(Updated) Yet another request for someone to talk me down... (E39 M5 related)

[alkemyst]

Now is the time to buy these kinds of cars. A lot of the rich had M series for weekend, play time. With the economy and a surprising many of them affected by Madoff...many are liquidating all toys.

I am looking at spending about 15k for a cherry E36 M3 this next year. 10k could get me a really nice one as well but with mileage closer to 100k.

I am going to supercharge or turbo it. Put on a basic suspension package. Throw in some nice audio and call it a day I think.

Alpine White

 

[Arkaign]

Now is the time to buy these kinds of cars. A lot of the rich had M series for weekend, play time. With the economy and a surprising many of them affected by Madoff...many are liquidating all toys.

I am looking at spending about 15k for a cherry E36 M3 this next year. 10k could get me a really nice one as well but with mileage closer to 100k.

I am going to supercharge or turbo it. Put on a basic suspension package. Throw in some nice audio and call it a day I think.

Alpine White

I like those E36's, but $15k, that's really close to minty E46 M3 range, which (in the US at least) is a lot more powerful, 333hp vs. ~240? I know the European market E36 3.2 M3 was also 300+hp, but for some reason the US model was pretty hardcore neutered. The E46 gen did gain ~300lbs, but 240hp/3100lbs vs. 333hp/3400lbs, I'd have to lean towards the E46. Supercharged though, I bet you could get a lot of the 'lost' power back, and then some on that E36.

 

[DarkThinker]

8-10 years old is a sweet spot for higher-end cars. You just have to be willing to accept the maintenance requirements.

The dealer is going to list it at $16,900, but edmunds TMV is a bit over $14,000. If the car checks out, I'm going to hold at $15,000 out the door. If they match it, great. If not, there will be other cars later.

ZV

Absolutely, having patience and showing the dealer that you have better options is how it's done.

Me for instance, by being the shameless low baller that I am is how I finally got a dealer to shave off near $3K of the asking price. In my case, I demonstrated to the dealer that I had better options in a neighboring state and that I was willing to walk out the door if I didn't get what I wanted or what was pretty close to it.

That applies mostly to cars that don't sell quick like accords, camry ...etc of such common cars. I know almost for a fact that the dealer maybe made $300 maybe $400 tops on that sale to me. He got a taste for the sale and I got a good deal and we are both happy. But we know dealers really like making $1000+ on sales and that's why prices are sometimes just silly.

 

[fstime]

The only reason those E36 "//M" cars receive so much attention is the badge.

If it wasnt for that, they would be just another plain jane 3 series forgotten in history.

I've driven plenty and have been left disappointed by the power every time. No surprise considering we didn't get the REAL thing here in the US.

I guarantee 90% of all the E36 M3's you see will be in horrible condition with an extremely dated and age interior and exterior.

Being "fake" //M cars means their resale values were never as good as the real deal which hold their value very well(even though they are still a tad overpriced), it meant rice boy teens could pick them up for cheap bloat about driving a BMW M.

15K for an E36 better be one in MINT condition with under 50,000 miles.

 

[fbrdphreak]

Sounds like somebody REALLY wants a BMW.

 

[DarkThinker]

Sounds like somebody REALLY wants a BMW.

hey fbrd, I haven't spotted you posting in a while.

Didn't you own an 850 at some point? Is it still kicking?

I grew up really really wanting an 850 or an M5 and I ended up going with Cadillac...go figure heh

 

[alkemyst]

I like those E36's, but $15k, that's really close to minty E46 M3 range, which (in the US at least) is a lot more powerful, 333hp vs. ~240? I know the European market E36 3.2 M3 was also 300+hp, but for some reason the US model was pretty hardcore neutered. The E46 gen did gain ~300lbs, but 240hp/3100lbs vs. 333hp/3400lbs, I'd have to lean towards the E46. Supercharged though, I bet you could get a lot of the 'lost' power back, and then some on that E36.

15k would buy an E46 M3 as well. I have no desire for one other than the exterior's look nice. The interior feels like you are driving your dad's Lexus more than a performance car.

They also worked hard to detach the driver from everything that make the M3 an M3.

The E36 just feels connected whereas the E46 is more like a video game.

Plus I like the exterior looks of the E36 much better.

 

[alkemyst]

I've driven plenty and have been left disappointed by the power every time. No surprise considering we didn't get the REAL thing here in the US.

I guarantee 90% of all the E36 M3's you see will be in horrible condition with an extremely dated and age interior and exterior.

Being "fake" //M cars means their resale values were never as good as the real deal which hold their value very well(even though they are still a tad overpriced), it meant rice boy teens could pick them up for cheap bloat about driving a BMW M.

So you can out drive the E36 M3?

Anyway, most of the M3's of any year are in surprisingly good shape as many that bought them did so for second and third cars...there are some basket cases out there.

I don't get the whole teen thing, around here we have teens driving new Ferrari's and the like though.

 

[Koing]

DO IT!

My mate has an E39 M5, pulls ridiculously well even with 4 passengers and luggage! It felt soft in corners though imo. My E46 M3 feels soft relative to the S2000 but it's getting better as I'm forgetting how the S2000 feels in corners

Maintenance is a non issue if you bank £500 per year on average for the life of the car for oil changes and the inspections.

Tyres will cost you £800-1000 a full set. Not cheap but what do you expect when you get a car with 400BHp. If you want a fast car then you better get some decent tyres along with it!

The interior is a bit bland but f0ck it, it's not about the interior and it's all about the performance of the car.

It's all relative so if you can live with it go for it. You only live once. Don't put your finances out of place to get a car, but it looks perfectly within reason to get the car.

Petrol will cost you more but you will LOVE driving it! I LOVE driving my car. It puts a smile on my face everytime and I love seeing it as I go out to work at stupid hours and returning to take it out to the gym. Priceless.

DO IT

Koing

 

[hans007]

just buy it.

it might cost a lot to maintain, but you are getting it very cheap given the performance. plus it looks great (the new F10 one is trying to get back to this elegant type look, but it still isnt quite there).

Worst case scenario you get tired of paying for maintenance and sell it. I mean its an M car and you sound like you want it. just jump off the cliff and get it.

 

[Arkaign]

DO IT!

My mate has an E39 M5, pulls ridiculously well even with 4 passengers and luggage! It felt soft in corners though imo. My E46 M3 feels soft relative to the S2000 but it's getting better as I'm forgetting how the S2000 feels in corners

Koing

I agree, do it!

I think you may be confusing 'soft' with 'heavy'. The stock E46 M3 will easily hold corners as well as a stock S2K, but the added weight gives you a more detached feeling, and you really have to trust a heavy car with good grip to dig in and take you around that corner. The added weight will also increase body roll, so that feels 'soft' as well, although the suspension and dynamics of the M cars will grab and go all the way to the limit (and then be relatively forgiving should you exceed that limit).

 

[StageLeft]

So are you getting it or what?

 

[Zenmervolt]

So are you getting it or what?

I have an appointment with my mechanic tomorrow at 1:00 to have the car looked over, then I start working on negotiating price.

 

[StageLeft]

I have an appointment with my mechanic tomorrow at 1:00 to have the car looked over, then I start working on negotiating price.

 

[DietDrThunder]

Everyone suggest for him to by the car. Then when he does buy it, everyone go back and change their posts to say not to buy it.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Everyone suggest for him to by the car. Then when he does buy it, everyone go back and change their posts to say not to buy it.

I have a sneaking suspicion that this was already planned.

ZV

 

[fbrdphreak]

Get it dude. Then tell me all the shit that's wrong with it, so I know if I should consider one

 

[Arkaign]

I have a sneaking suspicion that this was already planned.

ZV

I'm not gonna change my mind, owning one was hands-down one of the best experiences of my life, and I'll do it again if finances permit (I have significant obligations at the moment that take priority).

 

[exdeath]

The only reason those E36 "//M" cars receive so much attention is the badge.

If it wasnt for that, they would be just another plain jane 3 series forgotten in history.

I've driven plenty and have been left disappointed by the power every time. No surprise considering we didn't get the REAL thing here in the US.

I guarantee 90% of all the E36 M3's you see will be in horrible condition with an extremely dated and age interior and exterior.

Being "fake" //M cars means their resale values were never as good as the real deal which hold their value very well(even though they are still a tad overpriced), it meant rice boy teens could pick them up for cheap bloat about driving a BMW M.

15K for an E36 better be one in MINT condition with under 50,000 miles.

Most BMW enthusiasts consider the older M cars the last 'real' BMWs that were performance oriented raw driver's cars; you, 4 wheels and a suspension, an engine, steering wheel, gear selector, and 3 pedals. Not a computerized jack of all trades master of none luxury liner that the more recent cars are.

E46 is a nice daily driver, but an older M would have infinitely more potential as a track/street car.

 

[exdeath]

I agree, do it!

I think you may be confusing 'soft' with 'heavy'. The stock E46 M3 will easily hold corners as well as a stock S2K, but the added weight gives you a more detached feeling, and you really have to trust a heavy car with good grip to dig in and take you around that corner. The added weight will also increase body roll, so that feels 'soft' as well, although the suspension and dynamics of the M cars will grab and go all the way to the limit (and then be relatively forgiving should you exceed that limit).

They have the same problem as the Terminators; soft crumbly rubber shit that doesn't belong in the suspension. BMW even has a recall for some of the rears, and the new bushings are much more substantial. Nothing a few $$$ in UHMW urethane/delrin/aluminum can't fix.

 

[DivideBYZero]

Most BMW enthusiasts consider the older M cars the last 'real' BMWs that were performance oriented raw driver's cars; you, 4 wheels and a suspension, an engine, steering wheel, gear selector, and 3 pedals. Not a computerized jack of all trades master of none luxury liner that the more recent cars are.

E46 is a nice daily driver, but an older M would have infinitely more potential as a track/street car.

The US Spec E36 was massively gimped. The original Euro version had 289hp, then the Evo version had 320Hp. A really different animal.

 

[Koing]

I agree, do it!

I think you may be confusing 'soft' with 'heavy'. The stock E46 M3 will easily hold corners as well as a stock S2K, but the added weight gives you a more detached feeling, and you really have to trust a heavy car with good grip to dig in and take you around that corner. The added weight will also increase body roll, so that feels 'soft' as well, although the suspension and dynamics of the M cars will grab and go all the way to the limit (and then be relatively forgiving should you exceed that limit).

I think you are correct. On the later laps on the track I felt more confident in the car. It's a really weird feeling, feelign the car lean in to the corner a lot and then hold. I also think it didn't help I did my first track day after about 2 weeks of ownership and only about 200miles if that in the car

The E46 M3 doesn't have the same g rating as the S2000 so it's a little less but as to if I 'could' feel it to the limit is doubtful but I could feel the initial lean and it would hold. The track being wet also did not inspire confident until it dried out later. I've also done a track day in thet wet in the S2000 and it felt uber sideways action but I had been in the car longer so I was a lot more confident.

M3 is a lot more forgiving then the S2000 to drive.

Everyone suggest for him to by the car. Then when he does buy it, everyone go back and change their posts to say not to buy it.

I won't be one of those guys.

Most BMW enthusiasts consider the older M cars the last 'real' BMWs that were performance oriented raw driver's cars; you, 4 wheels and a suspension, an engine, steering wheel, gear selector, and 3 pedals. Not a computerized jack of all trades master of none luxury liner that the more recent cars are.

E46 is a nice daily driver, but an older M would have infinitely more potential as a track/street car.

If I was loaded I'd have an Exige/ Caterham for track day duties but since I'm not I'd have to make do that a car that can do quite a few things well. I'd still love to keep my S2000 for pure track days but that isn't feasible and I'd want some more speed. I suppose if I could keep the S2000 I could strip it and run semi slicks on it with some suspension mods to it and it would feel like a new beast!

Koing

 

[Zenmervolt]

And the continuing saga continues.

Had the car inspected by my mechanics today. Rear differential seals are ever-so-slightly weeping (recommendation, clean it, flush it, check it again in 5,000 miles, but it's probably nothing to worry about). Clutch is "stiff" and they say it feels as though it's nearing its end of life even though it's not slipping yet. Needs brakes immediately, both pads and rotors.

Noticed the local BMW dealer listed in the Carfax report, so I called their service desk to see if anyone remembered the car. The service guys did and were able to pull up complete maintenance records for the car. Apparently the car was sold new by the local dealership and has been serviced there ever since. The owner never missed any of the recommended services and, according to the service manager, was usually early for its maintenance requirements. Most recent brake job was the fronts, 30,000 miles ago, with a 4-wheel brake job about 60,000 miles ago, which basically confirms the analysis by my mechanic that the car needs brakes essentially immediately. Cam position sensors (the only common electronics issue with the '01 M5) were replaced at 30,000 miles with the revised design, so the VANOS system should be good.

There was one bombshell though. The car is on its original clutch. While it's possible that the owner had the clutch done elsewhere, that is extremely unlikely since every other service (including mundane things like tires and the battery) was done by the dealership.

So, basically, what I am looking at is a perfect 1-owner M5 with a complete service history that "only" needs brakes (now), and a clutch (within ~10,000 miles). This is $5,000 worth of work, but it's also routine maintenance that isn't, or shouldn't be, surprising.

ZV

 

[alkemyst]

WTF, $5k for brakes and a clutch? This canadian dollars or something?

 

[Zenmervolt]

WTF, $5k for brakes and a clutch? This canadian dollars or something?

Dealer price for the clutch alone is $4,500. I'm just quoting prices through my mechanic.

Clutch:

Pressure plate, disc, flywheel: $1,483.35
Labor: 9 hours ($990)

Brakes:

Discs: $900 ($250/each front, $200/each rear)
Pads: $325 ($175 front, $150 rear)
Labor: 4 hours ($440)

Total: $4,138.35

Then add in things like replacing brake hoses, ($225 in parts, $165 labor) and anything else they find while there in there and it comes out to right around $5,000 in likely work.

Brakes I can do on my own, but the cost there is in the parts.

ZV