Upgrade 2gb GTX 760 to 4gb GTX 960?

shipinabottle

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Aug 12, 2011
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Hi everyone. Yes, my question is just what the thread title is. I have an EVGA 2gb 760 card right now, and will also upgrade to another EVGA 4gb 960. Will that upgrade be a worthy investment? I am only looking at nVidia cards, so AMD stuff is out of the picture.
 
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RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
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That's an absolutely horrible upgrade. The best after-market 960 is only 19% faster than a reference 760. If you are going to upgrade to something from a 760, get a GTX970 as that will give you a 70%+ increase.

Source: http://www.computerbase.de/2015-01/nvidia-geforce-gtx-960-im-test/7/

Secondly, considering a GTX960 4GB is $240 but GTX970 is $320, the 960 has a horrible price/performance upgrade path for you. Let me explain:

The best 960 offers just 19% more performance for $240
The worst 970 offers 71% more performance for $320

However, this is not the full story. Things get MUCH worse for the 960. As we try to simulate the increased workload of next generation games by seeing how 960 responds to higher resolution gaming (i.e., via 1440P), the card completely falls apart and its performance actually approaches 760 level. In contrast, the GTX970 maintains its 70-72% lead. That means for future games, 960 is a total write-off in comparison to a 970 then.

9434


If you need more proof at how awful the 960 really is at $200-240, even when you take 2 of those, it still loses to a $240 after-market R9 290 or a $320 GTX970. That really shows just how underpowered and overpriced the 960 is today. The card should be priced at $149 really.

perfrel_2560.gif
 
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dualsmp

Golden Member
Aug 16, 2003
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GTX 970 or Radeon R9 290 would at least be a worthy upgrade. GTX 960 is barely faster than your 760.
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
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The GTX 960 is a sidegrade in the worst case or a marginal upgrade in the best case.

It's still amazing how much praise reviewers gave to the 960 and them completely closing their eyes on the horrible generational leap it offered over the 760 and the crippled 2GB of VRAM at launch.

An after-market 960 is actually just 11% faster than an after-market 760. That's truly pathetic and should have been voiced by every reviewer considering GTX760 came out on June 25, 2013, while GTX960 launched on Jan 22, 2015. More than 1.5 years separated these 2 cards, but 960 is a brand new architecture. :thumbsdown: Just to think how many people will automatically think 960 is a 2-generations upgrade over a 760 and buy it without ever reading a single review!
 

xorbe

Senior member
Sep 7, 2011
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Not worth it. I'm also holding onto a 760 mini. The 960 is a nice product, but it's just not enough of a leap directly from previous generation. Yeah, what he said ^^^ above me. That and EVGA doesn't make a stock 960 in the small form factor oddly, dual fans for a 960, yikes.
 
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raghu78

Diamond Member
Aug 23, 2012
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It's still amazing how much praise reviewers gave to the 960 and them completely closing their eyes on the horrible generational leap it offered over the 760 and the crippled 2GB of VRAM at launch.

I agree. the tech press is more looking like paid pumpers. take for instance hardocp's reviews of GTX 960. It has got disgusting to the point where they now believe a GTX 960 overclocked to the max can beat the R9 280X across the board. They top it off by saying that R9 280X does not have good OC headroom. are they stupid enough to think the readers believe that kind of crap ? I believe hardocp's charts are primarily cooked. They have the conclusion already in their mind before they start the review. :D

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2015...0_g1_gaming_video_card_review/11#.VSimmPmUeSo

To highlight how pathetic those guys are here is a much more realistic review

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Gigabyte/GTX_960_G1_Gaming/28.html

the GTX 960 OC is still 8 - 12% (1080/1440p) slower than R9 280X and even if overclocked to the max will barely match a R9 280X. here are a few other reviews

http://www.computerbase.de/2015-01/nvidia-geforce-gtx-960-im-test/3/

http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Geforce-GTX-960-Grafikkarte-259742/Specials/Test-Review-1148357/2/

An after-market 960 is actually just 11% faster than an after-market 760. That's truly pathetic and should have been voiced by every reviewer considering GTX760 came out on June 25, 2013, while GTX960 launched on Jan 22, 2015. More than 1.5 years separated these 2 cards, but 960 is a brand new architecture. :thumbsdown: Just to think how many people will automatically think 960 is a 2-generations upgrade over a 760 and buy it without ever reading a single review!

As you say I totally agree that GTX 960 is a horrible card in terms of generational upgrade. This also shows us how the review sites like hardocp are pimping the products of Nvidia. :thumbsdown:
 

JDG1980

Golden Member
Jul 18, 2013
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It's still amazing how much praise reviewers gave to the 960 and them completely closing their eyes on the horrible generational leap it offered over the 760 and the crippled 2GB of VRAM at launch.

The 960 is a very good HTPC card - low power consumption, full hardware HEVC decoding (the only card which currently offers this), HDMI 2.0 support, enough shader power to use MadVR at reasonable settings.

It's also a good card if you want to be able to run three 4K monitors. Most other cards with three or more DP 1.2 outputs are considerably more expensive, and those which aren't are ultra-low-end FirePro or Quadro cards based on obsolete GPUs.

But if you're primarily into AAA gaming and don't care about the maximum perf/watt, then yes, the R9 280X is going to be a better deal.
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
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The 960 is a very good HTPC card - low power consumption, full hardware HEVC decoding (the only card which currently offers this), HDMI 2.0 support, enough shader power to use MadVR at reasonable settings.

People with HDMI 2.0 TVs should be able to afford a GTX970. A modern TV that supports HDMI 2.0 is not exactly cheap. As far as VR goes, same point. Since the OP is likely talking about a gaming upgrade, we have to stick to the topic. If he had a 4K monitor or was interested in VR, then I am sure he would have mentioned it in the OP.

It's also a good card if you want to be able to run three 4K monitors. Most other cards with three or more DP 1.2 outputs are considerably more expensive, and those which aren't are ultra-low-end FirePro or Quadro cards based on obsolete GPUs.

Now you are just killing it. 3x 4K monitors on a $200 card? Come on. Did you think before you posted this?

But if you're primarily into AAA gaming and don't care about the maximum perf/watt, then yes, the R9 280X is going to be a better deal.

280X was not once mentioned in the recommendations in this thread. I think you need to be more careful when you read the thread, the posts and then when you respond. The OP is clearly asking what's a good upgrade from his GTX760 and that no AMD cards should be recommended. The advice is clear - GTX970 or something else (used 780Ti), skip 960 at all costs.

I agree. the tech press is more looking like paid pumpers. take for instance hardocp's reviews of GTX 960.

With Maxwell generation, whatever credibility and reputation [H] has built up over the decade, has been all but wiped it. Any review site that recommends a $200 960 2GB while ignoring existing games that need 3GB (AC Unity/Shadow of Mordor/Wolfenstein NWO/Dead Rising 3/Skyrim MODs) and ignores that games aren't just standing still and will use more VRAM in the next 1-2 years (GTA V/mods/etc.), while also ignoring after-market R9 290 for $240 that brings at least 50% more performance, and limits the game selection to 4-5 games comprised of mostly GW titles, seriously needs to re-examine what they do for a living.

Like seriously when an amateur that only started in this industry not long ago is making better recommendations than you and that's not even his primary job...

Then again if you browse the sub-forums of places like [H], TechReport, PCPer and TPU, their forum members/readers are so heavily biased towards a certain brand that these sites are just catering to their readership base. I mean when your site picks and chooses what metrics matters in which generation, sometimes favouring price/perf, other times perf/watt, other times VRAM, other times absolute performance, then it has no consistency. Also, what did you expect out of a site that blames AMD for not having CF profiles in GW games when it's outside of their control?
 
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Techhog

Platinum Member
Sep 11, 2013
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Low-profile should be this card's saving grace... but there's not one out there.

Uh... This card is pretty low power, but low profile is really pushing it. I don't think that what you're expecting is reasonable. Have you ever heard of a low profile card which draws more than 100W and needs a PCI power connector? I haven't...

That's superclock, not stock. :\ I'd just reflash it down though.

Uh, why?
 

Blue_Max

Diamond Member
Jul 7, 2011
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Uh... This card is pretty low power, but low profile is really pushing it. I don't think that what you're expecting is reasonable. Have you ever heard of a low profile card which draws more than 100W and needs a PCI power connector? I haven't...

Sparkle made some about 6 years back... I got a low-profile 9600GT with the 6-pin power and all.

I don't think it's that big of a stretch...

I'd buy a GTX 960 in a heartbeat if the price weren't out of balance... It's around $250 Canadian right now. If it were under $200C I could swallow it... $150C I'd consider it a pretty good value. I want to build the smallest ITX mini-cube I can, and the 960 fits the bill best for not overheating. The 970 is tempting but just more money than I can justify. Radeon 280X cards are a great value but too big & hot for my project.
 

Leyawiin

Diamond Member
Nov 11, 2008
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A GTX 960 2GB is down to $179.99 without rebate (PNY with blower style cooler at Newegg). Give its level of performance that's fine.

As for the OP, no, your situation wouldn't make much sense (getting a GTX 960 4GB).
 

shipinabottle

Member
Aug 12, 2011
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Oh? So the 4gb GTX 960 still won't be much better than my 2gb GTX 760? Lol. I thought the extra 2gb might help my games. I just like 9xx series cards for their lower power draw. Oh, well, I guess 970 it is then...
 

Leyawiin

Diamond Member
Nov 11, 2008
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The difference at 1080p is trivial (4GB vs 2GB). At 1440p it can help a little depending on the game and what you do to it (texture mods).
 

Techhog

Platinum Member
Sep 11, 2013
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Sparkle made some about 6 years back... I got a low-profile 9600GT with the 6-pin power and all.

I don't think it's that big of a stretch...

I'd buy a GTX 960 in a heartbeat if the price weren't out of balance... It's around $250 Canadian right now. If it were under $200C I could swallow it... $150C I'd consider it a pretty good value. I want to build the smallest ITX mini-cube I can, and the 960 fits the bill best for not overheating. The 970 is tempting but just more money than I can justify. Radeon 280X cards are a great value but too big & hot for my project.

The 960 still has a noticeably higher TDP than the 9600GT. I also don't know how the die sizes and the number of PCB components compare.

EDIT: I see your point now, but it's not going to happen because there's no money to be made from it. Sadly, your choices are to either move down to the 750 Ti, or to pick a case with full size expansion slots.
 
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Blue_Max

Diamond Member
Jul 7, 2011
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No worries - my cube plan will take a standard card so long as it's not too long. The 960 is still appealing for low power draw and heat. I have a GTX 750 (non-TI) that'll tide me over until I get a super sale, or wait out a deal on a 970.

I was thinking for other folks that a LP version would be very interesting. Looks like the 750TI still holds that crown.
 

Shehriazad

Senior member
Nov 3, 2014
555
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Hold on to your money and get a 970 instead.


960 4G is horribly overpriced for what it delivers.

You can also wait a bit for the 960 Ti...that one was leaked a few times now as well....and it's supposed to come with 3G of Vram and shovel on a bit of extra performance(being close to a 780). If the price is right, it might end up being the PERFECT 1080P card. Or not...who knows. xD
 
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SirPauly

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Apr 28, 2009
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It's still amazing how much praise reviewers gave to the 960 and them completely closing their eyes on the horrible generational leap it offered over the 760 and the crippled 2GB of VRAM at launch.

If one compares to the first iterations of Kepler (6xx) -- solid upgrades. GTX 980 compared to a GTX 680 -- GTX 970 compared to a GTX 670 -- GTX 960 compared to a GTX 660.

My constructive nit-pick since the 28nm node was this with launch msrp's over-all: Even though the node and arches were more-so substantial and significant the price performance felt more-so incremental and evolutionary.

The 960's price performance offers more value when compared to the 970 at 1080p.
 

Techhog

Platinum Member
Sep 11, 2013
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If one compares to the first iterations of Kepler (6xx) -- solid upgrades. GTX 980 compared to a GTX 680 -- GTX 970 compared to a GTX 670 -- GTX 960 compared to a GTX 660.

My constructive nit-pick since the 28nm node was this with launch msrp's over-all: Even though the node and arches were more-so substantial and significant the price performance felt more-so incremental and evolutionary.

The 960's price performance offers more value when compared to the 970 at 1080p.

I guess that it looks fine if you pretend that AMD doesn't exist, and you ignore the fact that 970 is significantly faster than 770, and 980 is significantly faster than 780. People expected the 960 to match the 770, which is why it's disappointing.
 
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SirPauly

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Apr 28, 2009
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970, at launch, wasn't significantly faster than a GTX 770; 980, at launch, wasn't significantly faster than a GTX 780. The pr GM-104 slides were even comparing to a GK-104/GTX 680.

The price/performance from a GTX 770 and GTX 780 felt more-so incremental and evolutionary and why it didn't make much value sense for 770, 780, 780ti owners to upgrade to 970 and 980 at launch, but there were a heck of a lot of 670 and 680 owners, where it made some sense.
 

Techhog

Platinum Member
Sep 11, 2013
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970, at launch, wasn't significantly faster than a GTX 770; 980, at launch, wasn't significantly faster than a GTX 780. The pr GM-104 slides were even comparing to a GK-104/GTX 680.

The price/performance from a GTX 770 and GTX 780 felt more-so incremental and evolutionary and why it didn't make much value sense for 770, 780, 780ti owners to upgrade to 970 and 980 at launch, but there were a heck of a lot of 670 and 680 owners, where it made some sense.

Upgrading from those still doesn't make sense. The point is that, even at launch, the 970 was on-par with the 780, and the 980 was on-par with the 780 Ti. The 960, however, trades blows with the 760. That's ridiculous, and that's why there's such a big gap between the 960 and 970. You're basically revising lying defend the 960. You're correct about why Nvidia used their PR the way they did, but that's irrelevant.
 
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SirPauly

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Apr 28, 2009
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That's ridiculous, and that's why there's such a big gap between the 960 and 970.


There isn't a big gap between the GTX 970 and the GTX 960 from a price/performance stand-point --- the GTX 960 actually offers more value from this metric.