Update Path - Need Advice

[htmlmasterdave]

I'm in the market for a new LCD(something that can do at least 1280x1024, probably 1600x1200 or WS), and although you'd think that would simply mean I just need an LCD, I also need a new graphics card. This is a problem because right now I have an nForce3 AGP 250 S754 motherboard(w/ a64@2.25ghz and 1GB@500mhz). My current card is fairly old (GF4 Ti4200), and I need a new card with DVI. So, I want a system that will be decently fast, and can handle games like DOD:Source(although I mainly play TFT) at the native resolution. Problem is, while I could buy something for AGP that would fit the bill, AGP, and correct me if I'm wrong, is essentially a dead technology and it will be difficult to use this card in the future. (like if for some reason I went to an X2 setup in 6 months) I could buy a PCI-E motherboard for s754, but then I have the potential problem of that platform being discontinued in the fairly near future? That also costs more, and that money would probably be better put into a faster graphics card... same with upgrading the cpu and motherboard.

So basically I'm asking, does it make sense to buy an AGP card, and if so which one would you recommend? (if you have any opinions on some kickass lcds (i'm considering the viewsonic vp2030b), that would also be great) I just feel weird buying a technology I think is dieing.

Thanks!

 

[kalrith]

What are planning to spend on your upgrade? Do you have a preference between ATI or Nvidia, or would you accept recommendations for either?

AGP is still here, but it's not the main interface anymore, so you'll pay around a $50 premium to get similar performance from an AGP card that you would out of a PCI-e card. Also, as you already said, if you decide to just upgrade the graphics card now and then upgrade to an X2 later, you'll have to buy a socket 939 mobo that has an AGP slot or upgrade your video card again. I was in a similar situation in January, and I decided to just go ahead and upgrade my whole system. If you have the resources to do that, then that's what I would recommend. Not knowing your budget though makes it difficult to make specific recommendations.

 

[Ultralight]

Also, what is your budget?

 

[kalrith]

Originally posted by: Ultralight
Also, what is your budget?

Didn't I already ask that?

 

[kalrith]

Originally posted by: Ultralight
Also, what is your budget?

Didn't I already ask that?

 

[htmlmasterdave]

I would probably prefer an nvidia... I'm thinking of the EVGA 7800GS OC right now. Well, I probably don't want to spend much over $1k altogether, and since I'm looking at the Dell 2007WFP(or that viewsonic), that would pretty much get me there. I basically want this upgrade to last until about the end of next summer... so a little bit more than a year. If you guys think that it would pretty much get me there, in terms of the ability to play games, then I think it would be ok. If not, then I'll have to re-evaluate my budget and look at spending a bit more.

 

[kalrith]

For $1000 and with gaming in mind, here's my recommendation (all prices are after shipping, coupons, and rebates):

$128 mobo: DFI LANPARTY UT nF4 Ultra-D
$159 cpu: Opteron 146 (just do what it says in the thread to get this price)
$294 gpu: 7900GT
$300 monitor: VIEWSONIC VX2025wm 20.1" Widescreen (It's currently out of stock. If you don't want to wait, there are other deals for a 20.1" WS for $300-350)

Total: $881!

If you want to spend the extra $120, you could go dual-core. Following the same link for the other Opteron, you can get the Opteron 165 for $280 shipped. Since you just put gaming as your goal, I didn't think that the extra $130 would be worth it for dual-core. You could also go to 2GB of RAM, either buying 2 more sticks of 512 (which would be slower) or upgrading to 2 sticks of 1GB each for $135. You'll also need a cpu heatsink & fan, since that one doesn't come with one. I would recommend the Big Typhoon.

 

[Noubourne]

Wow. $1000. Talk about overkill.

This video card comes with a mobo. NF3 250. Hey, free is free. [rul=[url="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130275"]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130275[/url]]7800GS[/url]. More than enough for your CPU.

Frankly, I wouldn't touch the Dell XX07 models. Color banding. Bad mojo. Last one they made that I'd consider was the 2105 FP (based off the 1905FP tech, IIRC). I would recommend an S-IPS panel. They are great for gaming and have good color reproduction. A very inexpensive one (for such a quality panel), is the Viewsonic VX2025WM. I found one for like $350 at Newegg. Widescreen gaming monitor. Teh shizzle.

 

[Noubourne]

Actually, just do what Kalrith said.

 

[htmlmasterdave]

Are there any problems with the backlight on the Viewsonics? I was hearing that there are bright spots in the corners sometimes. Does it make more sense to spend more on a nicer monitor, if my only goal is for the performance to last about 16 months? One other thing, sounds like a dumb question, but does anyone know if Frozen Throne will run in the 16:10 ratio without being stretched?

Thanks for the responses and help btw

 

[kalrith]

Here's a review and several screenshots of the Viewsonic. I don't have any personal experience with it, so I can't say any more than you can find by doing a web search. Whenever I purchase my next monitor, I'll plan on keeping it for 5+ years (I've had my 19" CRT for longer than that). If you plan on doing the same, you could spend more on that and less on components that will be upgraded in 18 months. However, spending more doesn't always get you a better monitor. I don't know what the best 20" WS monitors are, so I can't make a recommendation there.

If no one else writes back about the Frozen Throne, I'll check when I get home (in 3-4 hours).

 

[htmlmasterdave]

Thanks, I'd appreciate it. I do want to keep my monitor for a while, so I'm leaning towards spending more on that. Outside of cost, does anyone have any thoughts regarding the Apple 20" Cinema display? (anandtech seemed to be overall quite positive about it)

 

[Noubourne]

Dude that 20" Viewsonic is quality from the reviews I've read.

As far as I can tell, the same LG 8-bit S-IPS panel is used on the Dell 2405FPW, the Apple Cinema Display, AND this Viewsonic VX2025WS that we've recommended. The difference appears to be mainly cost. Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Keep in mind Dell switched panels for the 2007 - so steer clear of that.

If there's a backlighting issue, you're probably not safe from it in the Apple or Dell, since they use the same panel. I've seen people say they notice it on an all-black screen, but nobody's said it was bad enough to warrant returning it or switching. Of course, these are other people's opinions. Check out the forum below for more.

For widscreen gaming infoz, check out http://www.widescreengamingforum.com A user there also has an in-depth review and many photos of the VX2025WS. Other threads have good reviews and personal experiences of other monitors too.

 

[htmlmasterdave]

Did they fix the fixed aspect ratio for newer nvidia cards yet?

 

[htmlmasterdave]

Hey guys, so I've been reading up and thinking about things, and I've decided that you are right and the VX2025WS is the LCD I should get. However, I'm torn as to what to do with my subsystem. (and videocard to a certain extent) So the 7900GT sure seems to be the best deal in that performance range, but I wanted to ask about the 6800GS and 7600GT? What do you guys think of those cards? The price difference would allow me to get a dual core. (side question.... would my enermax 465PE be ok for all this? =/)In terms of cpu and motherboard.... the 3700+ san diego seems to be a really good deal(or the 165 denmark for dual core). Multiplier is 11, which helps overclocking. (and I think people are saying it overclocks pretty well?) The last thing is whether or not I should buy an SLI capable board? (probably a waste if I don't need it right now?) I think basically the two best options are either a) 7900GT and 3700+(or other suggestion) or b) 6800GS/7600GT and dual core (both without SLI)

I know it's a complicated question, but I really appreciate the help!

EDIT: The mobo you suggested looks good, just considering the SLI models. I should also mention that basically my goal(in terms of performance for the next little while) is being able to play Day of Defeat Source really nicely at the native res for that display

 

[htmlmasterdave]

*bump*

 

[jaythespacehound]

I would definitely go for option a) in a gaming system.
The 3700+ is a very nice CPU from what I've read.

However, if you're planning on overclocking, the Opteron 146 is almost definitely the better overclocker.
At stock they would be about even I think so if you don't plan to overclock go with the 3700+

The 7900GT is a very nice card for the price.
To me SLI is just not necessary at the moment, and too costly to make it worth it.
This is all IMO though

 

[htmlmasterdave]

Well, my ram seems to not want to do a heck of a lot more than 250(maybe 265?) at decent timings.... would going to a different ratio from 1:1 hurt my performance enough that it wouldn't make sense? at 250 with the 3700+, I'd reach 2.75ghz... with the 146... we are only taking 2.5ghz. (I also want a reasonably quiet computer, so I don't plan to overclock too insanely )

I've been thinking about SLI... and I think you are right. It's probably a waste of money if I don't want to use it right away. I probably need a harddrive... do you guys think that raid-0 makes sense? (two 250gb drives really aren't that much)

 

[kalrith]

Running at a different ratio than 1:1 will not hurt your performance. That's actually what most AMD overclockers do. I'd have to spend a heck of a lot of money on RAM to run it at 276, but I wouldn't get enough of a performance boost to warrant the cost.

If gaming is the main goal of this system, then I would defintely choose option A over option B. I will second jay's recommendation and reasons to get the opteron 146 as well. With a 6800GS or 7600GT, your gaming performance won't be much different between a Venice 3000+ and an FX-60--it will be gpu-limited either way. I went dual-core with a lower-end video card, because I multi-task a lot, and I only game an hour or two every week.

Also, I wouldn't spend extra money to get an SLI mobo. Even if you wanted to pick up another 7900GT in a year, you'd be better off spending the money on a new single-slot video card and selling your 7900GT. It will most likely be faster than two 7900GTs, have better support for new features, and cost less (after selling your old card).

I can't comment much on raid-0, because I have no experience with it. If you're doing it for speed reasons, then IIRC I don't think the speed gains warrant the extra expense.

 

[htmlmasterdave]

Well, the only thing I really dislike about getting the opteron is that it forces me to spend about $50 on a cooling solution...(assuming I just use stock for the 3700). The cost for an a64 3700+ is $265 at ncix.com (i'm canadian) and the 146 is $287.... add a $50 cooler and that's $337... that's noticeably more. (almost lets me buy that second drive)

Reason I want raid for the most part is data security... most of my stuff is spread across multiple single drives, and if anything died, I'd be screwed. Raid array is nice because it basically takes no effort to use and is pretty reliable. I wanted to ask though, does it make it harder to install operating systems and the like? Or if I use the NF4 raid controller, does it pretty much appear as though it's one drive to the OS?

I really appreciate the help... I've been basically 100% out of the loop since I bought my current system about a year and a half ago... so this has all been a bit new. (also first LCD)

 

[kalrith]

With RAID 0 (aka striping) if one of your drives fails, then you're still screwed. I think what you want to do is RAID 1 (aka mirroring). You'd have all your data on both drives, so if one of them failed your data would still be intact.

BTW, Monarch ships to Canada. I used a currency converter to convert $159 US to CAD and came up with $177. Compared to $265 for the 3700 leaves you with $88 for a cooling solution. You can get a pretty good cooler for around $30 US, but I would go with the TT Big Typhoon for $47 US. It comes with the fan and is one of the best coolers out there. I added the Opteron 146 and Big Typhoon to the cart and estimated shipping to Toronto (I'm not sure where you are in Canada). The total price shipped would be $236 US or $262 CAD (assuming that the $60 off coupon still works). It's only $3 less than the price you gave for the 3700, but you'd have a better processor and an awesome heatsink and cooler. You mentioned that you don't want to have a loud system. With the Big Typhoon you'd be able to provide much better cooling at lower sound levels than the stock cooler.

 

[htmlmasterdave]

Oops yeah, I meant RAID 1, lol. My only worry then would be tarrifs? I remember getting hammered on some stuff shipped from the US before. I should have really looked at the cooler before saying that I didn't want a loud system. Clearly the 1300RPM fan will be quiet Also wanted to ask about the 144... it's only $200 at ncix (i'm checking out monarch in a minute)

BTW, I live near Toronto, so that shipping price should be pretty close.

 

[htmlmasterdave]

Also I just wanted to ask, I noticed something called SATA3G... what is this?

 

[kalrith]

Under Monarch's shipping estimation, there were two shipping methods, which were both $22. This is what they said:

U.S. Postal Service - Canada ONLY (No Brokerage Fees) ($22.00)
UPS - Canada ONLY (Additional Brokerage Fees Apply) ($22.00)

So, it looks like with the first choice you could get it shipped for $22 with no brokerage fees.

Here's a thread comparing the 144 to the 146. From what I read, it seems that they will both reach close to the same overclock, but it's easier with the 10x multiplier on the 146. Also, if they're relatively the same price, I'd go with the 146.

 

[kalrith]

Originally posted by: htmlmasterdave
Also I just wanted to ask, I noticed something called SATA3G... what is this?

That's SATA 2 which is supposed to run at 3GB/sec, compared to SATA 1 which is supposed to run at 1.5GB/sec. Here are some articles on SATA 2 at AT:

http://anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=2450
http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=2454

Some will say it doesn't matter which one you get. I personally got SATA 2 because it's newer technology, and it was about $5-10 more than SATA 1.