Upgrade MacBook Pro 13"?

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TheStu

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David,

Again, I'm not trying to make Apple out to be the best company ever, but they do make a nice laptop... and Anandtech's own reviews will back me up on this. If you notice, the MacBook Pro is the only Apple product I own. This is for three reasons, the Multi-Touch Trackpad is second to none, the build quality is exceptional, and the design is stellar.

I'm not here to argue about the value, I know they're expensive, I know a $1,200 laptop from anyone else is going to have better specs. I've been building desktops for 15 years, I'm well versed in hardware. I know exactly what I'm getting when I buy a Mac. But unlike you, I don't just weigh Specs into a computer purchase... Build Quality and Design are important to me too. And while there are a few laptop makes who can match Apple in build quality, I think they do Design better than anyone else out there.

My point being, there is no right and wrong. You can't sit here and make statements like buying a MacBook Pro is foolish. What's bad for you, isn't bad for everyone. I have my desktop when I need superior specs. I said I wanted a *faster* MacBook Pro, not the *fastest* Laptop.

Wait it out, a refresh is coming, but have you also considered dropping an SSD in there? Could help matters significantly.

David, you were covered under AppleCare with all of these problems were you not? No company's QC is perfect, there is always the possibility of getting a lemon from anywhere regardless of what you hear from anyone else, it is how the company acts when you say 'Uh, my hard drive died after a week' that matters.

For the record, my current MBA replaces my 6 year old, still chugging PowerBook, which replaced (and this will sound out of order) my 3 year old (at the time), still kicking ass MacBook.

And no, you cannot get an aluminum unibody from anybody. Even HP, who ran the unibody Macs through copy machines to get their Envy line, and well... their consumer line design at this point, is using a segmented body.
 

realmike15

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Oct 22, 2009
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Wait it out, a refresh is coming, but have you also considered dropping an SSD in there? Could help matters significantly.

David, you were covered under AppleCare with all of these problems were you not? No company's QC is perfect, there is always the possibility of getting a lemon from anywhere regardless of what you hear from anyone else, it is how the company acts when you say 'Uh, my hard drive died after a week' that matters.

For the record, my current MBA replaces my 6 year old, still chugging PowerBook, which replaced (and this will sound out of order) my 3 year old (at the time), still kicking ass MacBook.

And no, you cannot get an aluminum unibody from anybody. Even HP, who ran the unibody Macs through copy machines to get their Envy line, and well... their consumer line design at this point, is using a segmented body.

I've thought about it, there's been so much good press about how significantly an SSD will improve your performance. The one problem is, I'm looking to up my storage capacity on my MBP and a 256GB SSD is still fairly expensive.
 

TheStu

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I've thought about it, there's been so much good press about how significantly an SSD will improve your performance. The one problem is, I'm looking to up my storage capacity on my MBP and a 256GB SSD is still fairly expensive.

Do you use the optical drive at all? If your answer is 'basically never' then you can get an adapter that goes in the optical drive bay and put the SSD there, while still keeping the platter drive.

Some sites sell bundles, SSD+adapter+enclosure for the optical drive so you don't lose it completely. My roommate just did that, spent $280 I think for the adapter, 120GB Sandforce SSD and external enclosure.
 

Davidh373

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David, you were covered under AppleCare with all of these problems were you not? No company's QC is perfect, there is always the possibility of getting a lemon from anywhere regardless of what you hear from anyone else, it is how the company acts when you say 'Uh, my hard drive died after a week' that matters.

Nope...

HDD Clicking is not "covered", I had to deal with it until it failed after Applecare expired... and their Quality Control sucks... Obviously. The Time Capsule was covered under my Laptop's warranty, but the Applecare had expired, the iPod is 2 years old... So I have a feeling you are overestimating how much Applecare does for you. Every single person I even tried to ask for help couldn't because I wasn't covered anymore... So no, Applecare along with Apple's QC sucks.

I don't need an extended warranty for my 12 year old Dell, it's still kicking. I don't need one for my custom workstation, which is going on 3 years, and I haven't needed one for my custom home server... Nor my Gaming rig. My HP from 5 years ago is still running great... Why should I pay about 40&#37; of the purchase price to make sure my Apple product works for over a year? At that point I've paid for 3 equivalent laptops...

For the record, my current MBA replaces my 6 year old, still chugging PowerBook, which replaced (and this will sound out of order) my 3 year old (at the time), still kicking ass MacBook.

And no, you cannot get an aluminum unibody from anybody. Even HP, who ran the unibody Macs through copy machines to get their Envy line, and well... their consumer line design at this point, is using a segmented body.

There are many Dells, ASUS', and HPs that come with an aluminum shell, and I was not referring to the "unibody" because it is a feature that does not matter. That is just a lot of design fluff really, and it actually makes cooling worse... So why is it a good thing to get reduced functionality?
 

AsusReview

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It should be easy to see that the people that buy Apple are not just idiots being tricked. They actually provide a solid laptop, and lets face it MOST people don't need bleeding edge specs. They need something usable which combines ergonomics and lots of other things like the multitouch workflow.

Still I'm not convinced to buy a superior piece of hardware in some respects just for software that is offered with it. But JMO.
 

TheStu

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Nope...

HDD Clicking is not "covered", I had to deal with it until it failed after Applecare expired... and their Quality Control sucks... Obviously. The Time Capsule was covered under my Laptop's warranty, but the Applecare had expired, the iPod is 2 years old... So I have a feeling you are overestimating how much Applecare does for you. Every single person I even tried to ask for help couldn't because I wasn't covered anymore... So no, Applecare along with Apple's QC sucks.

I don't need an extended warranty for my 12 year old Dell, it's still kicking. I don't need one for my custom workstation, which is going on 3 years, and I haven't needed one for my custom home server... Nor my Gaming rig. My HP from 5 years ago is still running great... Why should I pay about 40% of the purchase price to make sure my Apple product works for over a year? At that point I've paid for 3 equivalent laptops...

There are many Dells, ASUS', and HPs that come with an aluminum shell, and I was not referring to the "unibody" because it is a feature that does not matter. That is just a lot of design fluff really, and it actually makes cooling worse... So why is it a good thing to get reduced functionality?

Then don't buy another damn Mac. But just because you don't like them, and think that they are the devil's own computers, doesn't mean that every one shares your opinions.

I cannot for the life of me understand the people that think that anyone that buys a 13" MacBook for $999 when they could have gotten a 17" Whatever with 'oh my godz0rs, soo much better specs, look at the mega-giga-bytes son!' for $99 is an idiot.
 

mfenn

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I cannot for the life of me understand the people that think that anyone that buys a 13" MacBook for $999 when they could have gotten a 17" Whatever with 'oh my godz0rs, soo much better specs, look at the mega-giga-bytes son!' for $99 is an idiot.

:thumbsup: Raw specs are quite low on the list of important components of a laptop.
 

CurseTheSky

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Oct 21, 2006
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There are many Dells, ASUS', and HPs that come with an aluminum shell, and I was not referring to the "unibody" because it is a feature that does not matter. That is just a lot of design fluff really, and it actually makes cooling worse... So why is it a good thing to get reduced functionality?

I'm curious - other than the Macbook Pro, Macbook Air, and HP Envy 13/14/15/17, which notebooks come with an aluminum body?

Keep in mind that a few thin aluminum panels glued onto a plastic frame does not equal an aluminum chassis. My girlfriend's Dell XPS M1530 had an aluminum wrist area for example, but it was nothing more than a panel stuck on the plastic body. My previous ASUS UL30A had an aluminum top cover, but once again it was just a thin panel meant for looks, not rigidity. There was one review in particular for ASUS's UL series, the one with the bamboo accents, and I believe they even pried it off to show that it was very thin and would have no real impact on the "greenness" of the laptop. ASUS marketed it as using bamboo to reduce more environmentally unfriendly materials such as plastic.

I absolutely love the chassis on my Envy 14. It's real, solid aluminum / magnesium alloy all the way around, and it's HEAVY. However, side by side with my friend's MBP, the Mac blows it out of the water in terms of build quality. I paid $1200 for my Envy 14 with specs that are superior to the MBP 13 (for roughly the same price), but the MBP's chassis and touch pad are both superior to my Envy 14's. As I said before, the only point I'm trying to get across is that the MBP is not junk by any stretch of the mind. It's a very nice piece of equipment, and the high price tag compared to the internal specs is offset by the superior chassis, touch pad, and all around decent auxiliary component selection (screen, etc.). Once again, I don't own a single Apple product, but I can certainly see why the MBP carries the price tag that it does, even with worse specs.
 

Davidh373

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I cannot for the life of me understand the people that think that anyone that buys a 13" MacBook for $999 when they could have gotten a 17" Whatever with 'oh my godz0rs, soo much better specs, look at the mega-giga-bytes son!' for $99 is an idiot.

Hmm, yeah, paying $99 for a new laptop would be a pretty shady deal. I'd recommend trying something in the $600 range. Those will at the very least have computer chips in them :p

I'm curious - other than the Macbook Pro, Macbook Air, and HP Envy 13/14/15/17, which notebooks come with an aluminum body?

Panasonic Toughbook

Dell Vostro

Dell Latitude

Dell Adamo 13 and Adamo XPS

HP Elitebook

Some have Aluminum, Some Aluminum/ Magnesium Alloy.

I also had an HP Elitebook in my list of recommendations. Great price for what you get! :)

Then don't buy another damn Mac. But just because you don't like them, and think that they are the devil's own computers, doesn't mean that every one shares your opinions.

It's not an opinion if I've had I'd say 90&#37; of my friends who own Macbooks have a problem or two, or more. I've also had many other machines that haven't had problems, and very few friends who paid a reasonable amount (over $500) for their windows laptop who have had problems... It's more of a fact at that point that Apple has quality control issues. I'm not someone who would let one problem sway me from a company. I've had 5 hardware failures on Apple products. My iPod first, then my HDD, then my Disk Drive, then my Time Capsule's HDD. It's too many incidents to be coincidence, especially since I've had so many friends who've had problems with them also. Actually, I find my advice fairly objective. I've had one or less failures from any other company. In fact, I've never had any electronic gadget break as fast as my Apple products. So maybe you are the one with the opinion, ehh? I have not said one thing that isn't true.

Don't say I didn't warn you... you are on borrowed time with any Macbook you buy... and I would be willing to bet money something goes wrong with that MacBook in the next 2 years. Most likely around a month after the 1 year of AppleCare is done with. If not then they just use the $400 you gave them for AppleCare to buy replacement parts. They'll give you a nice sheet with a $600+ price tag you "would be paying" and you'll think you're smiling all the way to the bank with all the money you "saved" by buying the extended plan...

Parts I had break were as follows

- 200GB HDD -

-Apple-
+$80

-Newegg-
+$45

- 1TB Time Capsule -

(you can't open this one up)

-Apple-
+$350

-Custom Newegg Server-
+$320

- Disk Drive -

-Apple-
+$167

-Comparable LG drive-
+$80

- Logic Board -

-Apple (only)-
+$675
 

TheStu

Moderator<br>Mobile Devices & Gadgets
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Sep 15, 2004
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Hmm, yeah, paying $99 for a new laptop would be a pretty shady deal. I'd recommend trying something in the $600 range. Those will at the very least have computer chips in them :p



Panasonic Toughbook

Dell Vostro

Dell Latitude

Dell Adamo 13 and Adamo XPS

HP Elitebook

Some have Aluminum, Some Aluminum/ Magnesium Alloy.

I also had an HP Elitebook in my list of recommendations. Great price for what you get! :)



It's not an opinion if I've had I'd say 90% of my friends who own Macbooks have a problem or two, or more. I've also had many other machines that haven't had problems, and very few friends who paid a reasonable amount (over $500) for their windows laptop who have had problems... It's more of a fact at that point that Apple has quality control issues. I'm not someone who would let one problem sway me from a company. I've had 5 hardware failures on Apple products. My iPod first, then my HDD, then my Disk Drive, then my Time Capsule's HDD. It's too many incidents to be coincidence, especially since I've had so many friends who've had problems with them also. Actually, I find my advice fairly objective. I've had one or less failures from any other company. In fact, I've never had any electronic gadget break as fast as my Apple products. So maybe you are the one with the opinion, ehh? I have not said one thing that isn't true.

You are right, it isn't opinion, and it may be fact, but it is still anecdotal evidence. And that is all I have is well, but it is as follows;

List of Apple laptops at my apartment right now;
MacBook Air (brand new)

MacBook Pro Unibody w/ removable battery. This belongs to my roommate, he got it in Spring '09 and has since replaced the battery and the screen. The bezel was not fully sealed, and dust had gotten underneath, replaced for free under AppleCare

PowerBook G4 12": Used to belong to a friend, he somehow managed to break his power plug inside the port, I took it apart, fixed the problem, and has been working for 6 years.

PowerBook G4 12": Bought used about 1.5 years ago, the previous owner broke the heatsink retention screws, it overheats if you do more than 1 thing at a time, otherwise is still working

MacBook Pro: Suffered numerous soda spills at the hands of my roommate, anything but a ToughBook would have been killed. It still took 2.5 cans over 3 years to die though. It also was plagued by every first gen MBP problem there was. My roommate, clever guy that he is usually, thought that the warranty was only for 6 months, so never contacted Apple to get anything fixed, so he replaced the screen inverter, optical drive, and something else that I cannot recall right now out of pocket.

My sister has my old MacBook, the topcase was replaced (free), the battery (free due to recall you might remember, every Sony battery back in '06 or '07) and the magsafe (free). It is still chugging along, though i think the hard drive is probably finally going bad after 4.5 (5 in August) years of constant every day use/abuse.

My other sister spilled water on her MacBook, it died. My mother did the same on her MacBook (she also killed a Compaq laptop the same way, we are debating not letting her have any more laptops).

My friend (who used to own the PowerBook) got a MacBook in '06 or '07 as well, his is still running just fine, and this includes the numerous falls and spills (liquids, not another word for tumble) it has taken over the years. The screen had to be replaced after a fall, but he did that himself.

His sister's MacBook needed a hard drive replacement at some point, I believe it was one of the bad Seagate drives, her friend at school had a spare, higher capacity drive laying around, otherwise it would have been free.

My iPod Nano (2nd gen) has lasted years and is on its 3rd owner. My original iPod 30gb had the battery go out, but I replaced it myself. The hard drive then kicked after I think 3-4 years, so it was replaced too. My roommate's iPod 30gb died, was replaced under warranty, the replacement died within 24 hrs and it too was replaced under warranty. That one is still alive and kicking to this day (at least I assume so, he gave it to me, and then I stopped using it once I got my new phone).

I have an original iPhone, a little over 3 years old, aside from tons of abuse, it has suffered no problems. My roommate went through 4 3GSs all of them replaced under warranty, but is still on iPhone 4 number 1, the original iPhone was his as well.

So, some user failures, some tanks that keep on going, and some that have had continuous issues. As I said, no company's QC is perfect, and it is how their CS takes care of you that matters. My mom asked me to take in her laptop without telling me about the water damage, and they refused it due to water damage. My friend tried to get the battery on his MBP replaced for free, but they determined through diagnostics that it had died from lack of use (I can attest, he used it plugged in, on his bed, all the damn time).

I also know a couple of people with $500 laptops, their experiences are about what I laid out above... a mixture. I can say this much though, the one thing they have all had in common was how incredibly cheap and flimsy the systems felt.

Don't say I didn't warn you... you are on borrowed time with any Macbook you buy... and I would be willing to bet money something goes wrong with that MacBook in the next 2 years. Most likely around a month after the 1 year of AppleCare is done with. If not then they just use the $400 you gave them for AppleCare to buy replacement parts. They'll give you a nice sheet with a $600+ price tag you "would be paying" and you'll think you're smiling all the way to the bank with all the money you "saved" by buying the extended plan...

Parts I had break were as follows

- 200GB HDD -

-Apple-
+$80

-Newegg-
+$45

- 1TB Time Capsule -

(you can't open this one up)

-Apple-
+$350

-Custom Newegg Server-
+$320

- Disk Drive -

-Apple-
+$167

-Comparable LG drive-
+$80

- Logic Board -

-Apple (only)-
+$675

Replacing your own hard drive if you have the know how and skill makes perfect sense, but if you hadn't known how it isn't like Apple was charging more than a local shop or the Geek Squad, certainly not by much.

Buying the Time Capsule was a silly idea. Getting the Airport Extreme and a separate external drive for Time Machine is the way to go. Not just because the drive in the Time Capsule is unreplaceable, but also because of expandability and redundancy.

Disk Drive in what?

The logic boards are also available on this website called ebay. You may have heard about it, you can get to it through this thing, called The Internet.

Your experience is obviously terrible, hence the advice to stop buying Apple products. And I would tell you to do a google search to find the people that don't have issues, but generally people don't post long, interesting blog posts about how they woke up one day to find that their laptop was working normally. And even if they do, the other more popular blogs usually don't reprint them. I have had good luck with my Macs, and know plenty of people that have as well, as well as people that have had shit luck, like you apparently. I can also tell you about a guy I know who has had nothing but problems with his Lenovo T61, or about my friend who has had so many things replaced on his 6 year old Compaq that I am pretty sure it is no longer the same computer he received.
 

Davidh373

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Jun 20, 2009
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Disk Drive in what?

Super Drive in the MacBook Pro. The Super Drive for my model costs $167 at apple before labor

but if you hadn't known how it isn't like Apple was charging more than a local shop or the Geek Squad, certainly not by much.

It was $80 before labor, so more realistically $100. I actually checked Best Buy's shelves and a WD Caviar Blue 200GB was $65 at the time. So Apple was charging more at the time. I'm not sure about Geek Squad. I'm pretty sure they charge a flat $80 rate to get into everything, but then again, you don't have to pay them for your computer for them to do it.

PowerBook G4 12": Used to belong to a friend, he somehow managed to break his power plug inside the port, I took it apart, fixed the problem, and has been working for 6 years.

PowerBook G4 12": Bought used about 1.5 years ago, the previous owner broke the heatsink retention screws, it overheats if you do more than 1 thing at a time, otherwise is still working

The PowerBooks seemed really solid. I have many friends that loved them, and not many had problems that I know of.

The logic boards are also available on this website called ebay. You may have heard about it, you can get to it through this thing, called The Internet.

This is true, but they are normally used, and they are normally around the same price if not more than Apple's price since there is no real alternative to the one you need. I mean, you might save $20-$30 buying off eBay. I did shop eBay, Amazon, Newegg, and some Apple specific repair site. I actually ended up going in and getting that one done on the free though, because Apple and HP and Dell had won a lawsuit to have NVidia pay to have all their faulty Boards replaced (boards including the 8600m). The $675 was on the AppleCare receipt they gave me. It also seems that this estimate was without labor included.
 

TheStu

Moderator<br>Mobile Devices & Gadgets
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Sep 15, 2004
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Super Drive in the MacBook Pro. The Super Drive for my model costs $167 at apple before labor
Ah

The PowerBooks seemed really solid. I have many friends that loved them, and not many had problems that I know of.

Mine have both been troopers, if they could playback 720p MKVs I would still be using them, but they reached the end of their useful lives for me. If I can get the heating issues under control on the second one, I might donate them both, or give them to my second and third oldest nieces, they are 11 and 9 now, and computers are used more and more for school.

This is true, but they are normally used, and they are normally around the same price if not more than Apple's price since there is no real alternative to the one you need. I mean, you might save $20-$30 buying off eBay. I did shop eBay, Amazon, Newegg, and some Apple specific repair site. I actually ended up going in and getting that one done on the free though, because Apple and HP and Dell had won a lawsuit to have NVidia pay to have all their faulty Boards replaced (boards including the 8600m). The $675 was on the AppleCare receipt they gave me. It also seems that this estimate was without labor included.

I have seen them get cheaper than just $20-30 off, but YMMV. And see, there was Apple replacing the logic board for free, and in that case it was nVidia's screw up not Apple's. This same problem has just afflicted a friend's T61 (or is it T41?), but Lenovo didn't do a blanket replacement it is on a case by case basis. His computer will run all day and night, but the minute you launch a GPU stress test, it shuts off.

OP, the new Sandy Bridge MBPs are out, not a huge improvement but some.
 

Davidh373

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Jun 20, 2009
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http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/specs.html

Ok, so I do admit their pricing just got a whole lot more attractive, although I have to wonder if those have the SATA problems the other SB platforms had.

Honestly, I would buy this. A Quad Core would be a huge performance boost OP, and honestly, this is still a huge markup (prolly like $500-$600). So it's a $1200 laptop with a $1800 price, but It's a lot better deal than getting a $600 C2D laptop for $1000 in my opinion.

http://store.apple.com/us/configure/...co=MjEyOTY5MDM
 
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TheStu

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http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/specs.html

Ok, so I do admit their pricing just got a whole lot more attractive, although I have to wonder if those have the SATA problems the other SB platforms had.

Honestly, I would buy this. A Quad Core would be a huge performance boost OP, and honestly, this is still a huge markup (prolly like $500-$600). So it's a $1200 laptop with a $1800 price, but It's a lot better deal than getting a $600 C2D laptop for $1000 in my opinion.

http://store.apple.com/us/configure/...co=MjEyOTY5MDM

My understanding was that the SB SATA chipset issue only affected ports 3-6 or something, that the first two ports were un-effected. And even with that, intel already has a fix out, and pushed it to OEMs first.

The 2.2GHz Quad and 6750m on the $2200 model. Plus LightPeak, not that much of anything supports it yet.
 

mfenn

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My understanding was that the SB SATA chipset issue only affected ports 3-6 or something, that the first two ports were un-effected. And even with that, intel already has a fix out, and pushed it to OEMs first.

Yep, ports 1-2 are unaffected. Since the Macbook Pro only has a has two drives, it's fine with one of the defective chipsets.
 

TheStu

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Ugh... i put a hyphen in un-affected, and spelled it wrong...

Anyway, I am really thinking that it will be the next revision (or at least the next hardware revision) that will really be something. Tim Cook said that the macbook air was the future of laptops, and I have to tell you, after having mine for only a couple of weeks, even the MBPs which are pretty damn thin, look downright portly compared to it anymore.