Updated: Handguns revisited, need opinions

[BoberFett]

OK, I've narrowed my selection down to 3 models:

Beretta 92FS, $530

Glock 17, $550

HK USP, $650

They're all 9mm. I've been over to the local shop and played with all of them. I also checked out a Sig P226, but it's out of my price range, coming in at over $800. I'd also have to take into consideration the cost of a .22lr conversion, so I don't have to burn expensive rounds all the time.

There's two things I noticed about the Beretta that I didn't like. One is that it's the heaviest of the three by far, which isn't such a problem, but I'd like my wife to be able to handle it also. The other is the mag release, it's kind of awkward to press. I can't hit it with my firing hand thumb easily like I can with the other two. Pluses are that the weight is pretty well balanced and I've heard it's much more forgiving as far as ammo goes. The salesman told me that the HK and Glock don't like non-jacketed rounds very well. Is this true? I also know for a fact that .22lr conversion kits are easy to find for this gun.

The thing I didn't like about the Glock was the lack of a safety. That would unnerve me a bit, I think, and the fact that it's a hidden hammer. I just don't know about that, and the fact that there's no de-cocking lever. I've read good things about Glocks, but the design just doesn't sit real well with me. I do know there's a .22lr conversion for Glocks available.

This was the first time I'd looked at an HK, but it seemed like a really nice piece. It fit pretty well and had a safety. Does anyone know of a .22lr conversion for this gun? The things against this gun are the price, being $100+ more than the other two, and what I said above about requiring jacketed ammo due to the non-standard rifling.

I'm sort of leaning toward the Beretta, and just want any other input that you guys might have.

Thanks
Chris

 

[Windogg]

I like the Glock personally but have you considered a Smith and Wesson?

Windogg

 

[DirkBelig]

You MUST be comfortable with your weapon!!! What's $100 for your safety and security?!?

Have you looked into any S&W guns? I have a older S&W 915 that was only $300 used (barely). I would've gone for a Glock if it weren't for the no hammer/no safety issue. I prefer the belt and suspenders approach of a DA/SA trigger with a hammer-dropping, pin-blocking safety.

It's been a while since I've shopped for guns, but of your three, the HK looks good, if the Beretta doesn't fully suit ya.

 

[BoberFett]

Windogg

S&W? I could just as easily sell my soul to the devil.

Dirk

This will be pretty much for range shooting. If I want a home defense weapon I'll get a shotgun. So the mag issue is pretty minor. Once I typed this out though, I realized I had already talked myself out of the Glock. So it's pretty much between the Beretta and HK.

 

[Daniel]

berretta 92 series is nice, they made a few clones too, been out of the scene for awhile though
so I'm not sure who did. HK makes a fantastic gun, if it's between those two see if you can test
fire either of them, you really won't go wrong either way though.

 

[Preyhunter]

Maybe you should educate yourself more on these guns before making a decision. You will find that the Glock is one of the safest guns made. Just because it looks different than what you're used to seeing doesn't mean it's not as good or less reliable, etc. I know Russ will disagree and say go with the Beretta, but the Beretta is less reliable if you ever find yourself in a situation with an aggressor within arm's reach of your pistol. I know that you say this will only be a range gun, but if you wake up in the middle of the night with an intruder in the hous and the pistol is closer than the shotgun, are you going to pass up the pistol when seconds count? As far as your wife having an easier time handling the pistol, the Glock is by far the easiest one to use. Point and squeeze, that's it. Your finger shouldn't be on the trigger unless you intend to fire. A Glock is only as unsafe as the shooter. This is not to say that I recommend the Glock over the others, just a statement that maybe you should familiarize yourself with it a bit more. I do know that the Beretta would be my last choice.

 

[CrumCake]

Let me quote Gun Tests Mag, which excepts no advertisement so it's their personal opinion.
"Bottom line: The Glock 17 handled well and was fairly accurate. Although it's magazines could have been alittle more user friendly, this 9mm pistol merits our stamp of approval."
"Bottom line: The usp's switchable operating controls and mounting groves give you plenty of options and the design is generally user friendly. We'll buy this one."
I do believe Russ can fill you in on the Beretta which he loves so very much. As for ammo, pickup a Shotgun News and see about picking up some ammo in bulk.
If you want i can make some copies of the full reveiws and mail them to you if you want for the glock and the h&k.

I went today and put a niceTaurus in layaway. It got great reveiws from gun tests mag for being a concealed carry piece. I really wanted the H&K usp45, but the wife wants new glasses, so i went for something smaller and less expensive till after christmas.

 

[Ronstang]

Bober,

What are you purchasing this gun for? If it is for self defense?

I don't like the Beretta, it's too heavy and it does not shoot as well as the others. The way the spent cartridge ejects induces more torque into guns recoil than I like. I personally don't find them as accurate as they should be, but that could just be me. I am more accurate with a Colt Model 1911 .45, if you can believe that.

The HK is a nice weapon but to pricey and overengineered like most German items. The extra cost is most likey not justified unless Brand name recognition is important to you. Every HK weapon of any type I have ever shot was extremely accurate though.

I guess you can see where this is going. The Glock is the all around best handgun of the group. It is light, shoots well, is accurate with practice, holds a large number of rounds, and parts and accesories are easy to come by. The lack of a safety should not concern you. It is accualy a blessing. This gun was designed for law enforecement where the time it takes to take off a safety can get you killed. There is a passive safety built into the trigger though that prevents the trigger from being depressed if it becomes snagged etc. The lack of a hammer is also a blessing. If the gun is dropped on its back there is no hammer to strike which will make most pistols go off if it is in the decocked position. A person also cannot get there finger between the hammer and firing pin in case of a struggle. A loaded Glock can be thrown quite hard without fear of a misfire.

If the lack of a safety concerns you then never keep a round in the chamber. All my friends who carry them do so in this manner. It is a natural motion to cock the slide as you raise the weapon, in the case of an emergency situation. It can be accomplished a lot faster than taking a safety off on most weapons. I have several friends who are collectors\competition shooters and all recomend the Colt .45 for most things but if a 9 mm is specified they all choose the Glock.

Good luck and happy shooting

 

[Moonbeam]

How about a colt 9mm Combat Commander? It's got a great sounding name.

 

[BoberFett]

This won't be for protection, just range shooting. I've always enjoyed firing guns and have had a lot of experience with rifles. I started shooting .22s when I was just a youngster, and I'm Army qualified expert with an M16. I'm no stranger to firearms, I'm just not very familiar with handguns.

I had my wife hold several, and the one she actually preferred was the Sig P226. It did have a nice feel to it, but not that much better than the others that I'd spend the extra on it. Maybe if I start a collection of handguns, a Sig will work it's way in there.

Thanks a lot for the replies, keep them coming.

Edit: I think Moonbeam is probably the most knowledgable person around when it comes to guns, so I'll think I'll go with the Combat Commander.

 

[Windogg]

Hmmm... if S&W is out of the question, then I would go with the Glock. My hands are a little smaller (DAMN MY ANOREXIC FRAME!!!) so I prefer the Glock 19. While there is no safety, Glock has a dual action trigger that does quite well as a safety. While you are going to use it for sport, those using it for personal protection like the ability to get off a quick shot without playing with safeties.

 

[Ronstang]

My preference is the Colt also but that was not in your list of choices.

If you are just going to range shoot and plink around and you are interested in a .22 conversion why not just get a nice .22 pistol in the first place?

 

[CrumCake]

I have been out on the range with a friend of twice this month so far to help him unload some of his hoards of ammo. He has a sig 226 and i just loved it. It shot really nice groups for the little bit of a shake that i have. Also he has a Para Ordnance P14.45, which is based on the 1911 frame, but has a fatter grip because of it's 14 round clip's. It was also sweet to shoot and it felt really nice in my hands. As i said before, the usp45 is next on my list after christmas, you get what you pay for, and h&k's arent cheap $$$ wise, but your money would be well spent if you purchased the usp9.

 

[RGN]

Get the USP, they work forever. There might be relability problems with the Beretta after 10,000+ rounds.

 

[CrumCake]

Boberfett is gonna have one hell of a sore hand if he goes through 10,000 rounds on the range.

 

[DABANSHEE]

I'd go for a Stechkin, as it has a 20+1 magazine capacity & selective fire

Or a Gyurza / Vector SR-1 as it will blast through 30 layers of Kevlar & nearly 3mm of titanium plate from a distance of 100m, 18 times without re-loading. It'd make a great 'cop killer' to use Hollywood parlance.

What would be especially handy would for those discreet occasions would be the Soviet PSS. Which were specially designed for the KGB & fire special silent 'closed circut' ammo, where the expanding gases push a piston that gives the bullet its momentum, as such no gases are discharged out of the barrel, so therfore they are much silent than even silencer equiped handguns. However they only have a kill range of 20m (nearly 70 feet), but then if you're going to shoot someone with a handgun you'll get closer than 20m anyway.

The website that I got all the above links from recommend the Czech CZ-75. Aparently the Israeli Jericho 941, which is sold in the US by Magnum Research as the 'Baby Eagle' is based on the CZ-75.

This little Browning would do the trick for me, I've always wanted one of those

 

[Wangel]

Glock all the way.

 

[BeHeMOTH]

Well I'm going to tell you to go with H&K I was like you when it came to getting a gun. I didn't want to spend over 500 for a .40 CAL and all my friends have GLOCKS so I wanted one too untill I saw that HK USP tried it and bought it, it felt great. Oh I spent more for it but I think it was well worth it in the long run. Now my trusty glock brothern are buying HK's.

 

[64bitloopy]

The HK USP is the best choice. Although, at first it looks very akward and slightly oversized, it is a very balanced and well made pistol. It is one of the most dependable pistols made, and HK is well known for it's quality.

I have a USP 40 that I have fired well over 25000 rounds through, without nary a problem.

 

[Moonbeam]

BoberFett, you'll have to get your own Commander, though, not mine. You can easily tell if the safety is on and whether it's cocked. Looking down the barrel to see if there's one in the chamber is a fun reminder of what suicide must be like though.

 

[Tominator]

Moonbeam Why do you continue to play the part of the IDIOT! Is it a typical Liberal wish for harm to come to those you do not agree with. Your post answered THAT question!



BoberFett
Before buying the Baretta 92, look at the various models of the Taurus PT92 series. Lifetime warranty. Accurizing service. They have several finishes and features that the Baretta does not have. Cheaper as well.

The butt of all the doublestack guns are quite large. If your wife will learn to shoot and you do not want to turn her off because of an ill fitting gun, I'd pick none of the above.

The Glock has the smallest, but it is for Professionals! You are correct in assuming the lack of a manual safety could be a problem. If you and your wife will dedicate yourselves to taking a safety course from a Certified NRA Instructor and REALLY learning the weapon, get the Glock.

Most 9mms don't care for cast bullets. Jacketed are so cheap these days, I'd not worry about it.

.22 conversions tend to be expensive and you are much better off just buying another gun.

 

[BoberFett]

Hmmm, for someone who's supposed to be intelligent, sometimes I'm pretty daft.

I think I may go for 2 guns. Get a cheap .22 semi-auto for shooting cans and paper, and just save the 9mm for when I want to act macho in front of the guys.

Though I still haven't decided which one to get. I guess I'll just have to get them all eventually. Actually I did just today find out about a place down near Minneapolis that has an indoor range and rents guns. I should go there before deciding.

Thanks everyone for your advice.
Chris

 

[Sephiroth_IX]

H&K all the way, spend the money for the better piece.

 

[Moonbeam]

Torminator, The part I play best is that of a mirror, but that aside, you have, I think totally misconstrued my post. I was in the first place addressing Bober's concern with the safety, hammer, etc. and my own viseral reaction to looking down the barrel of MY Commander to make sure there's light and not a round inside before I store it. You could give people some benefit of the doubt before calling them an idiot, although in this case, even if for different reasons, you happen to be right. I can assure you, there was zero there in the way of hostility to Bober. He's one of my favorites.

 

[CrumCake]

As per guntests mag, This .22lr semi auto was there choice when they reveiwed 3 different models. It's not the most accurate pistol ever made, but something good for plinking.

This one, and this here are the models Tominator's talking about.