Upgrade or start from scratch *Update: Planning to build*

[Fingolfin269]

**UPDATE** (Post #13/#14 below)
I've decided to go ahead and build a new system basically falling somewhere in between the low and mid builds in the sticky. I've never been on the cutting edge so do not necessarily need something that is going to play max settings at 60fps at the highest resolution. In fact I plan to retain my current monitor which has a native res of 1680x1050.

Here is the part list of the build I'm currently looking at. Feel free to tear it apart. I'm trying to stay at <$750 or so including the OS. The build does include an SSD as well as a Blu-Ray reader.

Some questions:

1) Do you see any issue with the chosen parts?
2) Would you choose a different vid card? Processor? Etc. Assume for this decision the main budget cuts would be from the BRD and/or the SSD (preferably in that order).

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/MnDgNG

1. What YOUR PC will be used for. Gaming.

2. What YOUR budget is. Let's start with $750 max. Including OS.

3. What country YOU will be buying YOUR parts from. US

4. IF you're buying parts OUTSIDE the US, please post a link to the vendor you'll be buying from.
We can't be expected to scour the internet on your behalf, chasing down deals in your specific country... Again, help us, help YOU. Not Applicable

5. IF YOU have a brand preference. That means, are you an Intel-Fanboy, AMD-Fanboy, ATI-Fanboy, nVidia-Fanboy, Seagate-Fanboy, WD-Fanboy, etc. No pref but do want quality.

6. If YOU intend on using any of YOUR current parts, and if so, what those parts are. Not intending but may be able to snag a DVD writer from an old machine.

7. IF YOU plan on overclocking or run the system at default speeds. Default speeds.

8. What resolution, not monitor size, will you be using? 1680x1050 for now.

9. WHEN do you plan to build it? Note that it is usually not cost or time effective to choose your build more than a month before you actually plan to be using it. ASAP, likely within next couple of weeks. Looking for general direction now and may need some assistance with refinements if pricing changes much in next week or so.


**ORIGINAL POST**
I don't game quite as much as I used to but have been thinking about getting back into it. Haven't built a PC since probably 2003 and the Desktop I'm currently running is a Dell XPS 420 that I bought 5+ years ago. Scratch and Dent that I got for almost nothing. I did upgrade the vid card to a Geforce 9600 GT upon purchase though.

Current setup:
Windows 7
Q6600 2.4GHZ
3GB ram (upgrade limited by Win 7 being 32 bit I think)
Geforce 9600 GT

I guess I could upgrade the vid card again to something like a 750Ti but figure I'll still be severely bottle necked by my processor and ram.

What would you guys do? I know where I'm posting so figure the likely answer is that I need to build another PC and just go by the mid-range guide. Just thought I'd ask.

FYI, not really sure exactly what I'll be playing but my monitor is an LG L227WTG so would likely play at 1680 x 1050 unless I eventually upgrade the monitor.

 

[mfenn]

There's unfortunately not a lot to upgrade on that machine. It's an old Core 2 processor on a Dell motherboard and running DDR3. The 9600 GT isn't worthwhile for modern games either.

You could probably reuse the HDD and ODD on a new PC though.

 

[Arcanedeath]

I'd say it's start over time as that system is to old to meaningfully upgrade for modern games. For general use you could add an SSD but that wouldn't help gaming except for level load times.

 

[Valantar]

If the motherboard has a BIOS that supports the newer generation of C2Q processors, you could upgrade that quite significantly. I'm currently running a Q9450 (overclocked to ~a Q9770, 3.2GHz) with a Radeon 6950. The CPU is no real bottleneck for me at least. All reviews and articles I've read say pretty much the same - as long as you have a reasonably fast quad core, the CPU is not the bottleneck in most games today. Sure, you'll lose perhaps 10% off the top cards today, but the upgrades are still worthwhile.

You can get a Q9450 for cheap on Ebay (link).

Add a GTX 960 or Radeon R9 280/285 and some RAM (8GB is plenty for most games) and you'd have a computer that handles modern games at excellent settings and resolutions, and would play very well at your resolution for a few years still.

Of course, you need to get a 64 bit windows installation. That is a serious limitation. But, in fact, you might be able to get that just by getting a hold of a 64-bit install disc and using your current key - I've upgraded both retail and OEM installations of W7 from 32 to 64-bit that way. Of course, with OEM keys, YMMV.

 

[Ketchup]

Compared to what is available now, I see very little difference between a Q6600 and a Q9450.

Fingolfin269, one ideal is that you could go ahead and get 64-bit Windows, 8 GB of DDR3 (or whatever you want), and a good video card. I would personally add an SSD to the list. Try it, and see if it does what you need. If not, just need to replace the CPU and board, as everything else is compatible. Windows will just install much of the new hardware on its own, and you're set.

 

[Valantar]

http://cpubenchmark.net/compare.php?cmp[]=1038&cmp[]=1046

That's a ~25% performance increase. Not enormous, but definitely worth it. And that is at stock speeds.

Adding the QX9770 to the mix for reference (if he can OC): http://cpubenchmark.net/compare.php?cmp[]=1038&cmp[]=1046&cmp[]=1033

I'd say that's $50 well spent.


Edit: For reference, my OC is running on an Asus Rampage Formula X48 board with a cheap-ish air cooler (Nexus FLC3000, link), OC'd through the board's "CPU Level up" function, and never tops 80 degrees under full OCCT load. I ran the PassMark Performance Test just now, got a 4298 CPU score, on a system running all kinds of background and foreground processes.

 

[VirtualLarry]

OC? On a non-Alienware Dell motherboard? Someone's dreaming...

 

[Termie]

OP, you likely do need a new PC if you're looking for better performance, but you don't need a $1000 PC.

A $120 Core i3-4160 would run circles around your processor (and any Core 2 Quad for that matter). Add a B85 motherboard and 4GB of RAM for $100, and you're set as far as the platform goes. That's a $220 upgrade.

You can build off of that depending on your budget and needs, picking and choosing among SSDs, video cards, cases, and power supplies. Don't forget to add in the cost of Windows 8.1 as well.

 

[mfenn]

OC? On a non-Alienware Dell motherboard? Someone's dreaming...

:thumbsup: That's just what I was about to post. You're not going to be overclocking a stock Dell motherboard.

 

[Fingolfin269]

Thanks guys. I'll likely use the stickies as general reference moving forward (thanks mfenn) with the intent of building something between low and mid.

Would you upgrade monitors as well? Mine is nice (imo) but native res is only 1680x1050. Lg L227WTG.

 

[Yuriman]

If you're happy with your screen, stick with it. 27" IPS panels are cheap though.

Regarding your CPU, I recently(ish) upgraded my wife's Q6600 machine to a Haswell i3, and in some cases the new CPU delivered *twice* the FPS with the same video card.

 

[inachu]

If you are a gamer then keep it as is if you love your hardware that much.
If you do build a new system and you are a gamer then keep it at 32bit.

If you do not care about old game compatibility then yes go get Windows 64bit OS and new hardware.

 

[Fingolfin269]

**UPDATE**
I've decided to go ahead and build a new system basically falling somewhere in between the low and mid builds in the sticky. I've never been on the cutting edge so do not necessarily need something that is going to play max settings at 60fps at the highest resolution. In fact I plan to retain my current monitor which has a native res of 1680x1050.

Here is the part list of the build I'm currently looking at. Feel free to tear it apart. I'm trying to stay at <$750 or so including the OS. The build does include an SSD as well as a Blu-Ray reader.

Some questions:

1) Do you see any issue with the chosen parts?
2) Would you choose a different vid card? Processor? Etc. Assume for this decision the main budget cuts would be from the BRD and/or the SSD (preferably in that order).

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/MnDgNG

 

[Fingolfin269]

Guess I should do the rest of my part as well..

1. What YOUR PC will be used for. Gaming.

2. What YOUR budget is. Let's start with $750 max. Including OS.

3. What country YOU will be buying YOUR parts from. US

4. IF you're buying parts OUTSIDE the US, please post a link to the vendor you'll be buying from.
We can't be expected to scour the internet on your behalf, chasing down deals in your specific country... Again, help us, help YOU. Not Applicable

5. IF YOU have a brand preference. That means, are you an Intel-Fanboy, AMD-Fanboy, ATI-Fanboy, nVidia-Fanboy, Seagate-Fanboy, WD-Fanboy, etc. No pref but do want quality.

6. If YOU intend on using any of YOUR current parts, and if so, what those parts are. Not intending but may be able to snag a DVD writer from an old machine.

7. IF YOU plan on overclocking or run the system at default speeds. Default speeds.

8. What resolution, not monitor size, will you be using? 1680x1050 for now.

9. WHEN do you plan to build it? Note that it is usually not cost or time effective to choose your build more than a month before you actually plan to be using it. ASAP, likely within next couple of weeks. Looking for general direction now and may need some assistance with refinements if pricing changes much in next week or so.

 

[Yuriman]

Two bits to change:

1) i3 4160 is around the same price, ~$120 on Newegg and Amazon

2) The MX100 is a good SSD, but newer ones are faster at the same price. I was recommended the 256GB model of this Transcend SSD, and it does indeed bench quite a bit better than the MX100.


I opted for low profile, low voltage Crucial Ballistix for my most recent build for a few dollars more. It was an ITX build and I appreciate the extra clearance between it and the heatsink. There's nothing wrong with what you picked though.

Have you considered an ITX build? I notice the board you selected doesn't have a second PCIe 16x slot, and it doesn't seem like you need the extra 4 expansion slots. You could build a tower that's less than half the size.

$8 more buys this ASrock H97 board, which has good integrated WiFi and better onboard audio. You give up 2 RAM slots though, and for that reason I opted for 1x 8GB over 2x 4GB.

 

[Fingolfin269]

Thanks Yuri. Not sure if I want to get down to ITX size but you did bring some points I should consider. I would definitely like good on board sound. But I do prefer having front inputs as well which is something that mobo plus case combo did offer.

General question to anyone, what is the best way to identify if a board has a good on board sound offering?

 

[mfenn]

General question to anyone, what is the best way to identify if a board has a good on board sound offering?

The Realtek ALC1150 and the branded implementations of such is generally the bar for good onboard sound. The ASRock H97 Performance will get you that, plus Intel LAN for $80 AR.

 

[Fingolfin269]

I'm going to continue to tinker, watch slickdeals, etc. before pulling the trigger on anything. In the meantime I have another question.

Here is the current build:

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/GsfbZL

Let's say I decide to stretch the budget a bit. Maybe $100. Would you go with a better CPU? Or a better GPU? And probably the most important question for learning... why would you choose one over the other? Thanks!

 

[Yuriman]

I've been tossing around the idea, and I'd probably go with an R285 over a 280. Read about it here and come to your own conclusions. You could swing a 290 with the extra $100, which would be pretty significant in terms of eye-candy, though it might be wise then to add another 50-100w or so to your power supply.


For another $40ish you can move up to a 256GB SSD. Considering Titanfall is almost 60GB, the extra space might be good to have.


$60 moves you up to a locked i5, which is good for about 33% better throughput, though most games don't scale perfectly with more threads. $120 gets you an unlocked i5, which would probably have around 600mhz of overclocking headroom if you get a cheap aftermarket cooler, which adds another $30, but that doesn't seem very cost effective. $130 more gets you a Xeon which is effectively an i7, which would be a lot more tempting if you'd be using this PC for more productivity stuff.

I've had opportunity to use an i3 both for gaming and for general day to day use, and it's a very respectable chip. Most games see some kind of performance improvement with an i5, but an i3 still provides a very satisfactory experience and would be happy with one in my main rig.


You might consider setting aside the money for a monitor upgrade, or perhaps other peripherals.


Spec-wise, your machine is pretty similar to a gaming rig I recently built my sister, though hers was ITX. I feel you're pretty close to the sweet-spot in terms of priceerformance.

 

[Fingolfin269]

Just got some good news. Looks like I'm going to get a free (also legit) Windows 8.1 key via MS so that frees up some cash. I went ahead and upped the GPU to a 285 but may leave everything else as/is for now. Or may up the CPU to a locked i5.

Question on the SSD. The main reason I went with 128GB is because I assumed the best way to use this would be to primarily put the OS and other system oriented files there while using the standard HD for all games, photos, movies, etc. Is that the way to go or would it be worthwhile to go ahead and get a larger (240-256GB) one to store active games on?

 

[Yuriman]

That's a cost effective way of going about things, for sure. Some game that hit the HDD a lot for small texture files and such during gameplay (I think WoW does this?) have their performance inconsistencies and hitching reduced when played from a SSD, but it's not terribly common. Load times are often significantly improved with an SSD, but I do occasionally move larger games over to my mechanical storage and don't mind too much.

 

[Termie]

128GB drives really aren't a good value versus larger models. You'll want just about everything but media and other data on the SSD. I'd suggest a 250GB model.

 

[mfenn]

I honestly wouldn't recommend an R9 285. The fact that it only has 2GB of VRAM is going to be limiting factor soon enough, and it's not faster than an R9 280 by a large enough margin to make up for that.

If I understand correctly, you now have a $750 budget without OS. Here's what I would do with that:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i3-4160 3.6GHz Dual-Core Processor ($109.88 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: ASRock Fatal1ty H97 Killer ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($90.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix Sport 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($56.99 @ Adorama)
Storage: OCZ ARC 100 240GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($80.98 @ Newegg)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($47.89 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: Sapphire Radeon R9 280X 3GB Video Card ($212.98 @ Newegg)
Case: Corsair 200R ATX Mid Tower Case ($49.99 @ NCIX US)
Power Supply: Antec TruePower Classic 750W 80+ Gold Certified ATX Power Supply ($49.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: LG WH16NS40 Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Writer ($56.98 @ OutletPC)
Total: $756.66
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-03-14 12:45 EDT-0400

 

[Yuriman]

^ Sometimes less is more with power supplies. I wouldn't get a 750w for a system that isn't likely to draw more than 200w under load, because it'll be pretty far out of the unit's efficiency curve.

 

[mfenn]

^ Sometimes less is more with power supplies. I wouldn't get a 750w for a system that isn't likely to draw more than 200w under load, because it'll be pretty far out of the unit's efficiency curve.

It's true that, all else being equal, a 750W unit will be less efficient at say 200W than a 550W unit.

However, all else isn't equal, this is a multivariable equation where you have to consider the absolute values of the points on the efficiency curve as well as original purchase price. Show me a gold rated 550W for $50 and I'll gladly swap it in.