Updated: Formula 1 all seasons thread!

[_Rick_]

So, apparently if the championship leader slows ahead of you, it's fine to run into the back of him?

And you beed to give a position back twice to then still get a penalty?

This was a farce of a race....

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[Zim Hosein]

Saudi Arabian Grand Prix Race Results:

P1. Hamilton
P2. Verstappen
P3. Bottas
P4. Ocon
P5. Ricciardo

All I can say about today's race is WTF happened? Safety car, red flags, VSC's, Hamilton runs into the back of a slow moving Verstappen... Right now Verstappen is being summonded to the stewards for an incident during the race, but I don't know for which one. Bottas taking the podium away from Ocon at the last second was just like he did to Stroll in Baku a few years back. At the end of the day, Hamilton on the hards vs. Verstappen on the mediums, Hamilton would have taken the win as long as he kept it on the track. The championship is tied w/ Verstappen technically in the lead because he has more race wins, we'll see who comes out on top next week in Abu Dhabi!

 

[Ajay]

I thought this was going to be a great race. Turns out, it was a damn disaster. I'd be fine if F1 NEVER came back to this track again. I thought having a tight championship battle would be fun, turns out I was wrong. Hamilton and Verstappen are playing games with each other to gain whatever edge they can. This is like a repeat of 2016 when I first discovered that F1 was on ESPN - Hamilton and Rosberg fought tooth and nail. Oh, and the livestream cut out with two laps to go .

I just hope Abu Dhabi is a clean race - no matter who wins.

 

[zinfamous]

yeah don't know what Hamilton was thinking running into Max like that; and Max pushing him off on the overtake. Getting nasty. But still...what a gross race and gross track.

I started to chuckle a bit when Vettel's Aston Martin started falling apart and was wondering if Race Control has the power to tell a driver/team to pull a car off the track because they are creating a hazard? I was astonished that he kept driving for several laps when he was still shedding parts.

So many virtual safety cars. so ridiculous. I do hope they never go to that track again. But damn, all tied up now!

 

[_Rick_]

10 seconds for Verstappen for trying to let Lewis past, by suddendly braking after slowing down significantly, as they neared the end of the straight. And Lewis successfully claiming, he didn't know, that Max was letting him past?

I'm feeling sick. If that kind of tactic from Mercedes wins Lewis the championship, I'm not sure if I can take it....

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[Zim Hosein]

10 seconds for Verstappen for trying to let Lewis past, by suddendly braking after slowing down significantly, as they neared the end of the straight. And Lewis successfully claiming, he didn't know, that Max was letting him past?

I'm feeling sick. If that kind of tactic from Mercedes wins Lewis the championship, I'm not sure if I can take it....

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Verstappen handed further 10-second penalty for Lap 37 collision with Hamilton in Saudi Arabian GP.

"In deciding to penalise the driver of Car 33, the key point for the Stewards was that the driver of car 33 then braked suddenly (69 bar) and significantly, resulting in 2.4g deceleration."

Telemetry does not lie, besides why would Hamilton intentionally run into the back of Verstappen's car and ruin his shot at the title?

 

[Ajay]

Verstappen handed further 10-second penalty for Lap 37 collision with Hamilton in Saudi Arabian GP.

Telemetry does not lie, besides why would Hamilton intentionally run into the back of Verstappen's car and ruin his shot at the title?

Geez, Max must have been very frustrated about giving the spot back AND thus giving Lewis DRS at the same time. Looks like Mercedes didn’t tell Lewis Max was giving up the spot. What a mess.

 

[zinfamous]

Geez, Max must have been very frustrated about giving the spot back AND thus giving Lewis DRS at the same time. Looks like Mercedes didn’t tell Lewis Max was giving up the spot. What a mess.

As I was watching it live, they were playing Hamilton's radio and he was getting the call that Max was letting him pass, just as the accident happened. So, I'm not sure if that was all perfectly in sync with the broadcast (I don't think they always are?) and even if it was, Hamilton really had little to no time to react to the info and make a move around?

Still, he was pretty much on Max's ass just as he got the news that he was getting a pass. So, no one was really maneuvering properly to make the pass. Bang bang play I guess. But, with the data posted above, I'm now more inclined to agree and put that on Max. I thought it was all Lewis all the way until now.

 

[_Rick_]

Prior ti braking hard, he goes down the gears gently, is off the gas. Lewis doesn't pass him, but slots in behind.
Then Max gets more urgebt on the btakes, because he is losing time to the field, and wants to get this over with at a apot of his chosing.
There is no reason beside tactics for Lewis to slow behind Max - which aren't opportune here - hence the accident.
I dob't get the decision. Lewis should have haf to pass, there was no teason for him to slow down behind Max.

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[zebrax2]

Both were playing the tactics game. From the ruling

Verstappen

At Turn 21 the driver of car 33 [Verstappen] was given the instruction to give back a position to car 44 [Hamilton] and was told by the team to do so 'strategically'. Car 33 slowed significantly at Turn 26.

Lewis

Whilst accepting that the driver of Car 44 could have overtaken Car 33 when that car first slowed, we understand why he (and the driver of Car 33) did not wish to be the first to cross the DRS [line]. However, the sudden braking by the driver of Car 33 was determined by the Stewards to be erratic and hence the predominant cause of the collision and hence the standard penalty of 10 seconds for this type of incident, is imposed.

At the end of the day though the it was Verstappens "brake check" that caused the collision as stated above.

Edit:
Another issue leading to the collision is that FIA decided to contact the Red Bull first instead of contacting Mercedes first. If it was the other way around we wouldn't have a situation where a team informing their driver about the position swap while the other was already slowing down for it.

 

[Ajay]

Prior ti braking hard, he goes down the gears gently, is off the gas. Lewis doesn't pass him, but slots in behind.
Then Max gets more urgebt on the btakes, because he is losing time to the field, and wants to get this over with at a apot of his chosing.
There is no reason beside tactics for Lewis to slow behind Max - which aren't opportune here - hence the accident.
I dob't get the decision. Lewis should have haf to pass, there was no teason for him to slow down behind Max.

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True, Lewis wanted to pass under DRS. Why he hung <that> close is a bit of a mystery to me.

 

[Zim Hosein]

Abu Dhabi Qualifying Results:

P1. Verstappen
P2. Hamilton
P3. Norris
P4. Perez
P5. Sainz

That tow from Perez was quite strong as Hamilton had a great last lap and still couldn't top it! The start won't be as important tomorrow since Hamilton says at least he can see Verstappen , the championship is going to come down to tyre strategy, can't wait!

 

[Ajay]

Abu Dhabi Qualifying Results:

P1. Verstappen
P2. Hamilton
P3. Norris
P4. Perez
P5. Sainz

That tow from Perez was quite strong as Hamilton had a great last lap and still couldn't top it! The start won't be as important tomorrow since Hamilton says at least he can see Verstappen , the championship is going to come down to tyre strategy, can't wait!

RB came on real strong starting in Q2. They will definitely do well on the reds. Be question, as you point out, will be tire strat (well, assuming no nutso stuff happening like the last race). If it's a single pit race, Merc has the advantage of putting the hard compound on later and having better traction in the final laps. It sure is going to be a nail biter!! This is so much more fun than having Hamilton miles ahead of everyone else on points.

 

[Bubbleawsome]

Jesus H. Christ

 

[Zim Hosein]

Abu Dhabi Race Results:

P1. Verstappen
P2. Hamilton
P3. Sainz
P4. Tsunoda
P5. Gasly

What did I just watch? The incident on the first lap was called wrong in my opinion but w/ Hamilton's race pace there was no stopping him, that is unless you negate his advantage by removing the back markers and restart the race w/ Verstappen on new tyres w/ one lap to go... that is some kinda luck! Congrats to Verstappen for being F1 World Champion & Mercedes winning their 8th consecutive Constructors Title.

 

[repoman0]

Fake race.

 

[_Rick_]

There are lucky breaks all the time. Imola, Silverstone went Lewis way, this one Max's.

Not stopping lost Lewis the championship.
Having the faster car and not stopping when you habe the opportunity? That's careless.
The could have been on the softs over Max's hards - but they were hoping to cruise to the line. That's not how you should win.

They defined Max's strategy - and they lost.

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[zinfamous]

Well, that was nuts. That lap one call was wrong but I agree it probably mattered little in the end. Checo's drive was amazing. Great stuff.

At the end, it looks like neither team had any idea what the last two laps would be like, and the stewards decided to make it possible to race...I mean, only informing 5 cars to go through on the final lap is a bit ...off, being that it negates the previous announcement. But both teams were pretty much ignorant going in live, and Red Bull's decision to get fresh tires is what mattered. If they pitted Lewis, then they're both even at the end anyway, with the same chance.

Crazy. I like how the season ended. Seems fitting in some way, despite two strange calls/lack-of-calls from race control

 

[Ajay]

There are lucky breaks all the time. Imola, Silverstone went Lewis way, this one Max's.

Not stopping lost Lewis the championship.
Having the faster car and not stopping when you habe the opportunity? That's careless.
The could have been on the softs over Max's hards - but they were hoping to cruise to the line. That's not how you should win.

They defined Max's strategy - and they lost.

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Yeah, I was a bit confused over Merc's strategy. With the pace advantage they had I couldn’t figure out why they didn’t pit Lewis. They seemed unduly concerned about track position, especially when Lewis' lap times were around a 1/4 second faster than Max's. Tough break nonetheless. I don’t look forward to this call being rehashed over and over again over the next month on the F1 news channels I follow.

Great season though. Maybe next year Ferrari will up their game enough to get into the mix and pull of some wins, or at least more podiums.

Congrats the Max, Red Bull and Honda - their hard work really paid off this year!

 

[zebrax2]

Congrats to Max for winning the WDC but what a s___ show that was. The race director at the very least needs to be replaced. The sport cannot have any integrity when the rules of the sport are at the mercy of the minute to minute whims of the race director/stewards.

 

[zinfamous]

Man, the more I watch it, the more I love that lap. I watch as Sir Hamilton and Max start sidling up as they realize what is happening, just before we get the announcement, and start getting their tires set as best they can. I think they were both, sorta, fine with it.

I feel like Lewis just gave him the nod and they were like, well, here we fucking go I guess?

I don't think they hate each other. I think they both kinda loved being in that spot.

Lewis can always complain about the rough tires, and he will be right to do so, and no one will blame him. And, in the same breath, he can tell anyone that will listen that he just told Max to pull it and whatever happens, happens, and really doesn't care how it ended. Because it was a pretty great split for the year.

I dunno. I get that we suddenly have a rule and a "method of making entertainment happen for sake of investigating rule at a later time" claim that needs to be made about what made that last lap happen (it really does seem like Hoerner's little nudge nudge wink complaint about clearing out the lapped cars during safety lap 56 made that, you know, sudden switch in safety lap 57.5 to clear them then the pull the safety car is a bit of a thing.); but man. It seems there is justice, sorta.

Because yes, the first lap gift was a bit of a joke, even though Merc had all that pace...but imagine, give Max another 15 laps on that lead after lap 1 (seriously not sure he would have kept it that early in the race), maybe that no investigation because "allowed back the time advantage" argument did change how Lewis was driving for much of the race, having to push Max. Anyway, hard to say, but at least in one race, two drivers took advantage of strange rulings, out of each one's control, really, so there it is. Who can fricking complain about that? pfffft

 

[manly]

Yeah, I was a bit confused over Merc's strategy. With the pace advantage they had I couldn’t figure out why they didn’t pit Lewis. They seemed unduly concerned about track position, especially when Lewis' lap times were around a 1/4 second faster than Max's. Tough break nonetheless. I don’t look forward to this call being rehashed over and over again over the next month on the F1 news channels I follow.

Great season though. Maybe next year Ferrari will up their game enough to get into the mix and pull of some wins, or at least more podiums.

Congrats the Max, Red Bull and Honda - their hard work really paid off this year!

I'm just a casual fan, so I don't really grok this stuff. Let's say Merc knows they have to get onto fresh tires for the final lap, so they pit. OTOH Verstappen stays out there to take over the lead. Do we have an idea what the track position would be like? Do they still unlap a bunch of cars and let Max and Lewis go #1 and #2? Would Max have much chance on his tires vs. Lewis on fresh ones?

Masi made a decision he felt was better for the sport/drama, but with the rubber situation we can understand why Mercedes is so upset. According to ESPN reporting, Hamilton stood almost no chance on his old tires once the race restarted. It's kinda striking how easily the final pass came when Max did it, but credit to Lewis for actually trying to get it back. Merc is upset not that there was a 1 lap race-off, but that the deck was stacked hard against them. Whether Masi understood how much he was tipping the scales is unknowable.

Hamilton seems like a very stand-up guy and hopefully these two put up a repeat of this duel next season. I feel some of the hard feelings are natural considering Hamilton considers Max a dangerous driver. Their several collisions during the season aside, I was actually semi amazed how many other times Hamilton avoided getting wrecked by Max.

 

[_Rick_]

Recovering Latifi's car was never going to be a major issue. Mercedes were betting that Masi would play it extra safe, after they previously requested he should not.
In the end, Masi wanted a race, and Mercedes didn't - or they would habe strategized accordingly. They could have made the assumption that a race was going to happen, and even during the VSC they could have pitted for a fresher tire. Staying out and hoping that there wouldn't be a restart, for a sub- 10 minute recovery job was a cynical move, and they were punished for it.

Was it safely predictable, that racing would resume? Nope. But they weren't fast enough to have that pit stop in hand, so they have to gamble like the rest of the plebs in the race.

They were punished for wanting to be gifted the win through a neutralized race.

The real controversy, was that a recovery vehicle was allowed on track, without a red flag. After the Bianchi tragedy, I didn't expect that to happen again. That should have been the angle for Toto to push for. Another tactical mistake - making it about safety, not perceived benefit would have put Masi in a tight spot, when defending his race control choices.

So, plenty of ways for Toto to get the driver's title for Lewis - none of which he tried to make work. Fairly punished for trying to get a free ride.

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[zebrax2]

From what I gather the reasons Mercedes not to pit was the following
1. If the race finished under the safety car , assuming article 48.12 of FIA sporting regulations was followed, they would have won by staying out.
2. If Max was not allowed to unlap they most probably win since he has to overtake 4 cars within 1 or 2 laps

You cannot fault Mercedes for choosing that strategy it was simply the safest one.

As for why they choose those protest, you have to remember Mercedes needs a scenario wherein they win the race. That's why they've chosen a protest that would give Max a 5 sec penalty and a protest that basically says that the race would have ended under the safety car if the regulations were followed. Having the race thrown out would mean a draw in WDC points which in these scenario would mean a Red Bull win.

The race director and stewards f____d this race. If they wanted a thrilling race they should made hamilton give the position up, more wheel to wheel battle, and they should have red flagged the end of the race. What we ended up is a final lap that might look exiting since there was an overtake but it was almost a forgone conclusion with regards to their tires (40 lap old hard vs brand new soft).

 

[_Rick_]

So, the new cars are coming out from under the wraps, the first shakedowns are being run - and everyone is rightfully annoyed, that they won't be able to see them put in their first laps at pace.
On the up side though, it looks like the cars are on a wider spectrum at the start of the season, than at the end of last season.
I'm wondering what the big three are going to deliver to the test sessions.