Updated 8/13/2004: Absolute proof of a Moore deception in F911

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: Tiles2Tech
The deception is that it is portrayed as *all* seniors have double co-pays, but, doesn't clarify that only those making over $50K pay the double amount. How many seniors do you know if that are making over $50K? Sure, they exist, but there's not a lot of them.

Problem is, these sort of "Moore Lies" threads are just as partisan as the "Bush Lies!" threads you see around here. And just as hypocritical, as most of the anti-Moore posters here and the Moore critics out there in Conservative Media land refuse to level the same amount of scrutiny at the current administration.

At least I can admit that Moore employs a certain level of deception by not clarifying or not quantifying things or playing fast and loose with the editing. Most of it is nitpicky stuff as this thread demonstrates. Fact is, I don't hold Moore to the same standard as my government on whose shoulders rest a much larger responsibility. Nor should I. You could take nearly any movie out there, documentary or otherwise, and scrutinize it to produce a list of errors and inconsistancies.

 

[alchemize]

t the risk of ending up pigeon-holed in Alchie's neat little category system of traitors against the Republic, I thought I'd chime in.

I knew you couldn't stand it - thanks for removing yourself from that category. Now if TheBDB takes a position it will be unanimous, neocons think he lied or deceived, liberals trying to spin, spin, spin away

 

[Fingolfin269]

I've seen the movie twice. It is just like any other Moore film. He tells the truth but in a way that makes whatever he's against look bad. A good example would be the senior copays as mentioned by T2T. Which sounds better for Moore's purposes?

'Bush doubled the copays for senior citizens'

'Bush double the copays for senior citizens making over $50,000 annually'

You see my point.

 

[Caminetto]

I remember when Limbaugh stopped billing himself as a political analyst and went with entertainer instead. We all know who the partisans are, and we all know they like their "creative license".

 

[burnedout]

Ah yes, good old Michael at work again, I see.

First we were treated to stolen footage from a military funeral service. Now, this.

liberal diversionists and apologists: 6
Eurotrash liberal (oxymoron?) diversionists and general threadcrapper/hijacker: 1

Bah hahahahahaha.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: alchemize

t the risk of ending up pigeon-holed in Alchie's neat little category system of traitors against the Republic, I thought I'd chime in.

I knew you couldn't stand it - thanks for removing yourself from that category. Now if TheBDB takes a position it will be unanimous, neocons think he lied or deceived, liberals trying to spin, spin, spin away

That's great, keep your little lists ... reminds me of someone else around here .... hmmmm, who was that? Anyway, I don't suppose you read my post DIRECTLY above yours, did you? Here, let me refresh your memory

Problem is, these sort of "Moore Lies" threads are just as partisan as the "Bush Lies!" threads you see around here. And just as hypocritical, as most of the anti-Moore posters here and the Moore critics out there in Conservative Media land refuse to level the same amount of scrutiny at the current administration.

At least I can admit that Moore employs a certain level of deception by not clarifying or not quantifying things or playing fast and loose with the editing. Most of it is nitpicky stuff as this thread demonstrates. Fact is, I don't hold Moore to the same standard as my government on whose shoulders rest a much larger responsibility. Nor should I. You could take nearly any movie out there, documentary or otherwise, and scrutinize it to produce a list of errors and inconsistancies.

Hmmm, interesting isn't it? Especially that bolded part. But whatever Al, feel free to ignore what people say. One more thing -- why don't you take my challenge and level your scrutiny at the current administration and some of their quotes. I'm sure if you did, you would find a Moore-esque effort to deceive, twist words, juxtapose unrelated ideas, etc.

Or are you too partisan to handle that?

 

[GeneralGrievous]

The problem is that some people are actually believing Moore, as he is not a high ranking member of the Democratic party. Since he is "employing a certain level of deception", why should anyone believe anything he says in the film?

My mom is decided to vote for Kerry after seeing the film. It's shameful.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: alchemize
Well, I'll say this. I know enough about it that in general, Moore uses misstatements, innuendo, and deceptive practices to come down on Bush. This is exactly what he's accused Bush of doing with WMD, which is horribly ironic IMHO. Moore: "You (in my opinion) lied! Therefore I'm going to use the same methods of deception to prove you lied"!

As with most, the truth lies somewhere in the middle. I've said before, if Bush just stated "I'm going to go after Iraq simply because it is unfinished business, because it borders Iran, and because I'm going to deliver the middle east a message", that would have been good enough for me. The rest is politics. We've fought wars over much, much less.

For the sake of argument, let's stipulate your characterization of Moore is accurate. How can you equate using "misstatements, innuendo, and deceptive practices" to make a political statement with using "misstatements, innuendo, and deceptive practices" to send thousands of innocent people to their deaths? I can't see how the two are in the same game, let alone the same league.

 

[Genx87]

UN resolution 687.
Three major intelligence agencies said Saddam had WMD.
Top Al Queda figures were in Iraq using bases.
UN doesnt believe Saddam is WMD free.

Now if you saw this on your desk and you have the duty to protect roughly 300 million american lives.
Would you just sit back and hope for the best?

 

[Ozoned]

I believe that this thread in a way gives some validity to Moore's Film,,,,The claims about how fvcking stupid some Americans are, at least the ones that parted with their money to watch his film and the ones that are making their voting decisions based upon "the truth" that his film claims to put forward.

How was it put? "The truth is on our side." That about right?????

 

[Genx87]

What I find amusing to an extent is how people really believe Moore cares. The only thing Moore cares about is Moore and making Moore money. Honestly deep down inside I bet he probably doesnt want Bush to lose. Because he can make lots of money off the man for the next 4 years.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: Ozoned
I believe that this thread in a way gives some validity to Moore's Film,,,,The claims about how fvcking stupid some Americans are, at least the ones that parted with their money to watch his film and the ones that are making their voting decisions based upon "the truth" that his film claims to put forward.

How was it put? "The truth is on our side." That about right?????

Have you seen the film? If so, count yourself among your "stupid" Americans who "parted with their money to watch his film." If not, count yourself as one of the ignorant sheep who mindlessly bleat whatever Limbaugh and his ilk tell you to bleat. Pick one.

 

[Gaard]

Originally posted by: Genx87
The only thing Moore cares about is Moore and making Moore money.

He told you this?

 

[alchemize]

Bump for Lawyer response to the suit.

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: Excelsior
Dudes, Fahrenheit 9/11 is propoganda, don't you all know that?

Dude, do you know what propoganda is?