Updated: Formula 1 all seasons thread!

[Ajay]

Italian GP cancelled due to flooding. Boohoo. Always looking forward to the racing at Imola - satisfies my inner speed freak.

 

[NutBucket]

Risk of death makes everything more interesting

 

[Ajay]

Well Monaco was, Monaco. No red flags or safety car - so kinda boring.

For this week, we had the Barcelona GP. Fast track - lots of action from probably p15 to p2. Then there was Max :-\ Ferrari are apparently lost in space. Merc could be back in this with a 2-3 finish, at least on fast tracks. We shall see.

1	1	Max Verstappen	Red Bull Racing Honda RBPT	66	1:27:57.940	26
2	44	Lewis Hamilton	Mercedes	66	+24.090s	18
3	63	George Russell	Mercedes	66	+32.389s	15
4	11	Sergio Perez	Red Bull Racing Honda RBPT	66	+35.812s	12
5	55	Carlos Sainz	Ferrari	66	+45.698s	10
6	18	Lance Stroll	Aston Martin Aramco Mercedes	66	+63.320s	8
7	14	Fernando Alonso	Aston Martin Aramco Mercedes	66	+64.127s	6
8	31	Esteban Ocon	Alpine Renault	66	+69.242s	4
9	24	Zhou Guanyu	Alfa Romeo Ferrari	66	+71.878s	2
10	10	Pierre Gasly	Alpine Renault	66	+73.530s	1

 

[ElFenix]

 

[Ajay]

POS	NO	DRIVER	CAR	LAPS	TIME/RETIRED	PTS
1	1	Max Verstappen	RED BULL RACING HONDA RBPT	70	1:33:58.348	25
2	14	Fernando Alonso	ASTON MARTIN ARAMCO MERCEDES	70	+9.570s	18
3	44	Lewis Hamilton	MERCEDES	70	+14.168s	15
4	16	Charles Leclerc	FERRARI	70	+18.648s	12
5	55	Carlos Sainz	FERRARI	70	+21.540s	10
6	11	Sergio Perez	RED BULL RACING HONDA RBPT	70	+51.028s	9
7	23	Alexander Albon	WILLIAMS MERCEDES	70	+60.813s	6
8	31	Esteban Ocon	ALPINE RENAULT	70	+61.692s	4
9	18	Lance Stroll	ASTON MARTIN ARAMCO MERCEDES	70	+64.402s	2
10	77	Valtteri Bottas	ALFA ROMEO FERRARI	70	+64.432s	1

Max is in another league. Reminds me of when Hamilton was untouchable with 10-12 seconds up front of the field. Mercedes is looking better, except for Russel's shunt intot he wall. Their upgrades are working. Perez is having difficulties in an, obviously, super fast car. He's got to get his confidence back - he's not the best in qualifying, but his race pace has been good till the past three races. Ferrari is still, well Ferrari - they are having so many problems it's not even funny. Not a bad race if one focused on the midfield - too many DRS trains though.

 

[_Rick_]

The Perez choke in quali is destroying him.
Interesting to see that McLaren might be back in the race, and challenging even Ferrari now.
Probably not in Hungary though.

In the Mercedes glory days, usually the number two driver was right up there, which makes Max' display take me back to Vettel's 2013 dominance, where the other car was nowhere to be seen.

Also, Aston Martin, what happened? If you want to stay ahead of McLaren and Mercedes, you need to give that car a bit more speed.
Having Lance in the car, while it was clearly second fastest cost them so much of that early advantage

 

[Ajay]

The Perez choke in quali is destroying him.
Interesting to see that McLaren might be back in the race, and challenging even Ferrari now.
Probably not in Hungary though.

In the Mercedes glory days, usually the number two driver was right up there, which makes Max' display take me back to Vettel's 2013 dominance, where the other car was nowhere to be seen.

Also, Aston Martin, what happened? If you want to stay ahead of McLaren and Mercedes, you need to give that car a bit more speed.
Having Lance in the car, while it was clearly second fastest cost them so much of that early advantage

Yep, Perez has blown two qualifying sessions now. Not good, having a rough time which looks even worse when Max is curb stomping the field in the same car. Definitely like the Vettel/RB v8 run. Damn those engines sounded soooo much better.

Upgrade season is shuffling around the pecking order a bit right now - also there's track to track variations for most teams (better on straights, not corners - better on fast corners, worse on slow corners, etc.). Only RB has a balanced enough car to handle all tracks well right now. Newey was right to focus on the suspension this year - tire wear is excellent. I would really like to see Merc, Ferrari, McLaren and Aston Martin closer to each other, and closer to RB - but that may not really materialize till next year.

Then all the cards get thrown into the air for 2026, and we get to see where they land - hope the new hybrid system doesn't have terrible drivability.

 

[zinfamous]

Yep, Perez has blown two qualifying sessions now. Not good, having a rough time which looks even worse when Max is curb stomping the field in the same car. Definitely like the Vettel/RB v8 run. Damn those engines sounded soooo much better.

Upgrade season is shuffling around the pecking order a bit right now - also there's track to track variations for most teams (better on straights, not corners - better on fast corners, worse on slow corners, etc.). Only RB has a balanced enough car to handle all tracks well right now. Newey was right to focus on the suspension this year - tire wear is excellent. I would really like to see Merc, Ferrari, McLaren and Aston Martin closer to each other, and closer to RB - but that may not really materialize till next year.

Then all the cards get thrown into the air for 2026, and we get to see where they land - hope the new hybrid system doesn't have terrible drivability.

Oh, 5 sessions, lol. No matter how you look at it, he hasn't made Q3 in 5 straight weekends, and he should be at P2, 3 at the very least in every race. There are no more reasons for him not to be, really.

He's been pretty damn good in those races, most things considering and some really really well, tbh, but qualifying has completely ended him. I feel like his head is fucked about it.

I also don't know how Aston has seemed to let the air out so quickly. Not like they're out of 2nd, just....not staying there like they showed early on. McLaren does look legit though, for some reason but honestly--2 great weekends from them and the way Lando was able to stick to Max is something we hadn't seen yet (granted, probably their best track all season, but whatever. At least that's something!). But It really is that they seem to have figured out degen better than anyone else....unless for some reason it's whatever that compound they were using for H was last weekend. I forget which C, heh. Just Uncanny how it seemed to work very much quicker and longer for McLaren compared to everyone else. Very, very strange. Ferrari still doesn't seem to have figured that out completely. For both cars, anyway.

 

[Ajay]

Oh, 5 sessions, lol. No matter how you look at it, he hasn't made Q3 in 5 straight weekends, and he should be at P2, 3 at the very least in every race. There are no more reasons for him not to be, really.

He's been pretty damn good in those races, most things considering and some really really well, tbh, but qualifying has completely ended him. I feel like his head is fucked about it.

I also don't know how Aston has seemed to let the air out so quickly. Not like they're out of 2nd, just....not staying there like they showed early on. McLaren does look legit though, for some reason but honestly--2 great weekends from them and the way Lando was able to stick to Max is something we hadn't seen yet (granted, probably their best track all season, but whatever. At least that's something!). But It really is that they seem to have figured out degen better than anyone else....unless for some reason it's whatever that compound they were using for H was last weekend. I forget which C, heh. Just Uncanny how it seemed to work very much quicker and longer for McLaren compared to everyone else. Very, very strange. Ferrari still doesn't seem to have figured that out completely. For both cars, anyway.

McLaren's upgrade was a huge boost for them, and , as you point out, Silverstone is really an ideal track for their current car. I was thinking the same thing about Perez - no reason he should finish off the podium unless there was a track incident that affected him. He's had some good recovery drives, but that's not good enough for RB really. His head probably isn't in the right space right now - at least with a two year contract, he should be able to get out of it quickly enough to be solidly in 2nd place in the driver's championship.

Ferrari - probably the third best driver on the grid with Leclerc - and yet they have been dicking around with the WORST strategies for the past two years. It's somewhere between aggravating and comical to watch the outcome of the pit wall decisions. I'd be really mad if I were one of the Tifosi.

 

[zinfamous]

Yeah, Ferrari has been hilarious for two seasons--maybe not as bad as last year as what seems to have been a better car suffered much more from terrible team strategy and race decisions.

Honestly, I'd put LeClerc at ~5th, with the obvious + Alonso and maybe even Norris? in front of him. The dude is fast as hell and a superlative qualifier--I think the best qualifier of the current generation--but he still makes too many mistakes in races (his own--not just his team). Still, he's one of those that deserves if not a better car, a better, more consistent team behind him to keep him in the running. I think Albon is in the same boat, and of course I would have also said Norris as well, but maybe they've finally figured it out there. Speaking of, Piastri really is looking solid.

 

[Ajay]

Yeah, Ferrari has been hilarious for two seasons--maybe not as bad as last year as what seems to have been a better car suffered much more from terrible team strategy and race decisions.

Honestly, I'd put LeClerc at ~5th, with the obvious + Alonso and maybe even Norris? in front of him. The dude is fast as hell and a superlative qualifier--I think the best qualifier of the current generation--but he still makes too many mistakes in races (his own--not just his team). Still, he's one of those that deserves if not a better car, a better, more consistent team behind him to keep him in the running. I think Albon is in the same boat, and of course I would have also said Norris as well, but maybe they've finally figured it out there. Speaking of, Piastri really is looking solid.

Leclerc's racecraft is top notch, better than Norris and about equal to Alonso (or, so it seems - it may be just that Alonso has to give up positions because it's not worth the battle against faster cars). It is true that Leclerc is making more mistakes, kind of like Vettel at Ferrari. Piastri is the looking like the cream of the crop of the rookies this year.

Ah, I forgot Hamilton - on par with Max if they are both in cars that suit them well. Max has matured enough to being a real World Champion - just watching the lines he takes and the fact that his actual travel distance on many tracks is lower than everybody else in the field. I think I saw an analysis from the "Race" youtube guys and it only adds up to something like 100m - but that plenty of distance for the win at the end of a race.

 

[Ajay]

FINAL SEASON RESULTS:

2023 Constructor Standings​

POS	TEAM	PTS
1	RED BULL RACING HONDA RBPT	860
2	MERCEDES	409
3	FERRARI	406
4	MCLAREN MERCEDES	302
5	ASTON MARTIN ARAMCO MERCEDES	280
6	ALPINE RENAULT	120
7	WILLIAMS MERCEDES	28
8	ALPHATAURI HONDA RBPT	25
9	ALFA ROMEO FERRARI	16
10	HAAS FERRARI	12

2023 Driver Standings​

POS	DRIVER	NATIONALITY	CAR	PTS
1	Max Verstappen	NED	RED BULL RACING HONDA RBPT	575
2	Sergio Perez	MEX	RED BULL RACING HONDA RBPT	285
3	Lewis Hamilton	GBR	MERCEDES	234
4	Fernando Alonso	ESP	ASTON MARTIN ARAMCO MERCEDES	206
5	Charles Leclerc	MON	FERRARI	206
6	Lando Norris	GBR	MCLAREN MERCEDES	205
7	Carlos Sainz	ESP	FERRARI	200
8	George Russell	GBR	MERCEDES	175
9	Oscar Piastri	AUS	MCLAREN MERCEDES	97
10	Lance Stroll	CAN	ASTON MARTIN ARAMCO MERCEDES	74
11	Pierre Gasly	FRA	ALPINE RENAULT	62
12	Esteban Ocon	FRA	ALPINE RENAULT	58
13	Alexander Albon	THA	WILLIAMS MERCEDES	27
14	Yuki Tsunoda	JPN	ALPHATAURI HONDA RBPT	17
15	Valtteri Bottas	FIN	ALFA ROMEO FERRARI	10
16	Nico Hulkenberg	GER	HAAS FERRARI	9
17	Daniel Ricciardo	AUS	ALPHATAURI HONDA RBPT	6
18	Zhou Guanyu	CHN	ALFA ROMEO FERRARI	6
19	Kevin Magnussen	DEN	HAAS FERRARI	3
20	Liam Lawson	NZL	ALPHATAURI HONDA RBPT	2
21	Logan Sargeant	USA	WILLIAMS MERCEDES	1
22	Nyck De Vries	NED	ALPHATAURI HONDA RBPT	0

Team have a lot of work ahead of them to close the gap to Red Bull. There are also problems significant with 'dirty' air overheat brakes and tires which was supposed to be solved with the new high downforce formula - but teams have found way to improve their aerodynamics in ways that have partially brought the problem back. I don't expect this trend to change significantly till the 2026 cars debut.

 

[zinfamous]

Yeah as much as teams like McLaren, and to some lesser degree, Mercedes improved over the last half of the season, those competitors are still finishing something like 20s ave behind Max doesn't really bode will for next year's competition, we shall see. ...I say Max because he's clearly married to that car, unlike Checo. I'm also not sure if anyone out there would be more on Max's level in the same car with those same tendencies. Maybe LeClerc?

I think the rumors of RBR still sandbagging a bit on their performance is probably legit, lol.

Still, for all the teams that aren't RBR that I'd like to be right now, probably McLaren. Fantastic young, potential champion drivers and the development is absolutely going in the right direction for them.

 

[Ajay]

Guess it's just you and I left in this thread zin. McLaren is looking great - super impressed with Piastri this season. Lewis is in third with a terror-bad car. Perez barely made 2nd with the best car in years - not most drivers just can't drive a Newey F1 car.

 

[zinfamous]

hah, I would have posted more but what's the point? I think most are pretty bored with this season. I thought the Singapore race was great, and it's usually my least favorite. Not because RBR was incompetent there, but there was just a lot of great racing going on.

I was pleasantly surprised by Vegas, I dug it a lot. I think the flash and all that is probably a bit sour for the old hats, but eh, F1 has been doing that for a long time now, and it's not like Monaco wasn't always one of the flashiest sports things anywhere, every year it has been run. Vegas is a pretty awesome track and makes for great racing...wish they could do something about the track temp, though.

I'm excited to see what McLaren does next year, and do hope Mercedes can improve a lot. I'd like to see some real challenge to Max, Lewis would be great but I'd take Lando! Perez really took a dive off after those first upgrades. He was looking great at the beginning and while there is probably just tremendous pressure, I think there's a lot of truth to him not being comfortable with the first upgrades that were really just tuned to Max's style.

 

[_Rick_]

Guess it's just you and I left in this thread zin.

Allow me to make a rare comeback!

I wonder how seriously some of the teams are going to be taking 2024/25 now. I guess Alpine/Aston/Ferrari/McLaren will try to keep pushing, but below and above, does it really make sense to work hard on the car, if the 2026 car will be the one that will just matter so much more? Especially with the huge gap RB are enjoying in race pace.
Whether Andretti can convince the existing teams to be allowed to join the fray will also be interesting.
Sure, the days of 26 cars on the grids weren't exactly the glory days, but with the budget cap, it should be possible to make the case for the 11th team. Also, with so many great F2 champions not being able to go for an F1 seat, and GP Academy being a thing - more seats in F1 would be a good thing.

Also, two re-brandings. The new Sauber name makes me cringe already, and let's see what the Italian Red Bull will be named...

 

[Ajay]

Allow me to make a rare comeback!

I wonder how seriously some of the teams are going to be taking 2024/25 now. I guess Alpine/Aston/Ferrari/McLaren will try to keep pushing, but below and above, does it really make sense to work hard on the car, if the 2026 car will be the one that will just matter so much more? Especially with the huge gap RB are enjoying in race pace.
Whether Andretti can convince the existing teams to be allowed to join the fray will also be interesting.
Sure, the days of 26 cars on the grids weren't exactly the glory days, but with the budget cap, it should be possible to make the case for the 11th team. Also, with so many great F2 champions not being able to go for an F1 seat, and GP Academy being a thing - more seats in F1 would be a good thing.

Also, two re-brandings. The new Sauber name makes me cringe already, and let's see what the Italian Red Bull will be named...

Hey, how's it going Rick! Well, Red Bull will still push development on the next two cars because being number one in F1 is the bestest feeling on earth. Why risk ending that streak early? I do hope to see more wins by Ferrari, McLaren and Merc at least; otherwise it's a bit boring. It's much better when Driver/Constructor champs crowned till the last or second to last race.

2026 sure is going to be a dice throw, like 2014. Who knows what the initial pecking order will be. Teams can't spend a zillion dollars on a new car concept anymore.

 

[ElFenix]

 

[zinfamous]

22 seconds....

sure it's a long season and a lot can happen, but fuck it. It's over already. Literally no answer for Max. It looks like a lot of teams can probably catch RBR via Checo--but not Max.

 

[_Rick_]

And that's two pole positions in a row, with a car that "is really stronger in the race".
I'm still amazed how much Checo is struggling, doesn't look like he recovered from last year's humiliation over the winter.

Daniel Ricciardo also isn't really making inroads into Yuki. If he got a wake-up call after Bahrain and manages to chill down a bit before reacting to what's going on around him, then he'll be in the Red Bull next year.

One of the other drivers that consistently manage to surprise me is Zhou - he is kind of anonymous in the Sauber, but his performances are generally pretty good. He is qualifying on the level of Valtteri, who is known to be very quick on a single lap, and he does mega races as well - but then he puts it in the wall in FP3, and the pundits are already saying that he won't be there, when Audi takes over team management.

Also: the F1 field is insanely close this year - closer than the spec support series. How??? F1 Academy has pole gaps of half a second, F2 has bigger gaps - sure the teams also have different resources in regards to chasing the right setup, and the skill-spread is a bit steeper in F1 Academy, for sure. Yet the gaps we see in F1 (except for Max, and maybe Alpine) are so tight that it's almost commonplace that some pair of drivers in the quali standings is split by a handful of milliseconds, and hundredths have become the new tenths....
Just looking at the Aston Martin and McLaren trajectories across last season - if you find or don't find .2 of a second, that can easily drop you from the podium out of the points..

Also, Lewis is driving like Vettel at Ferrari in 2020...
I wonder if he's already trying to put Ferrari on second in the championship.
I really don't like these early season announcements for driver changes in the next season, it puts such a huge question mark on everyone's motivation.

 

[Meghan54]

And that's two pole positions in a row, with a car that "is really stronger in the race".
I'm still amazed how much Checo is struggling, doesn't look like he recovered from last year's humiliation over the winter.

Daniel Ricciardo also isn't really making inroads into Yuki. If he got a wake-up call after Bahrain and manages to chill down a bit before reacting to what's going on around him, then he'll be in the Red Bull next year.

One of the other drivers that consistently manage to surprise me is Zhou - he is kind of anonymous in the Sauber, but his performances are generally pretty good. He is qualifying on the level of Valtteri, who is known to be very quick on a single lap, and he does mega races as well - but then he puts it in the wall in FP3, and the pundits are already saying that he won't be there, when Audi takes over team management.

Also: the F1 field is insanely close this year - closer than the spec support series. How??? F1 Academy has pole gaps of half a second, F2 has bigger gaps - sure the teams also have different resources in regards to chasing the right setup, and the skill-spread is a bit steeper in F1 Academy, for sure. Yet the gaps we see in F1 (except for Max, and maybe Alpine) are so tight that it's almost commonplace that some pair of drivers in the quali standings is split by a handful of milliseconds, and hundredths have become the new tenths....
Just looking at the Aston Martin and McLaren trajectories across last season - if you find or don't find .2 of a second, that can easily drop you from the podium out of the points..

Also, Lewis is driving like Vettel at Ferrari in 2020...
I wonder if he's already trying to put Ferrari on second in the championship.
I really don't like these early season announcements for driver changes in the next season, it puts such a huge question mark on everyone's motivation.

About Hamilton. I’d hope the man has some integrity.

But, yeah, Max and Red Bull are going to win every race and prob pole, barring some horrid incident.

 

[thedarkwolf]

Ferrari can snag some poles and there are always mishaps that let somebody sneak in a win even if that is Perez.

 

[zinfamous]

Ferrari can snag some poles and there are always mishaps that let somebody sneak in a win even if that is Perez.

Maybe a backmarker will crash out Max or something but other than that, I don't see any opportunity for him to not finish a race with the way reliability is these days for the top teams.

 

[_Rick_]

Maybe a backmarker will crash out Max or something but other than that, I don't see any opportunity for him to not finish a race with the way reliability is these days for the top teams.

*laughs in Ferrari*

 

[manly]

No mention if they're still running Windows 7.

Formula 1 chief appalled to find team using Excel to manage 20,000 car parts

Williams team leader may only be shocked because he hasn't worked IT.

arstechnica.com