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UPenn swimmer takin' names and setting records!

So she finished almost a minute slower than the world record but faster than this specific group of girls? She is not outperforming women in general?

This article says she smashed the women’s records for 500 yard free but Katie Ledecky holds that record and was 12 seconds faster. Did they choose a finite bunch of records for maximum rage or something?
 
Just another case of not being good enough to hang with the boys so lets just switch teams. Nah bro, if you want to switch go ahead, but forfeiting the privilege to compete in athletics should go along with it.
 
BUTCH1 said:
Yea, enough, while I support anyone's right to be any gender they desire it has to stop with athletic contests,
completely unfair to the women who were born as a woman.
Click to expand...

This.

At the very least make it another division of the sport and have a M2F league.

Looks like he was on the men's team a year or two ago, but wasn't good enough to compete, but it's now on the "women's" team and is killing everyone.
 
MomentsofSanity said:
So she finished almost a minute slower than the world record but faster than this specific group of girls? She is not outperforming women in general?

This article says she smashed the women’s records for 500 yard free but Katie Ledecky holds that record and was 12 seconds faster. Did they choose a finite bunch of records for maximum rage or something?
Click to expand...

It is a little more complicated.

As male, Thomas swam the following times. "1:39.31 in the 200 freestyle, 4:18.72 in the 500 free and 14:54.76 in the 1650. "
Which while fast are nothing like the fastest times in the nation for these events.

Now competing as a female Thomas has posted the following the times 1:41.93 in the 200 and 4:34.06 in the 500 , and also clocked 15:59.71 in the 1650 free.

The 200 and 500 yard Free times are basically the top times in the nation for woman.
 
Bitek said:
This.

At the very least make it another division of the sport and have a M2F league.

Looks like he was on the men's team a year or two ago, but wasn't good enough to compete, but it's now on the "women's" team and is killing everyone.
Click to expand...
Even worse is he's going around bragging his ass off about his/her "dominance"
 
BUTCH1 said:
Yea, enough, while I support anyone's right to be any gender they desire it has to stop with athletic contests,
completely unfair to the women who were born as a woman.
Click to expand...
Yeah agreed. There's gotta be a better solution here, maybe the answer is competitive sports aren't for you, maybe there's a middle ground.. But this clearly isn't the answer.
 
Brainonska511 said:
Purposefully misgendering someone just means you're an asshole.


Edit:
Also, I'm sure the Daily Mail article is well balanced and fair to the truth. They are after all known for their non-inflammatory reporting.
Click to expand...

The swimmer is an asshole.

After not able to become better than a second rate male swimmer, just popping some hormone pills, growing out your hair then joining the women's league to run up cheap victories is just offensive to everyone. Certainly not fair to natural female athletes who've worked their asses off their whole lives to get there.

We're assholes if we can't call that out.
 
Bitek said:
The swimmer is an asshole.

After not able to become better than a second rate male swimmer, just popping some hormone pills, growing out your hair then joining the women's league to run up cheap victories is just offensive to everyone. Certainly not fair to natural female athletes who've worked their asses off their whole lives to get there.

We're assholes if we can't call that out.
Click to expand...
Also not fair to people who do transition and just want to live in a fair and just society.
 
BUTCH1 said:
Yea, enough, while I support anyone's right to be any gender they desire it has to stop with athletic contests,
completely unfair to the women who were born as a woman.
Click to expand...

Last time I suggested that there is more to biology than sex hormones and that you do have an unfair advantage if you go through male puberty I was lambasted for being a transphobe.
 
Easiest way to fix this is to just rename it male and female sports. While Kia is a woman she is not a female so that would take care of that.
 
BUTCH1 said:
Yea, enough, while I support anyone's right to be any gender they desire it has to stop with athletic contests,
completely unfair to the women who were born as a woman.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

Artorias said:
Just another case of not being good enough to hang with the boys so lets just switch teams. Nah bro, if you want to switch go ahead, but forfeiting the privilege to compete in athletics should go along with it.
Click to expand...

Agreed

Bitek said:
The swimmer is an asshole.

After not able to become better than a second rate male swimmer, just popping some hormone pills, growing out your hair then joining the women's league to run up cheap victories is just offensive to everyone. Certainly not fair to natural female athletes who've worked their asses off their whole lives to get there.

We're assholes if we can't call that out.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

I don't give a shit, fully transitioned or not, if you were born with a penis, you're a man and should be restricted to competing in men's/boy's sports.
 
I'm very progressive in most social and fiscal topics but this one is a third rail to me.

Transgender athletes introduce the same validity and fairness questions of PEDS.

There's really not much that can change my mind on that.
 
I am transgender and this is hard topic to "get right." I can see where both sides are coming and right now I can't side with either. They both have valid points and contentions. Basically, we don't have the right answer right now and it it needs more study to understand. There is a legitimate reason why there are male and female sports as there are distinct differences in how males and females develop.

Having a transgender person creates contention and in reality even being on hormones doesn't solve all the problem. There are some studies saying after starting hormone treatment tends to reduce muscle mass similar to the opposite gender. However, that does not take into account the bone structure, the developed heart, lungs or over physical size. On the flip side, there are women who produce more testosterone naturally who tend to have masculine traits.

Basically, what I am saying is it very muddy and I don't know if there will be a right answer. I believe in being fair and respectful.
 
Of course this whole preposterous mess is abused by the delusional belief that if you can create a contest about anything under the sun and be better at it than someone else victory will really make you feel you are worthless. If it were only that easy. That magnificent ego victory with it’s adrenaline high will disappear in a flash as soon as something, person or event, reminds you you are worthless at something else.

The only victory with real reward is knowing yourself.
 
cscpianoman said:
I am transgender and this is hard topic to "get right." I can see where both sides are coming and right now I can't side with either. They both have valid points and contentions. Basically, we don't have the right answer right now and it it needs more study to understand. There is a legitimate reason why there are male and female sports as there are distinct differences in how males and females develop.

Having a transgender person creates contention and in reality even being on hormones doesn't solve all the problem. There are some studies saying after starting hormone treatment tends to reduce muscle mass similar to the opposite gender. However, that does not take into account the bone structure, the developed heart, lungs or over physical size. On the flip side, there are women who produce more testosterone naturally who tend to have masculine traits.

Basically, what I am saying is it very muddy and I don't know if there will be a right answer. I believe in being fair and respectful.
Click to expand...
The answer is simple for me. If I were to be of athletic age, and wished to become a female, I would be bound by my own moral sensibilities not to participate in competitive athletic sports.
 
Yeah I come from a competitive sports background that is one of the most pure in terms of individual performance and ability - cross country and distance running.

Just being male I've got almost a 3 minute 5k advantage over a woman. In most categories for men there's a several minute difference there.

I know what my exertion level is when I'm giving it all and when I'm dogging it. In many races I could have dogged it and still placed very high in a women's bracket.

I'm just very torn, especially in the male to female categories and having the bone, muscle and cardiovascular structure of a male originally. I see how hard women work and a transgender can come in and give less and get more. I just don't see it as fair there.
 
Brainonska511 said:
Purposefully misgendering someone just means you're an asshole.


Edit:
Also, I'm sure the Daily Mail article is well balanced and fair to the truth. They are after all known for their non-inflammatory reporting.
Click to expand...
Seems like the fair and balanced truth is the you are ok with a guy bettering themselves at the expense of women. Simpletons like yourself support it and then want to call out the non cultists of the Progresshevik Church as misogynists.
 
brandonbull said:
Seems like the fair and balanced truth is the you are ok with a guy bettering themselves at the expense of women. Simpletons like yourself support it and then want to call out the non cultists of the Progresshevik Church as misogynists.
Click to expand...
Your opinion is really useless here because you are one of the shittiest human beings on the planet. Let civilized humans debate you neanderthal.
 
Moonbeam said:
The answer is simple for me. If I were to be of athletic age, and wished to become a female, I would be bound by my own moral sensibilities not to participate in competitive athletic sports.
Click to expand...

I wish that were the sentiment across the board.

I have no intention of trying to put myself as "loud and proud." It's not my nature or personality. I also have to contend with bleeding disorder and competitive sports tend to be the farthest thing from my mind.

My wife had a interesting thought, in the world, how many transgender hemophilia B doctors are there...I am just that weird I guess.
 
cscpianoman said:
I am transgender and this is hard topic to "get right." I can see where both sides are coming and right now I can't side with either. They both have valid points and contentions. Basically, we don't have the right answer right now and it it needs more study to understand. There is a legitimate reason why there are male and female sports as there are distinct differences in how males and females develop.

Having a transgender person creates contention and in reality even being on hormones doesn't solve all the problem. There are some studies saying after starting hormone treatment tends to reduce muscle mass similar to the opposite gender. However, that does not take into account the bone structure, the developed heart, lungs or over physical size. On the flip side, there are women who produce more testosterone naturally who tend to have masculine traits.

Basically, what I am saying is it very muddy and I don't know if there will be a right answer. I believe in being fair and respectful.
Click to expand...
It's not not a hard thing to get right. Men are by and large stronger than women. That's proven every single day in sports. Men that translon into women keep a great deal of that advantage. What's difficult to understand about that? Transsexuals' competing against women in sports have a natural and unfair advantage. The proof is right in front of us. It's a glaring injustice to the women that have poured heart and soul into being the best to be beaten by someone they shouldn't have had to compete against.
The answer is simple, don't do it.
 
Gender is one thing. How or whether you "identify" is personal.

That said, your genes do matter in multiple ways, especially in regards to hormone production, regardless of hormone therapy.

Seems to be an easy fix.

XX genes - XX League

XY genes - XY League.

"Gender" still remains irrelevant.

This is one way that the normies find "identity" to be a disruption and I agree with them. I'd argue that sports should be totally extra-curricular, as in outside of schools altogether, but I digress.
 
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