Upgrade from 3500+ to X2 4800+?

[imported_stev]

I can't believe I'm even considering this on a system that is not quite a year old, but would an upgrade from a single core 3500+ to an X2 4800+ make a big difference?

Here's my situation. My home computer is also my HTPC. I often have shows recording (up to 2, with my NVIDIA Dual TV using Beyond TV, both great, btw) while I am doing some light photoshop editing, web browsing, emailing, running a funky web server to test my php, and/or listening to music, etc...

A couple times last week, I noticed that some shows would freeze and then skip forward 10-20 seconds or so. I was able to reproduce this by starting a new recording and maxing out my CPU. Sure enough, the recording froze and skipped forward when played back with very little running in the background (meaning it wasn't the playback, but the recording itself that was the problem).

I'm not planning on making a stand-alone HTPC for quite some time so I'm trying to make this system perform its HTPC duties well along with being able to do the tasks outlined above (not all those tasks at the same time, but maybe 1-2 at a time). It seems to me that even with MPEG2 encoding on the TV tuner, it still needs a little CPU time to keep things going. If I had a processor that wasn't ever 100% utilized, I think my recordings would be fine.

 

[imported_michaelpatrick33]

The short answer is yes. Your photoshop and server will definitely love the multithreaded capabilities. You are also increasing in Mghtz so that will give you another boost.

 

[LLoose]

x2's are great for multitasking. I got an x2 +3800 and ditched my old +3000 and its a HUGE difference.
Another thing, make sure you have at least a gig or ram. My performance jumped up a LOT when I upgraded to 2 gigs.. For some reason it uses less cpu cycles.

 

[imported_stev]

I have 2 GB of RAM too...which reminds me, I should add my comp specs to my sig this weekend!

 

[crimson117]

Your system may only be a year old, but (no offense) your processor wasn't exactly high-end 12 months ago.

You sound like a prime candidate for a dual core processor

Remember to upgrade to the latest bios before switching to the new processor.

 

[crimson117]

Originally posted by: lloose
My performance jumped up a LOT when I upgraded to 2 gigs.. For some reason it uses less cpu cycles.

More ram = less "virtual ram" on hard drive = less disk IO for the processor to handle

 

[imported_stev]

Originally posted by: crimson117
Your system may only be a year old, but (no offense) your processor wasn't exactly high-end 12 months ago.

You sound like a prime candidate for a dual core processor

Remember to upgrade to the latest bios before switching to the new processor.

Yeah, no offense taken...it was my very first build and I had no clue I would make an HTPC out of it. I eyed the 3800+ X2 back then, but I couldn't justify the steep cost (I think around $350?). Anyway, I'm not sure if I'm ready to take the nearly $300 plunge on the 4800+, but I'll be keeping tabs on the price in stores as well as in the FS forums and I'll see what happens to the price over the next couple months...

 

[hennethannun]

wait a minute everyone.

sure, a 3500+ wasn't exactly the flagship part 12 months ago, but it was not and IS NOT a bad processor at all. (particularly the venice chips? OP, is your 3500+ newcastle, winchester or venice?).

Having said that, dual-core processors truly shine when you need your computer to do 2+ CPU intensive tasks simutaneously, (like, say, encoding high-quality video).

For someone like you, who uses really stresses their computer with this type of work, upgrading to an X2 might not be a bad idea. (although you could probably do just as well spending $150 on a 3800+ and overclocking it to 4800+ speeds).

However, for MOST users, a 3500+ is still more than sufficient, and it's single threaded performance is anything but bad.

 

[MrUniq]

going dual core? welcome to 2005

 

[imported_stev]

hennethannun: Yeah, mine's a Venice. I'm still looking into which dual core I would get, but it looks like price-wise 4800+ would be as high as I would go in the short-term. Maybe 3800+ would be okay, but I'd like to go with something that has the same or faster clock speed so even if a task can only run on one core, I don't have any performance drop from my old processor.

MrUniq: ZING!!!

 

[jjsbasmt]

Thanks to all of you for this thread. I have been thinking along this line too, however another option which is rather inexpensive is to go the Pentium D 840 3.2 GHz route. Does anyone have an opinion as to which of the AMD dual cores would be roughly equivelent to the 840?

 

[hennethannun]

I don't know the pentium comparison's right off the top of my head, but i seem to recall that it takes a 3.6 ghz pentium D to come close to a 3800+ X2 in all around performance.

given that you already have a socket 939 motherboard, and you are looking for an incremental performance boost rather than a system rebuild, I see NO reason to go with anything but an X2.

As for which one to get, I personally jumped for the 4400+ (89W version), it has the SOI silicon and runs a bit cooler (and lower voltage) than the standard 110W chips. it is clocked at 2.2 ghz (ie equal to your 3500+), but has a full 1MB of cache. And everybody I have heard from with one of these chips reports being able to do 2.6-2.87ghz at stock voltages. My own chip can run at 2.75ghz (ie almost as fast at an FX-62) at 1.3625V (just a bit above stock) with load temps of about 52C (stock AMD heatpipe cooler). for normal use I run my CPU at 220x11 for 2.42mhz (just slightly more than 4800+ speeds) at stock voltage. It has been rock solid stability, no problems after about a month or near continuous use. And at about $220 it would save you almost a $100 over a 4800+ (plus whatever very small amount of money you save in electricity by running a slightly lower power cpu).

Wait, I jsut checked prices again. The 4400+ (89W) is not more than $30 more expensive than when i bought it, and the 4800+ is $50 cheaper. so that being the case, go 4800+ if you have the cash and don't want to worry with overclocking, or just save the moeny and buy a 4200+ which should do at least 2.5 or 2.6 ghz pretty easily...

 

[jjsbasmt]

hennethannun, thanks so much for the wealth of good information. I was thinking in the 4200 - 4600 range, and you answered all my questions. I did some research on the MSI website and it seems to say that my MB will support the X2 chips. I'll now get down to finding a processor at either Tiger or Newegg. I also want to go to 2GB on the RAM, since I am also testing Vista RC1. Again thanks for the time and great info.

 

[hennethannun]

mm, 2GB of DDR ram is going to be pricey right now (prices have been going up and up ever since AM2 came out in April). (eg, I bought my 2X1GB DDR400 OCZ platinum in March for $170 after MIR, and now it lists for $294!!!!!!!!!). If you don't need ridiculous timings, I would go for something like :

This

or this

the timings are bit lower and they won't OC as well, but they also won't cost more than your new processor...

As for the your motherboard, if you bought in anytime after late summer 2005 it SHOULD have shipped with an X2 compatible BIOS. otherwise, it should still be X2 compatable, but it might require a bios update (pretty painless with MSI live update, much as I hate that program).

you should also look at zipzoomfly for components, the prices are competitive and the shipping is almost always free (although no longer as fast as newegg's)

 

[imported_LoKe]

I'm going from a P4 2.00GHz with 512MB of ram to an x2 3800+, with 1GB of Ram.

 

[jjsbasmt]

I did buy the board late summer 2005, and have the latest bios updated. After weeding thru MSI's website, it seemed to say that my board will support X2. LoKe, my previous build was a P4, 2GHz upgraded to a 2.66 GHz with 512 RDRAM. I still like that system, and it was fast in it's day with the RDRAM.

 

[akshayt]

To save money you can get a brand new X2 3800 and overclock it to 2.4GHz or more.
This upgrade should cost you sub 100$.

 

[hennethannun]

^yeah, but 3800+s cost about $175 these days, and 4200+ cost about $185. I'll take a 10% speed increase and an extra multiplier for $10 anyday.

and since jumping up to the 89W 4400+ is like $250 now, i think that the 4200+ is looking like the sweet spot for an X2 upgrade AT THE MOMENT. who knows what things will look like next month...

 

[akshayt]

yes, then it is better to get X2 4200.

 

[imported_stev]

I think I've ruled out the processor being an issue. I moved around some recordings so I had space to record on my second hard drive (independent of my OS). I started recording while running Prime95, which maxed out the CPU. Then, I shut that off and just opened a bunch of programs, which brought CPU usage and primary hard drive usage up. When I replayed the resulting 5-minute video (with nothing else going on), it did not freeze once. I think it might have slightly stuttered in the final portion, but it was perfectly watchable.

So, it seems that my problem was due to the hard drive not being able to open programs while recording TV show(s) at the same time. Once I moved the recording to another hard drive, it seemed to do fine, even when the CPU was maxed out. My only question is whether the recording didn't need any CPU time at all or if it was able to force Prime95 to lay off a little bit when it needed some work done?

I guess that solves my problem, although I'll still keep an eye on the X2s. They're getting cheap and I don't plan on buying a new system anytime soon so it will be a nice upgrade eventually.

 

[Kinslayer777]

What about waiting for the new versions of X2 and buying them in january late (for reasonable pricing i presume)

 

[letdown427]

I'd say get a 4400+ if it's noticeably cheaper, a 200Mhz OC will be nothing (works for me anyway). Even without the OC, you won't notice that 200Mhz difference really. Otherwise, GOFER IT!

 

[Blain]

Originally posted by: hennethannun
^yeah, but 3800+s cost about $175 these days, and 4200+ cost about $185. I'll take a 10% speed increase and an extra multiplier for $10 anyday.

:thumbsup:

 

[CalvinHobbs]

i moved from 3500+ newcastle to a 3800+ venice, and no it was a free upgrade so i had to acceptt what i was getting, will performance increase ????

 

[RaiderJ]

I purchased a 3200+ in '04, and just upgraded to a 4400+ X2 last week. Definitely a good boost in speed and multicore to boot!

I'm really happy with X2 pricing on 939 now, thanks AM2!