**Updated** Top Whitehouse aides try to skirt the system

RightIsWrong

Diamond Member
Apr 29, 2005
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Did a quick search and didn't find anything on this (not like, if something was out there that not finding it would be a first though).

It seems that everyone from Rove down to the drones were trying to circumvent the archive system by not using their official accounts for anything that they thought could lead to possible legal battles later. Unfortunately for them, they don't realize the laws still apply to those e-mails as well.

This is probably going to open up a whole bunch of closet doors the Bushies thought would be locked tight forever. Or at least till the statutes of limitations passed by.

GOP Groups Told to Keep Bush Officials' E-Mails
Democrat Cites Investigation of Firings

By R. Jeffrey Smith
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, March 27, 2007; Page A03

A Democratic House committee chairman yesterday told the Republican National Committee and the Bush-Cheney '04 campaign to retain copies of all e-mails sent or received by White House officials using e-mail accounts under their control, raising the political stakes in the congressional inquiry into U.S. attorneys' firings.

Rep. Henry A. Waxman (D-Calif.) said his broadly written request was based on evidence that White House officials -- particularly aides to top political adviser Karl Rove -- have used their politically related e-mail accounts to hide the conduct of official business regarding the prosecutor firings and other matters being investigated by Congress.

"The e-mails of White House officials maintained on RNC e-mail accounts may be relevant to multiple congressional investigations," Waxman wrote to the group's chairman, Mike Duncan, adding that as "governmental records" they are subject to preservation requirements and "eventual public disclosure."

Waxman, chairman of the Oversight and Government Reform Committee, said he also expects Duncan and Marc Racicot, the former Bush-Cheney campaign chief, to arrange a briefing on how their groups control and preserve such e-mails. A spokeswoman for Duncan, Tracey Schmitt, said of Waxman's letter, "We're reviewing it and will take appropriate action." Racicot did not return a phone call.

The request by a Democratic lawmaker for access to records kept by a rival party's campaign offices has a precedent: In the mid-1990s, when the same committee was under Republican control and investigating alleged campaign finance abuses by the Clinton White House, it demanded and obtained hundreds of pages of Democratic campaign records and communications.

"This is a classic congressional document-preservation warning," said University of Baltimore law professor Charles Tiefer, a former deputy and acting counsel to the House from 1984 to 1995. He said failure to comply could expose the groups to possible obstruction charges.

Yesterday's request was based, Waxman said, on at least three White House officials' use of Republican Party-affiliated e-mail accounts for some of their work in recent years, as well as on reports that Rove routinely uses his RNC e-mail account for business.

Waxman noted for example that J. Scott Jennings, the White House deputy director of political affairs, used a "gwb43.com" e-mail account last August to discuss the replacement of the U.S. attorney for Arkansas, Bud Cummins, according to e-mails released to Congress by the White House.

Barry Jackson, a deputy to Rove, in 2003 used a "georgewbush.com" e-mail account to consult with Neil G. Volz, then an aide to lobbyist Jack Abramoff, about nominating one of Abramoff's Indian tribe clients for a Medal of Freedom, according to a copy of an e-mail. Abramoff is now serving a prison sentence for bank fraud, and Volz plead guilty to conspiracy charges last year.


Susan B. Ralston, while she was executive assistant to Rove, similarly used "georgewbush.com" and "rnchq.org" e-mail accounts to confer in 2001 and 2003 with Abramoff, her former boss, about matters of interest to Abramoff's clients.

In a related e-mail, an Abramoff aide said Ralston had warned that "it is better to not put this stuff in writing in [the White House] . . . email system because it might actually limit what they can do to help us, especially since there could be lawsuits, etc."


Abramoff's response, according to a copy of his e-mail, was: "Dammit. It was sent to Susan on her rnc pager and was not supposed to go into the WH system."

Waxman said the exchange indicated that in some instances, White House officials were using nongovernmental accounts "specifically to avoid creating a record of communications" that are nonetheless subject to the committee's jurisdiction.
 

Kwaipie

Golden Member
Nov 30, 2005
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I would have thought that the white house would have to keep every transaction running across their wire.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
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Not only are they trying to hide their dirty laundry by using outside email accounts, they lied about it by claiming it was for "campaign purposes only" and of course it's discovered that the outside communications covered the gamut of official WH business.
 

RightIsWrong

Diamond Member
Apr 29, 2005
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Originally posted by: Kwaipie
I would have thought that the white house would have to keep every transaction running across their wire.

They do have to. I found in another story related to the same topic that they were using Blackberries given to them directly from the RNC and running their mail through their servers instead and texting when it was just something quick.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,539
6,705
126
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Not belittle the argument, but I highly doubt this is a new thing....

You're not? Then what possible other purpose could your absurd comment serve? What evidence do you have to suggest any reality to it. What aspect of your personality, confronted with crime immediately jumps to to viewpoint that oh well I bet that's not the first time this has happened. It would be interesting to see somebody punch you in the nose and watch you reply, you know my friend Joe actually hit me harder. There is definitely something wrong with the way you think.
 

smashp

Platinum Member
Aug 30, 2003
2,443
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Originally posted by: blackangst1
Not belittle the argument, but I highly doubt this is a new thing....

It is actually. Remember Email use and Crackberry dependence has grown increasingly since
2000.

And any IT person worth his salt will tell you that. Looks like the GWB43.com domain was using its own Mail System ( Most likely Exchange) and that the records retention was scrubbed every 30 days on that server.

Compared to the White house Email Server where every email has to be achieved and Kept.

If you know that By law every email that travels through system A will be forever kept, archieved, and stored......... And you Cant have that, you just put up another email system that doesnt.


They were using 2 email domains for communication. 1 for public, 1 for private.


Now because of this, they are going to have to turn over and records from any officialy used email systems, which in this case is from the RNC.


These headaches I deal with everyday. Messaging arcieving and compliance. Email records retention. Mail server administration and recovery.

Thats my Job. Now big coporations can and have been sued and fined for not keeping proper records. So should the Whitehouse
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
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Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Not belittle the argument, but I highly doubt this is a new thing....

You're not? Then what possible other purpose could your absurd comment serve? What evidence do you have to suggest any reality to it. What aspect of your personality, confronted with crime immediately jumps to to viewpoint that oh well I bet that's not the first time this has happened. It would be interesting to see somebody punch you in the nose and watch you reply, you know my friend Joe actually hit me harder. There is definitely something wrong with the way you think.

Yeah, his failed reasoning is evident in many of the threads here. Mostly it goes something like: "Clinton did it!" or "Democrats are doing it too." Lame, lame, lame.
 

smashp

Platinum Member
Aug 30, 2003
2,443
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GWB43.com
Registrant:
Republican National Committee
310 First Street SE
Washington, DC 20003
US

Domain Name: GWB43.COM

Administrative Contact , Technical Contact :
Republican National Committee
dns@RNCHQ.ORG
310 First Street SE
Washington, DC 20003

Registrant:
Bush-Cheney '04, Inc.
P.O. Box 10648
Arlington, VA 22210
US

Domain Name: GEORGEWBUSH.COM

Administrative Contact , Technical Contact :
Bush-Cheney '04, Inc.
Chuck@georgewbush.com
P.O. Box 10648
Arlington, VA 22210
US
Phone: 703-647-2700



And their mail is hosted by this company. http://smartechcorp.net/
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
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Originally posted by: Kwaipie
I would have thought that the white house would have to keep every transaction running across their wire.

Why? You understand there are MANY security programs and departments that fall under the radar by design right?

Im not trying be a conspiracy theorist, but the general term black ops applies here.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Not belittle the argument, but I highly doubt this is a new thing....

You're not? Then what possible other purpose could your absurd comment serve? What evidence do you have to suggest any reality to it. What aspect of your personality, confronted with crime immediately jumps to to viewpoint that oh well I bet that's not the first time this has happened. It would be interesting to see somebody punch you in the nose and watch you reply, you know my friend Joe actually hit me harder. There is definitely something wrong with the way you think.

Boo hoo hoo
 

smashp

Platinum Member
Aug 30, 2003
2,443
0
0
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Not belittle the argument, but I highly doubt this is a new thing....

You're not? Then what possible other purpose could your absurd comment serve? What evidence do you have to suggest any reality to it. What aspect of your personality, confronted with crime immediately jumps to to viewpoint that oh well I bet that's not the first time this has happened. It would be interesting to see somebody punch you in the nose and watch you reply, you know my friend Joe actually hit me harder. There is definitely something wrong with the way you think.

Boo hoo hoo



Tell me what first hand knowledge do you have about data retention and recovery systems, in this case specifically email communications?
 
Jan 9, 2007
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I was also an Exchange administrator, and journaling of mail is a HUGE deal. That they attempted to evade it isn't surprising, but this is a direct issue of compliance. I can hear the mail administrators taking a collective sip of coffee, preparing to go yet another night without sleep due to attempts to evade compliance.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,808
83
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if they thought they were acting within the scope of their authority, why did they go out of their way to avoid the white house email system?

are you really going to argue that karl rove should fall under the covert ops category?
 
Jan 9, 2007
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Anyone ever involved in network security, data retention and email/messaging systems during an SEC lawsuit will tell you that the things people do to evade journaling systems approaches the absurd, but all that it takes is one person to do something dumb (like post under the wrong profile) and the whole chain unravels. Fortunately, there are usually two or three that do.

By the way, RIM servers are journaled too, as are many messaging systems. That's how most of them get caught; they know that some messages get journaled on certain systems, but think that some are not traceable. And some aren't, LOL; it's just that your average politician, government administrator and lawyer is absolutely clueless about which ones those are. That's "security" for you.
 

MonkeyK

Golden Member
May 27, 2001
1,396
8
81
Originally posted by: smashp
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Not belittle the argument, but I highly doubt this is a new thing....

You're not? Then what possible other purpose could your absurd comment serve? What evidence do you have to suggest any reality to it. What aspect of your personality, confronted with crime immediately jumps to to viewpoint that oh well I bet that's not the first time this has happened. It would be interesting to see somebody punch you in the nose and watch you reply, you know my friend Joe actually hit me harder. There is definitely something wrong with the way you think.

Boo hoo hoo



Tell me what first hand knowledge do you have about data retention and recovery systems, in this case specifically email communications?

Watch what you say. He's a member of MENSA!

 

smashp

Platinum Member
Aug 30, 2003
2,443
0
0
Originally posted by: Equinox
Anyone ever involved in network security, data retention and email/messaging systems during an SEC lawsuit will tell you that the things people do to evade journaling systems approaches the absurd, but all that it takes is one person to do something dumb (like post under the wrong profile) and the whole chain unravels. Fortunately, there are usually two or three that do.

By the way, RIM servers are journaled too, as are many messaging systems. That's how most of them get caught; they know that some messages get journaled on certain systems, but think that some are not traceable. And some aren't, LOL; it's just that your average politician, government administrator and lawyer is absolutely clueless about which ones those are. That's "security" for you.


My Personal Favorites are the idiots that delete all their email in outlook to hide something they shouldnt be doing right before they quit or get fired.
 

shadow9d9

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2004
8,132
2
0
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Not belittle the argument, but I highly doubt this is a new thing....

You're not? Then what possible other purpose could your absurd comment serve? What evidence do you have to suggest any reality to it. What aspect of your personality, confronted with crime immediately jumps to to viewpoint that oh well I bet that's not the first time this has happened. It would be interesting to see somebody punch you in the nose and watch you reply, you know my friend Joe actually hit me harder. There is definitely something wrong with the way you think.

Boo hoo hoo

Troll.
 
Jan 9, 2007
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Heh heh, and you pull it right out of their profiles deleted items. Yep that saved you ;). It's not like last nights backup didn't get your whole mailbox or that the archive system didn't copy it either..LOL

The common public has no idea what gets logged on something even as simple as a website. You can bust many people on activities like that alone...do they really think nobody is making backups, and moving logs to be perused later if necessary? Guess not.
 

ayabe

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2005
7,449
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I wouldn't consider blackberry's to be secure enough for highly sensitive government work. I mean the IRS loses a laptop just about every other day on average.

Yet somehow I get a new laptop for work every year, am on the road for about 20 weeks a year and have yet to lose one. :confused:
 

UberNeuman

Lifer
Nov 4, 1999
16,937
3,087
126
Originally posted by: MonkeyK
Originally posted by: smashp
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Not belittle the argument, but I highly doubt this is a new thing....

You're not? Then what possible other purpose could your absurd comment serve? What evidence do you have to suggest any reality to it. What aspect of your personality, confronted with crime immediately jumps to to viewpoint that oh well I bet that's not the first time this has happened. It would be interesting to see somebody punch you in the nose and watch you reply, you know my friend Joe actually hit me harder. There is definitely something wrong with the way you think.

Boo hoo hoo



Tell me what first hand knowledge do you have about data retention and recovery systems, in this case specifically email communications?

Watch what you say. He's a member of MENSA!

You better watch it before he rips his shirt off and tosses some chairs around and starts yelping, "I'm ready to play! I'M READY TO PLAY1!!!13S43!!!

 
Jan 9, 2007
180
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Anyone interested in the contents of some of those emails can find them in PDF format. They are a very interesting study in contradictions. These are the *actual* emails. Then you don't have to even wonder; you can read them for yourself:

http://judiciary.house.gov/Printshop.aspx?Section=464

Those are the meat of it, the ones released on the 13th of March specifically show that there were more than a few lies told by the administration - things such as saying they did one thing but in writing email showing they did another...LOL. Politicians bend the truth, but bad ones get caught doing it.

http://judiciary.house.gov/Printshop.aspx?Section=345
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Originally posted by: Equinox
Anyone interested in the contents of some of those emails can find them in PDF format. They are a very interesting study in contradictions. These are the *actual* emails. Then you don't have to even wonder; you can read them for yourself:

http://judiciary.house.gov/Printshop.aspx?Section=464

Those are the meat of it, the ones released on the 13th of March specifically show that there were more than a few lies told by the administration - things such as saying they did one thing but in writing email showing they did another...LOL. Politicians bend the truth, but bad ones get caught doing it.

http://judiciary.house.gov/Printshop.aspx?Section=345

Wow, interesting stuff for sure. It all points to the fact that AG Gonzales and crew knew that their political firings would touch off a shitstorm in Washington and true to form ... they did.
 
Aug 1, 2006
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Originally posted by: smashp
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Not belittle the argument, but I highly doubt this is a new thing....

You're not? Then what possible other purpose could your absurd comment serve? What evidence do you have to suggest any reality to it. What aspect of your personality, confronted with crime immediately jumps to to viewpoint that oh well I bet that's not the first time this has happened. It would be interesting to see somebody punch you in the nose and watch you reply, you know my friend Joe actually hit me harder. There is definitely something wrong with the way you think.

Boo hoo hoo



Tell me what first hand knowledge do you have about data retention and recovery systems, in this case specifically email communications?
Why, when he can deliver scathing one line rebuttals consisting of the words Boo hoo hoo.
 

CallMeJoe

Diamond Member
Jul 30, 2004
6,938
5
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One question for the legal eagles here; what does the use of RNC and Bush campaign accounts do to the argument of executive privilege? Does the movement of these discussions outside of official White House channels move them out of that protection?