem to get the NB multiplier over 10x no matter what voltage I give it. If I go to 11x it just fails to POST and I have to clear the CMOS. Can you give a screenshot of your bios settings so I can try and duplicate what you used?

 

[TurtleCrusher]

God i wish the X3 720 was around when I was CPU shopping.

:sigh:

I'll live with my quad