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[UPDATED] Asking for a Promotion

S

Stuxnet

Diamond Member
This is strange because I've always "played the game" very well in the office... but I find myself in a peculiar situation where I am very deserving of a promotion to XYZ. I'm already doing the work which constitutes XYZ, and I've been doing it for 8 months (since I was hired).

I have a very solid relationship with my boss's boss. I worked with him at another company and he's the one who brought me in here. My direct boss is pretty much a spineless nitwit, and it's pretty apparent to everyone (were it not for his long tenure here, he would have likely been fired). I don't want his job, but I do want the recognition and pay associated with the work that I'm actually doing.

Would it be appropriate to approach my boss's boss and discuss the possibility of a small promotion. The jump from my current title to this one is not a large one at all. It's the next natural step. The reason I hesitate is that I've only been here for 8 months. However, in that 8 months I literally saved one software project that was in dire straights by totally rearchitecting it. I proposed an entirely new product offering which has resulted in a TON of revenue ($2M and counting), and I spearheaded the design and development efforts of said offering.

I know I'll probably be asked what my current title is and what the one I want is, but take my word for it that it's really not relevant. I just want to know if I would be abusing my relationship with my boss's boss by subtly asking for a promotion and a raise. The raise would probably be about 5% - 7%. Honestly, I don't even care about the money; it's not about that. I want the title and the official recognition for the benefit I've brought this company through my ambition, creativity, and analysis.
 
Originally posted by: jbourne77
This is strange because I've always "played the game" very well in the office... but I find myself in a peculiar situation where I am very deserving of a promotion to XYZ. I'm already doing the work which constitutes XYZ, and I've been doing it for 8 months (since I was hired).

I have a very solid relationship with my boss's boss. I worked with him at another company and he's the one who brought me in here. My direct boss is pretty much a spineless nitwit, and it's pretty apparent to everyone (were it not for his long tenure here, he would have likely been fired). I don't want his job, but I do want the recognition and pay associated with the work that I'm actually doing.

Would it be appropriate to approach my boss's boss and discuss the possibility of a small promotion. The jump from my current title to this one is not a large one at all. It's the next natural step. The reason I hesitate is that I've only been here for 8 months. However, in that 8 months I literally saved one software project that was in dire straights by totally rearchitecting it. I proposed an entirely new product offering which has resulted in a TON of revenue ($2M and counting), and I spearheaded the design and development efforts of said offering.

I know I'll probably be asked what my current title is and what the one I want is, but take my word for it that it's really not relevant. I just want to know if I would be abusing my relationship with my boss's boss by subtly asking for a promotion and a raise. The raise would probably be about 5% - 7%. Honestly, I don't even care about the money; it's not about that. I want the title and the official recognition for the benefit I've brought this company through my ambition, creativity, and analysis.
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Screw that. You should have negotiated something with the company when you proposed the entirely new product offering for a small percentage of the profits. You and the company would both be rich (rather than just the company).
 
Originally posted by: Garet Jax
Originally posted by: jbourne77
This is strange because I've always "played the game" very well in the office... but I find myself in a peculiar situation where I am very deserving of a promotion to XYZ. I'm already doing the work which constitutes XYZ, and I've been doing it for 8 months (since I was hired).

I have a very solid relationship with my boss's boss. I worked with him at another company and he's the one who brought me in here. My direct boss is pretty much a spineless nitwit, and it's pretty apparent to everyone (were it not for his long tenure here, he would have likely been fired). I don't want his job, but I do want the recognition and pay associated with the work that I'm actually doing.

Would it be appropriate to approach my boss's boss and discuss the possibility of a small promotion. The jump from my current title to this one is not a large one at all. It's the next natural step. The reason I hesitate is that I've only been here for 8 months. However, in that 8 months I literally saved one software project that was in dire straights by totally rearchitecting it. I proposed an entirely new product offering which has resulted in a TON of revenue ($2M and counting), and I spearheaded the design and development efforts of said offering.

I know I'll probably be asked what my current title is and what the one I want is, but take my word for it that it's really not relevant. I just want to know if I would be abusing my relationship with my boss's boss by subtly asking for a promotion and a raise. The raise would probably be about 5% - 7%. Honestly, I don't even care about the money; it's not about that. I want the title and the official recognition for the benefit I've brought this company through my ambition, creativity, and analysis.
Click to expand...

Screw that. You should have negotiated something with the company when you proposed the entirely new product offering for a small percentage of the profits. You and the company would both be rich (rather than just the company).
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The day you hold a company's intellectual property over their head is the last day you ever work in that field.
 
I'd suggest approaching your current boss first. He may be a real winner, but he'll probably be pissed if you go directly over his head without even notifying him beforehand.
 
Originally posted by: diegoalcatraz
I'd suggest approaching your current boss first. He may be a real winner, but he'll probably be pissed if you go directly over his head without even notifying him beforehand.
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Actually, he and I have no rapport at all. He's been essentially neutered by his lack of personality, ambition, and general knowledge. He's kept around simply for his experience with our customers. From a managerial standpoint and a technological standpoint, he brings jack to the table. I'm not saying this because I don't like him, it's simply the way it is. He's a necessary evil, as his boss put it once. I don't actualy report to him, and he has virtually no bearing on my day-to-day tasks.

I guess what I'm getting at is that there would be little point in going to him first simply because, other than on paper, I don't work for the guy. I'm really not concerned about what his take on it is. He already knows he's in trouble, he's scared as sh*t, and it's really his problem rather than anyone else's.

My main concern is that HIS boss will construe my approach on the promotion issue as me taking advantage of our successes and our relationship.
 
If you're not worried about going over your "boss"'s head (it sounds like he's not really your boss, and everyone knows it), then there is nothing to worry about. It never hurts to ask for a raise; it sounds like you have valid reasons. In fact, I would think the fact you were able to accomplish so much in just 8 months should be good leverage.
 
Originally posted by: axnff
If you're not worried about going over your "boss"'s head (it sounds like he's not really your boss, and everyone knows it), then there is nothing to worry about. It never hurts to ask for a raise; it sounds like you have valid reasons. In fact, I would think the fact you were able to accomplish so much in just 8 months should be good leverage.
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If you go around your boss he is going to resent the hell out of it. Might as well just ask for his job

 
No-Thread-Extensions Moderator asked that I update this one instead of making a new one, so here it is:

Cliff's from yesterday: I've been busting my ass at my job since I was hired 8 months ago. I was hired by the VP of IT/IS, whom I worked for at a previous company. I have countless responsibilities that more than justify a promotion and raise to the next position. I asked if it would be inappropriate to ask said VP for a promotion.

(Cliff's to the rest are at the bottom)

Well, he blew me off completely. So completely that I actually lost most of my respect for him, which sucks because he was a mentor of mine; almost a second father in some ways. I've known him for the better part of a decade and have always given him 200%, but he's really begun to take my contributions for granted. I work 60 hours a week in the office and 15 - 20 hours a week at home. I've had to give up hobbies and most of my social life simply so I could keep up with my normal job responsibilities (normal = what was in my original job description). Because my direct manager is an incompetant twat, I've actually been tasked which much of what he's supposed to be doing, too. It's a trainwreck.

So I went into the VP's office, who I know on both a professional and personal level, and explained my situation. I told him I was very committed to my work but given the amount of responsibility (and the great successes of my efforts over the past 8 months) that I would like to know what the company's short-term plans for me were. I'm due for a review in a few months and I wanted to see if we were all on the same page with regard to an "official acknowledgement" of my contributions to the company. ("official acknowledgement" = promotion and raise). The promotion I eluded to is a minor one. I wasn't even asking for 10%. The promotion I had mentioned would have justified a 5% - 7% raise and a title "upgrade".

He basically started talking to me like he'd never even met me before. The bastard tried to policitically spin the situation! I COULDN'T BELIEVE IT! We've worked together for quite some time, and he specifically recruited me to come work for him at this company after his non-compete expired at our previous company. Then he pulls the whole "well I'm glad you brought this to my attention so I'm aware that this is the career path that you're interested in" bullshit. INTERESTED IN? IM ALREADY FVCKING DOING IT YOU STUPID EGGPLANT!

He continued:

"Maybe we can get together periodically over the next few years and evaluate the development of this type of skillset so you can eventually move into such a position."

The turd acted like I was asking for HIS job!!!! I don't want to get into what my specific title is and what I was asking for, but it's essentially like going from "Senior Burger Flipper" to "Burger Flipping Leader". Years? Fvck that.

In a nutshell, I saved one project from the contractor-abyss that the development manager had sunk it into before I got here. We fired two contractors and I rearchitected the entire suite from scratch. We then hired new contractors to leverage my new framework. Despite the project getting scrapped and re-worked 3 months in to a 9 month timetable, it was delivered a MONTH ahead of schedule!

I also pulled 3 of our web-based projects (my idea) under one umbrella and even outlined the marketing specs after we delivered solution.

In all of this I was managing both projects, a separate project (that one where I was the only one working on it), 10 contractors, and 2 permanent employees.

... but no "formal recognition is planned"

O RLY???

Guuuuuhd-bye!

Whenever I do something noteworthy at work, I update my resume. My resume is always up to date. Well, did a job search and there is a TON of opportunity in my area that I'm WELL qualified for.

Talk about a weight lifted off my chest.

CLIFFS:
- Doing tons of work
- Not getting paid enough for it and promotion denied
- Getting a new job
- LIBERATION AND PROFIT!
 
Be sure to not offer them any extra services if you gave them a 2 week notice. Start working only your standard 40 hours. Don't put in any extra effort, etc. THen let them go high and dry.

I put in my 2 week notice yesterday but I alreayd have another job lined up that I start at tne end of April.
 
Originally posted by: FrankyJunior
Be sure to not offer them any extra services if you gave them a 2 week notice. Start working only your standard 40 hours. Don't put in any extra effort, etc. THen let them go high and dry.

I put in my 2 week notice yesterday but I alreayd have another job lined up that I start at tne end of April.
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That's the kicker. I'm the only enterprise software architect on the staff. It's one of the many reasons I deserve a promotion, and it's precisely why I'm leading these projects. There is no one else here with the skills required to scale our project as demand requires. Everyone below me is basically a form-monkey or ASPX monkey.

I'm not saying what I'm about to say just because I'm a pissed off employee, but believe me when I say: without my expertise and knowledge, especially of their own products, they are UP. A. CREEEEEEEEK. In fact, it's one of the reasons I was so offended by what the VP said. He's ignoring all of the value I bring to the table. I've advanced our product offerings so far, that to not at least acknowledge it.... ARGH!!!!

40 hours a week started today 😉 .
 
Bad idea to quit. Regardless of the truth of the matter, to future employers you will probably look like a malcontent. Worked at a place for 8 months, asked for a promotion, then quit when you didn't get one. I don't know how you could possibly spin that as a positive during an interview, and you should also be concerned that they will call your former employers and hear an unfavorable review.

I don't know how many jobs you've had, but the situation you are describing is quite common. There are a lot of incompetent people out there, and you often have to pick up their slack. You don't always get credit for it either. It's not always true about the squeaky wheel.
 
And also worth noting, if you are an app architect and the only one, and they hired you because they needed one, you shouldn't have a sense of entitlement because you did your job as an architect and no one else there could have done it. That's the whole reason they hired you, probably.
 
Originally posted by: jbourne77
Originally posted by: FrankyJunior
Be sure to not offer them any extra services if you gave them a 2 week notice. Start working only your standard 40 hours. Don't put in any extra effort, etc. THen let them go high and dry.

I put in my 2 week notice yesterday but I alreayd have another job lined up that I start at tne end of April.
Click to expand...

That's the kicker. I'm the only enterprise software architect on the staff. It's one of the many reasons I deserve a promotion, and it's precisely why I'm leading these projects. There is no one else here with the skills required to scale our project as demand requires. Everyone below me is basically a form-monkey or ASPX monkey.

I'm not saying what I'm about to say just because I'm a pissed off employee, but believe me when I say: without my expertise and knowledge, especially of their own products, they are UP. A. CREEEEEEEEK. In fact, it's one of the reasons I was so offended by what the VP said. He's ignoring all of the value I bring to the table. I've advanced our product offerings so far, that to not at least acknowledge it.... ARGH!!!!

40 hours a week started today 😉 .
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Man the ego you have is rediculous. You're demanding a raise and title promotion and you've been there 8 months? Now all the sudden they can't run this business or THEIR software without you being there. I mean it's not like they didn't start the business without you and already have the products in place.

FYI: You don't bring value. There's a thousand more people out there just like you. Asking for a raise when you haven't even been there for a year is absured. You don't deserve it and you won't get it. You signed on for the job and your pay. If you aren't happy, leave. They've done nothing wrong though.
 
Originally posted by: nakedfrog
Eh, you've only been there 8 months.
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Very true, but if they needed someone to do XYZ, then they should have hired me to do XYZ and paid me accordingly, rather than hiring me at ABC's pay scale and then throwing XYZ onto the stack. Note that what I'm currently going through isn't new. I've been handling many of the manager's responsibility's since the day I got here. He's one of those guys who hasn't kept up on technology and brings absolutely nothing to the table. He offers input on software content, and that's it.

Additionally, I wasn't asking for an immediate raise or promotion. I made it very clear to him that I was just looking for an idea of what his short-term plans for me were. Basically, that means "my review is in a few months and I've had some KILLER accomplishments, let's talk about what's going to happen".
 
Keep in mind that their lack of recognition of your accomplishments isn't personal, nor is it a slam on your abilities and achievements. It only means they choose not to pay you want you think you are worth, and they don't comprehend (not "ignoring" as you said) the value you bring to the company.

I have seen this happen in many companies. The people who make the promotion/raise decisions don't really understand the technical achievements people make, so they don't value them appropriately.

You'll find a place that does, I'm sure. Good luck.
 
Originally posted by: LikeLinus
Man the ego you have is rediculous. You're demanding a raise and title promotion and you've been there 8 months? Now all the sudden they can't run this business or THEIR software without you being there. I mean it's not like they didn't start the business without you and already have the products in place.

FYI: You don't bring value. There's a thousand more people out there just like you. Asking for a raise when you haven't even been there for a year is absured. You don't deserve it and you won't get it. You signed on for the job and your pay. If you aren't happy, leave. They've done nothing wrong though.
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You're an idiot and haven't read what's been said. Their current generation of products were FAILING. THAT'S WHY I WAS HIRED. I evaluated the current contractors and what they had accomplished. We fired them. I hired 10 new ones. I rearchitected the software. We nailed it a month ahead of schedule. I also consolidated 3 of our other projects that had been in development by 3 separate teams in total isolation. We integrated the products into a suite, under my recommendation and guidance, and are now $2M richer and counting.

Ego? Yeah, I have an ego. I'm damn good at what I do. Who the hell are you?
 
Good luck!

I would definately suggest you stick to your guns and get a new job ASAP! The longer you stay where you are, the more resentment you will have.... and that could have many ill side-effects in your life.

Also, keep us posted on everyone's reaction to your 40hrs a week change!
 
Originally posted by: torpid
And also worth noting, if you are an app architect and the only one, and they hired you because they needed one, you shouldn't have a sense of entitlement because you did your job as an architect and no one else there could have done it. That's the whole reason they hired you, probably.
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They didn't hire me to manage personnel, projects, and budgets. That is a totally different position... yet I'm doing all of those things, too.
 
Originally posted by: torpid
Bad idea to quit. Regardless of the truth of the matter, to future employers you will probably look like a malcontent. Worked at a place for 8 months, asked for a promotion, then quit when you didn't get one. I don't know how you could possibly spin that as a positive during an interview, and you should also be concerned that they will call your former employers and hear an unfavorable review.

I don't know how many jobs you've had, but the situation you are describing is quite common. There are a lot of incompetent people out there, and you often have to pick up their slack. You don't always get credit for it either. It's not always true about the squeaky wheel.
Click to expand...

I'm not too worried about that. I was at my previous job for a very, very long time and left on excellent terms (in my exit interview, HR's exact words were "if you ever want to come back, the door's open").

I have great references that go from my fellow developers all the way up to the Director of IT there. Yeah, I have one glitch on the resume that's 8 months "short", but in the grand scheme of things, I'm in great shape.
 
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