[Updated]Review: Dell 1900FP vs Planar 191M 19inch LCDs

Schnieds

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Jul 18, 2002
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Review: Dell 1900FP vs Planar 191M
by Schnieds

Testing Platform:

P4 2.3 GHz
GeForce 4 Ti4200 DVI Connection
1280x1024 Res @ 32bit color

Ghosting / Fast Motion Blurring:

I tested both panels with the following games and movies:

Games: Unreal Tourn 2003; Serious Sam SE; RTCW; Jedi Knight II; Warcraft III; NOLF2
(I used 1280x1024 Res @ 32bit color for all games except NOLF2, which did not support this resolution.)
Movies: Matrix: Lobby Shooting Spree

Winner: Dell 1900FP

Both panels did a great job in all of the tests, however the 1900FP was a little bit better handling the motion of fast moving games and movies. I did not notice what I would term to be ?Ghosting? (although the definition of ghosting seems to be up for debate) on either panel during most of the games. I did notice some slight ghosting in NOLF2 on both panels, however I think this may have been due to the lack of NOLF2's support of both panel's native resolution of 1280x1024. Overall you really had to look to see it even in NOLF2. I could not find any in any of the other games, or the movie that I tested. The 1900FP did however cope with fast moving images in a more solid manner. The Planar, while doing a great job, left me feeling a little bit disoriented because the pixels weren't responding to the game/movie as quickly as I would have liked. The 1900FP however did a fantastic job, and I did not feel disoriented at all.

I would personally term ghosting as pixel motion trails left behind when an image changes onscreen quickly. Neither panel displayed this behavior at any point during my tests. However, if you have ever played a game or watched a movie on an LCD you will notice that the motion on the screen is quite different than a CRT. The 1900FP did not deviate much from the standard feel of a CRT and didn't take much time to get used to. The Planar however, did have more of the LCD motion lag and made it difficult for me to keep my bearings in very fast moving games. In DVDs, I didn't notice any difference between panels.

[Update]
After using the 1900FP panel for the last month in many different applications and having more time to test it, I have found some new and interesting ghosting results. In my previous observations and testing of the panel I found no ghosting in the applications that I listed above. However, after I did the initial testing and wrote the initial review, I have used many more applications which has led to different results. The 1900FP does indeed exhibit some ghosting, but only in certain games.

Since my initial review I have had the chance to play the following games: NOLF2 (I did a quick test initially of this game, but have since had time to really test it ;) ); Dungeon Siege; Freedom Force; Battlefield 1942. Dungeon Siege and BF1942 were no surprise. The game play on the panel was brilliant with no ghosting that I could see. However, in certain levels on NOLF2 and during all main character movement in Freedom Force there is definate ghosting! I was shocked that there was ghosting on both of these games as I played them. I have not seen ghosting in any other game but these two, which leads me to a few possible thoeries: 1) Neither game supports 1280x1024 resolution, which is native to the panel and the resolution I used in most of the other games that didn't exhibit ghosting 2) There is something about the textures or colors used in these games which cause ghosting in the panel. 3) I have had to switch back to an analog connection (I need to get a new DVI video card) and this could be the cause of the ghosting. 4) Some people have suggested that it is certain greys which cause the ghosting, but Unreal Tourn 2K3 has a lot of greys and contrasts and it looks spectacular with no ghosting so I don't know if I support this theory.

Althought the ghosting in NOLF2 and Freedom Force is a little annoying at times, it isn't bad at all. Both games are very playable and very enjoyable on this panel. I expect that there will be more games in the future that I will find exhibit some ghosting, but even when the ghosting is present it is minimal and the panel is still excellent. I do not change my full-hearted endorsement of this panel. The ghosting that I have found isn't bad, but I wanted to make sure that anyone reading this review is aware of everything that I have found about the Panel.

[/Update]

Picture Sharpness / Quality:

Tests: Everyday operating system; Photoshop; Internet Explorer; Illustrator; etc.

Winner Dell 1900FP

Again, both Panels were excellent. However, the 1900FP was definitely sharper, crisper, and overall produced a more quality picture. The applications really just came alive on the 1900FP with the DVI connection. I have to say that I have never seen my applications or operating system look so good! Everything was more rich and vibrant than the Planar. The Planar did an excellent job, and while I was testing the Planar (before I had received the 1900FP) I didn't think that the picture could get much better... until I got the 1900FP. The Planar is excellent, but the 1900FP is better.

Color Depth:

Tests: Everything listed above.

Winner: Dell 1900FP

Once again, the 1900FP was more vibrant. The colors looked truer to me in general. I looked at some high res photos, as well as normal the operating system GUI, and I though the color on the 1900FP was much sharper.

Brightness:

Tests: Everything listed above.

Winner: Planar 191M

Both panels were plenty bright. However, the Planar still had lot's of room to grow from what I felt was a comfortable brightness, however the 1900FP was just about maxed out in its settings. Both panels were very bright, and I have no complaints either way. However, if you were working in a very well lit environment (such as on a sunny day with a window at your back) the Planar has enough brightness to spare to allow you to wash out the picture some and make it easier to see, the Dell does not. Once again, let me state the both panels are as bright as I would ever use them, however the Planar has some room to spare, so I picked it as the winner.

Text Sharpness:

Tests: Operating System; Word; Internet Explorer; Agent Newsreader; Outlook Express

Winner: Planar 191M

First off, if you are using Windows XP, make sure to enable ClearType and then visit Microsoft's and use their ClearType tuning wizard. I found that this was absolutely imperative in getting the text to look really good on either monitor.

Overall, the Planar beat the 1900FP hands down. The 1900FP looks fine, however the best tuning using ClearType in Windows XP left the text looking great, but not excellent. I was only able to use one of the selections for ClearType text tuning, which was the least bold of the bunch. If I chose any of the other tuning types, the text would bleed a red haze during certain applications (such as Outlook Express.) It is sharp and easy to read, but not in the same league as the Planar. The Planar allowed me to use any of the available ClearType tuning text selections without a problem. The text on the Planar is overall sharper, bolder, and allows the user a little more freedom in choosing what they think looks best.

Aesthetics:

Winner: Dell 1900FP

I love the tiny silver bezel on the 1900FP. It just looks darn cool. I also perceive the 1900FP to be a little bigger (optical illusion only) than the 191M because of the smaller bezel. The 1900FP rocks! I should not however, that I had a friend over to check them both out and he liked the look of the Planar better and felt it looked bigger, so this is very much personal preference.

Overall Winner:

Dell 1900FP

I am going to personally keep the 1900FP and ship the Planar back to Dell. The only significant area that I feel the Planar beats the Dell in is displaying Text. As I stated above the Planar is definitely better. However, I am satisfied with the Dell's display of text and the other areas of the panel are more important to me. Overall the 1900FP's gaming experience is much better in my opinion (which is a very, very important factor to me) in addition to the overall picture and colors being better on the Dell.

I think that both Panels are great, and I was really surprised when I got the Dell that it was better than the Planar because I though the Planar rocked (and it does, just a little less than the Dell.) I don't think that you can go wrong with either panel. With the price being equal for both panels (which it is in my case) I would definitely take the Dell. However, if the Planar were significantly less expensive I would probably lean towards keeping it since it is a very nice panel.
 

Schnieds

Senior member
Jul 18, 2002
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Yes, the Dell 1900FP is a rebadged Samsung 191T. I haven't heard what panel the Planer is based off of. In fact, I think they might actually manufacter it themselves... Planar produces LCD's mainly for the business world (hospitals mostly) and it could be that they are making their own panels...
 

canadianpsycho

Diamond Member
May 23, 2001
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For the record, the Planar ain't none too shabby anyways ;)

I still love mine, and all I do is game with it. Only really noticeable ghosting I've seen is in CS. You get quite used to it quickly.

Nice review, btw :D
 

Schnieds

Senior member
Jul 18, 2002
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Originally posted by: canadianpsycho
For the record, the Planar ain't none too shabby anyways ;)

I still love mine, and all I do is game with it. Only really noticeable ghosting I've seen is in CS. You get quite used to it quickly.

Nice review, btw :D


Don't get me wrong, the Planar is an excellent Panel all around. In fact, had I never hooked up the 1900FP I would have been very happy with the Planar for a long time to come. It's just that in comparison, I like the 1900FP better, but that doesn't diminish the fact the the Planar rocks!

:)
 

you2

Diamond Member
Apr 2, 2002
6,553
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Just curious - how do you know the Dell 9000FP is the Samsung 191T ? WHen I asked Dell they couldn't (or wouldn't) tell me.

Also how do these two monitors compare to the Viewsonic VG-191. IT seems all three can be had for around 750....

thanks,
You2
 

loup garou

Lifer
Feb 17, 2000
35,132
1
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I got my 1900FP yesterday, and it is the best upgrade I have ever made to my PC. Beautiful, sharp, colorful, and I have a desk again! :) I've played GTA3, JK2, and The Thing with absolutely no ghosting. Half Life had a little bit (not that I really play HL that much anymore anyways, just wanted to test it out), but I'd consider the amount to be noticable only to nit-pickers. Unfortunately, one of my favorite current games, Mafia, does exhibit a bit of ghosting. :( It is definitely playable, and actually, I kind of like it (kind of like a motion blur ;)).
 

you2

Diamond Member
Apr 2, 2002
6,553
1,590
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Werk -- waht does your dell 1900FP say on the back ?

These are the comments from the one I received friday:

(Do you think I should exchange it for one with no-dead pixels ?)

So -- I picked up one of these (it came last night) and have a few questions:

1) Mine is stamped revision 000A made Sept 2002 (are all of them of similar date/revision) ?

2) Mine has two dead pixels in the lower right hand corner they are on top of each other forming a small line -- should i return it ? (I keep an xterm in that corner so it is noticeable -- but not that bad...)

3) Ghosting seems fairly bad when dragging mozilla or an xterm (i use white with black text -- oddly at work at I use black with white text - hum ... never noticed that before -- guess I'm weird).Find it hard to believe this thing is 25ms

The fonts look so so (mozilla font is a bit choppy). The colour (without adjustment) is white with a slight blue tint.

4) Is there a 'favorite' setting for contrast/brightness for text usage -- also for those that use XFree86 are there any special tricks?

--

Overall I'm ok with the lcd. It was $760 -- I think at full price I would definitely pass on the 19 and go with a mid-range 17 for $520-$540
 

Schnieds

Senior member
Jul 18, 2002
518
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You2,

I would try to rub out the pixels first and see if you can get them to come on, if not I would personally send it back for an exchange. It's almost no hassle for you, and two dead pixels in an area I was working all the time would bug me.

Did you test the ghosting after the panel first fired up? Give the panel some time to "warm up" and you will notice that the ghosting is almost non-existant. Ghosting is strange, after using the panel for a while now I find some very slight ghosting in some apps, and in others none at all. E.G. Unreal Tournament 2003, DOOM III, Jedi Knight 2, RTCW have NO GHOSTING... but NOLF2 has ghosting.... very weird. Also, make sure that you are using a DVI connection.

My 1900FP is rev. A00 August 2002.

Sorry I don't have any tuning advice for you on XFree86. But if you have a copy of XP make sure to use the ClearType tuning to get the text sharp and beautiful.

I personally use the following brightness and contrast settings: 80 / 50

Good luck with your panel, and make sure you take some time to adjust to using an LCD panel... they are different than a CRT.
 

RichieZ

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2000
6,549
37
91
Got mine a few days ago, pixel perfect.

Rev A00 Manufactured Oct 2002

Is it just me or does the monitor not swivel? I looked on the dell website and it says it does but I have to turn the whole base to swivel it. I can adjust the angle up and down, it was just a bit stiff at first
 

DeadLamb

Junior Member
Nov 3, 2002
2
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Originally posted by: RichieZZZZ
Is it just me or does the monitor not swivel?

yeah I wondered that with mine too.. being I keep it REALLY close to the edge of the desk and the idea of moving the whole thing did not seem like the best.. but really, their is a disk on the bottom and that stay planted on the desk and the base sort of swings on that..

so you can swing it back and forth ez and one thinks the whole base is moving (bad) but then if you go and try to pull it toward ya it will just stick and not slide at all (good!!)... After all, I drop my keyboard a ton and I don't think a lcd can "take that" as well so I was a bit paranoid about that..

as for the blur some mentioned.. my Dell 1900fp is rev a00 and build of Oct 2002.. main thing I have noticed it just a blurs on black.. so on simple big textures like say UT it can get off but for more detailed (as in less just a huge lump of black) games like say u2003 it seems fine..

Main tips is to crank the brightness up in the game and run 1280x1024 if you can.. the extra sharpness will make up for any little smear in black..

I know in BF1942 it is sort of cool to be able to read the names over the guys soooooooo ez from really far away and not just see the colors.. I'm really happy I bought it.. plus if one has a crt now, and a dual head card you get the best of both. heh


 

Kirsten

Member
Sep 26, 2000
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The Planar is better because DUUUUUDE, it doesn't have DELLLLLL written all over it!!!!
 

Schnieds

Senior member
Jul 18, 2002
518
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Actually the Dell has a 3 year warrenty, just like the Planar. Dell customer support is great and fast...

Personally, I would not choose the Planar over the Dell because of the "Dell" logo being on the bezel, the Planar has a "Planar" logo on the bezel and the bezel is twice as large as the 1900FP...
 

Eman1

Member
Sep 27, 2002
44
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0
Hi,

Thanks for the great review!! I'm trying to make my decision. I guess the Planar doesn't work for the 20% off at dell. Can someone answer a couple of questions for me?

Can the 1900fp swivel? I've heard conflicting review about this.
Does the Planar accept 2 video inputs? I've heard that the Samsung 191t can and can swith between systems with the touch of a button.

Any issues with the pixel size (.294)? That just seems large to me. Is it noticable compared to others with smaller size.

Thanks
 

Eman1

Member
Sep 27, 2002
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Humm, Interesting link to Planar. They claim a 15ms rise and 10ms fall response rate!! I'm not so sure I believe that. Both monitors do look nice.

 

Schnieds

Senior member
Jul 18, 2002
518
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0
KingOfComputer:

Planar's 3 year 2nd day replacement is definately the best out there, but in my opinion Dell's isn't much worse. Dell gives you the 3 year warrenty, the pay for shipping of the bad part back to them, and get you a new one ASAP. I don't think that they ship the new one 2nd day though, but personally a couple more days of shipping time for the replacement doesn't bother me.

The Planar 191M does have a thin bezel compared to their 1904Z (I think that's the right model #) model. However, compared to the Dell, it is about twice as thick. I personally think that the 1900FP is much better looking.

Eman1:

1900FP does not rotate to where you can use the screen as a vertical layout. It does support dual in, so you can switch between the analog and digital inputs with ease. I can't remember if the Planar supported that or not, you will have to check the 191M spec sheet.

Pixel size isn't an issue. LCD's are differnt than CRTs. The text is sharp and clear. However, I would recommend using a DVI connection with any LCD and if you have WinXP using clearType and tuning it at MS's site.

I would recommend the 1900FP. I have no complaints with this monitor. I liked it better than the Planar in most areas, and if the Dell is cheaper that makes it all the better. ;)
 

Eman1

Member
Sep 27, 2002
44
0
0
Ok, one more request for advice and I'll drop this. Maybe one of you with the monitor already can share your opinion.

I haven't really seen the Silver Samsung/Dell monitor in person. How much better does it look and is having the silver worth trying to get. My belief is that the silver is a little classier but that just may be in my mind. The reason I ask is here are my options:

Samsung 191T (comp USA or BEST BUY)
$799
Black only
It will swivel
Local

Dell 1900FP
$720
Silver
Fixed position
Mail order

For $80 cheaper I get the slick silver color and any problems I get to ship it back to Dell and they pay the shipping. However, it will not swivel and it has the DELL name on it.

Locally, for $80 more I can get the Samsung monitor and have the full swivel capability. In addition, within the first 30 days, I can return it to the local store if I have any problems. On the other hand, if I have any problems after that, I'll pay shipping to Samsung. In addition, the black is not as nice looking as the silver.

After all the pros and cons I'm left with the real issues of color vs swivel vs cost. Color may not even be an issue and that is what I'm trying to determine. Wish I could see one locally.

Thanks
Eman

PS. I use my computer mainly for work (swivel might be useful) and do little gaming.
I'm sure I'm making too much of this.
 

XMan

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
12,513
49
91
Originally posted by: Eman1
Humm, Interesting link to Planar. They claim a 15ms rise and 10ms fall response rate!! I'm not so sure I believe that. Both monitors do look nice.

Believe it - you add the rise and fall together for the total ms rating.
 

Kingofcomputer

Diamond Member
Apr 6, 2000
4,917
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0
You can believe it but all manufacturers state it as "typical" 25ms response time, not a guarantee response time, it could be faster or slower depends on how the display changes, just an average number for average applications.

Oh yes, Samsung's bezel looks thinner than Planar's.
Don't forget that Samsung uses own PVA panel, Planar's seems to be TN+ or IPS.
 

T2T III

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
12,899
1
0
Thanks for the review. I have the Planar 191M and decided to keep it. I sold my sealed 1900FP which I was also going to try out and then decide which one to keep. I needed the extra USB hub, so the Planar was the deciding factor for me. Additionally, I do a lot of text work, so it looks like my decision to keep the Planar was a good one. :)
 

loup garou

Lifer
Feb 17, 2000
35,132
1
81
Originally posted by: you2
Werk -- waht does your dell 1900FP say on the back ?

These are the comments from the one I received friday:

(Do you think I should exchange it for one with no-dead pixels ?)

So -- I picked up one of these (it came last night) and have a few questions:

1) Mine is stamped revision 000A made Sept 2002 (are all of them of similar date/revision) ?

2) Mine has two dead pixels in the lower right hand corner they are on top of each other forming a small line -- should i return it ? (I keep an xterm in that corner so it is noticeable -- but not that bad...)

3) Ghosting seems fairly bad when dragging mozilla or an xterm (i use white with black text -- oddly at work at I use black with white text - hum ... never noticed that before -- guess I'm weird).Find it hard to believe this thing is 25ms

The fonts look so so (mozilla font is a bit choppy). The colour (without adjustment) is white with a slight blue tint.

4) Is there a 'favorite' setting for contrast/brightness for text usage -- also for those that use XFree86 are there any special tricks?

--

Overall I'm ok with the lcd. It was $760 -- I think at full price I would definitely pass on the 19 and go with a mid-range 17 for $520-$540
Sorry I didn't reply sooner, I don't wander into the Video forum too often. :)

Anyways, to answer (some of) your questions:

1)Mine is the same revision and date.
2)As mentioned, try rubbing gently to see if they fix themselves. I was surprised that mine didn't have any dead pixels...I was wary of such a fragile piece of hardware being shipped UPS (hey, I didn't think I'd get it in one piece ;)). If they don't come out, call Dell and see if you can exchange it (I don't know if they'll cover your shipping though).
3)Hmm...I don't notice any ghosting when dragging windows. My fonts seem fine (XP with Cleartype, though). My whites definitely don't have a blue tint. Try changing the color temperature.
4)I'm using a DVI connection, so I haven't adjusted anything. Seems perfect from the getgo.