Update on Massachusettes ballot questions. Results of poll

[Painman]

#1: No, #2: Yes, #3: Not Sure.

#1: The City of Gloucester currently has some of the highest water service fees in the entire nation, because our shitty water pipes (built many, many years ago) were not up to code, and the city is trying to get ahead of daily fines that have been levied against it. Our busy thoroughfares have been torn up for months, in an effort to rectify the problem, our water has been tainted with silt and occasionallly unpotable for months, in an effort to try and rectify the problem, but yet the residents of Gloucester foot the lion's share of the bill for this reparation of shoddy work that likely took place before 98% of the city's residents were even living.

...And now, some group wants to send our property taxes shooting through the roof, on top of these fines we're trying to pay back (with interest)?

Our main industry (fishing) is faltering, we pay so fucking much more than the rest of the residents of the state for basic things like gasoline and groceries (because we're supposedy the "end of the line", even though we're a community of 30,000+). Shaw's and Stop & Shop are in a deathmatch for how much they can soak us for a half gallon of milk. That'll cost you $2.49-$2.59 in this town. Head 17 miles southwest down Rte. 128 to Danvers and go to their DeMoulas' Market Basket shop, it's $1.69.

This town is getting milked and bilked like nothing you've ever seen, and mostly by the supposedly wondrous "Free Market" (Free Market my ass... Shaw's and Stop & Shop fought DeMoulas' "encroachment" into this marketplace for years. For good reason -- It's a major Cash Cow for them.)

Anyway... Gloucester can't afford Question 1. Don't expect us to back it anytime soon.

#2: Simple. I don't care if someone wishes to be a casual user of marijuana, as long as it doesn't prevent them from being a productive member of society. Criminalization guarantees that they will be a drag upon society -- if they're caught and sentenced to jail time. Our jails are overflowing as it is. Jail cells are for serious offenders. Pot smokers simply don't offend me. They just dissapoint me... sometimes.

#3: I dunno. I'm a carnivore, so who the hell am I to put up a hue and cry over the exploitation of animals.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: alchemize
Makes sense that it will end up "No, no, yes". Mass is pretty much the epitome of a modern socialist state. Anything that invokes personal liberty is going to get shot down. People are too stupid to have freedoms.

Considering the history of MA, it is scary how far it has swung.

So how long have you lived in MA?

Am I only allowed to have an opinion on one state and ignore the other 49? Perhaps a law should be passed to address this!

Well you seem to have a pretty strong opinion of a place you've never been

The current leaning is "no, yes(which would be weird if they were against personal liberty), and maybe.

The second is because most MA folks think that the present laws are entirely too Draconian, and the last is because some people like dog racing, and some (like me) know how cruel it is. Maybe it doesn't have to be that way, but it is.

As far as income tax, no one loves it but MA depends on services. If the state suddenly found itself without income, essential services would cease. Just one example is snow removal. There isn't a private company large enough to deal with it, and the state would be entirely gridlocked without it. Yeah, "personal liberty" sounds great until you can't get to work. You then have the choice of not getting paid or not getting paid. Most people aren't in a position to afford the hypothetical advantages when confronted with day to day realities.

The alternative would be to jack up fees and sales taxes and property taxes, which are horribly regressive. It just won't work.

The notion that the left is for personal liberty is nonsense. The left grants personal liberties where there is something to gain and/or nothing to lose. Gay marriage is the prime example as Capt. Caveman points out. The left will gladly infringe on explicit personal liberties outlined within the constitution if it furthers their agenda (see property rights, gun ownership, free speech, etc.).

As for the tax base, Oregon gets lots of snow, yet manages to have zero income tax

Don't mistake this for defense of the right wing as they act much the same.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: alchemize
Makes sense that it will end up "No, no, yes". Mass is pretty much the epitome of a modern socialist state. Anything that invokes personal liberty is going to get shot down. People are too stupid to have freedoms.

Considering the history of MA, it is scary how far it has swung.

So how long have you lived in MA?

Am I only allowed to have an opinion on one state and ignore the other 49? Perhaps a law should be passed to address this!

Well you seem to have a pretty strong opinion of a place you've never been

The current leaning is "no, yes(which would be weird if they were against personal liberty), and maybe.

The second is because most MA folks think that the present laws are entirely too Draconian, and the last is because some people like dog racing, and some (like me) know how cruel it is. Maybe it doesn't have to be that way, but it is.

As far as income tax, no one loves it but MA depends on services. If the state suddenly found itself without income, essential services would cease. Just one example is snow removal. There isn't a private company large enough to deal with it, and the state would be entirely gridlocked without it. Yeah, "personal liberty" sounds great until you can't get to work. You then have the choice of not getting paid or not getting paid. Most people aren't in a position to afford the hypothetical advantages when confronted with day to day realities.

The alternative would be to jack up fees and sales taxes and property taxes, which are horribly regressive. It just won't work.

The notion that the left is for personal liberty is nonsense. The left grants personal liberties where there is something to gain and/or nothing to lose. Gay marriage is the prime example as Capt. Caveman points out. The left will gladly infringe on explicit personal liberties outlined within the constitution if it furthers their agenda (see property rights, gun ownership, free speech, etc.).

As for the tax base, Oregon gets lots of snow, yet manages to have zero income tax

Don't mistake this for defense of the right wing as they act much the same.

Speaking of Oregon, for a state with no income tax, why is it's state/local tax burden only .20 % lower than MA? http://money.cnn.com/pf/featur...bystate2005/index.html

Must be nice to have to pay higher property and local taxes to make-up for the income tax? Also note, that the link I provided shows WA has a higher tax burden than MA and it doesn't have a state income tax either. And sadly, WA sucks for providing services to it's citizens.

MA infringes on personal liberties outlined in the constitution? :laugh: Thanks for the laugh. Again, shows that you know nothing about the state.

 

[DarrelSPowers]

I really hope the decrim vote passes.

I think its a shame that similar laws have passed in NY but not Mass.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: alchemize
Makes sense that it will end up "No, no, yes". Mass is pretty much the epitome of a modern socialist state. Anything that invokes personal liberty is going to get shot down. People are too stupid to have freedoms.

Considering the history of MA, it is scary how far it has swung.

So how long have you lived in MA?

Am I only allowed to have an opinion on one state and ignore the other 49? Perhaps a law should be passed to address this!

Well you seem to have a pretty strong opinion of a place you've never been

The current leaning is "no, yes(which would be weird if they were against personal liberty), and maybe.

The second is because most MA folks think that the present laws are entirely too Draconian, and the last is because some people like dog racing, and some (like me) know how cruel it is. Maybe it doesn't have to be that way, but it is.

As far as income tax, no one loves it but MA depends on services. If the state suddenly found itself without income, essential services would cease. Just one example is snow removal. There isn't a private company large enough to deal with it, and the state would be entirely gridlocked without it. Yeah, "personal liberty" sounds great until you can't get to work. You then have the choice of not getting paid or not getting paid. Most people aren't in a position to afford the hypothetical advantages when confronted with day to day realities.

The alternative would be to jack up fees and sales taxes and property taxes, which are horribly regressive. It just won't work.

The notion that the left is for personal liberty is nonsense. The left grants personal liberties where there is something to gain and/or nothing to lose. Gay marriage is the prime example as Capt. Caveman points out. The left will gladly infringe on explicit personal liberties outlined within the constitution if it furthers their agenda (see property rights, gun ownership, free speech, etc.).

As for the tax base, Oregon gets lots of snow, yet manages to have zero income tax

Don't mistake this for defense of the right wing as they act much the same.

Speaking of Oregon, for a state with no income tax, why is it's state/local tax burden only .20 % lower than MA? http://money.cnn.com/pf/featur...bystate2005/index.html

Must be nice to have to pay higher property and local taxes to make-up for the income tax? Also note, that the link I provided shows WA has a higher tax burden than MA and it doesn't have a state income tax either. And sadly, WA sucks for providing services to it's citizens.

MA infringes on personal liberties outlined in the constitution? :laugh: Thanks for the laugh. Again, shows that you know nothing about the state.

I can control my sales tax, and (somewhat) my property tax. I can't control my income tax. edit: duh, I had OR and WA switched...OR no sales tax, WA no income tax. WA has a lower overall tax burden.

Are you aware of MA's gun control laws versus VT's? Check back with me after you google.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: alchemize
Makes sense that it will end up "No, no, yes". Mass is pretty much the epitome of a modern socialist state. Anything that invokes personal liberty is going to get shot down. People are too stupid to have freedoms.

Considering the history of MA, it is scary how far it has swung.

So how long have you lived in MA?

Am I only allowed to have an opinion on one state and ignore the other 49? Perhaps a law should be passed to address this!

Well you seem to have a pretty strong opinion of a place you've never been

The current leaning is "no, yes(which would be weird if they were against personal liberty), and maybe.

The second is because most MA folks think that the present laws are entirely too Draconian, and the last is because some people like dog racing, and some (like me) know how cruel it is. Maybe it doesn't have to be that way, but it is.

As far as income tax, no one loves it but MA depends on services. If the state suddenly found itself without income, essential services would cease. Just one example is snow removal. There isn't a private company large enough to deal with it, and the state would be entirely gridlocked without it. Yeah, "personal liberty" sounds great until you can't get to work. You then have the choice of not getting paid or not getting paid. Most people aren't in a position to afford the hypothetical advantages when confronted with day to day realities.

The alternative would be to jack up fees and sales taxes and property taxes, which are horribly regressive. It just won't work.

The notion that the left is for personal liberty is nonsense. The left grants personal liberties where there is something to gain and/or nothing to lose. Gay marriage is the prime example as Capt. Caveman points out. The left will gladly infringe on explicit personal liberties outlined within the constitution if it furthers their agenda (see property rights, gun ownership, free speech, etc.).

As for the tax base, Oregon gets lots of snow, yet manages to have zero income tax

Don't mistake this for defense of the right wing as they act much the same.

Speaking of Oregon, for a state with no income tax, why is it's state/local tax burden only .20 % lower than MA? http://money.cnn.com/pf/featur...bystate2005/index.html

Must be nice to have to pay higher property and local taxes to make-up for the income tax? Also note, that the link I provided shows WA has a higher tax burden than MA and it doesn't have a state income tax either. And sadly, WA sucks for providing services to it's citizens.

MA infringes on personal liberties outlined in the constitution? :laugh: Thanks for the laugh. Again, shows that you know nothing about the state.

I can control my sales tax, and (somewhat) my property tax. I can't control my income tax. edit: duh, I had OR and WA switched...OR no sales tax, WA no income tax. WA has a lower overall tax burden.

Are you aware of MA's gun control laws versus VT's? Check back with me after you google.

No, WA has a higher tax burder than MA. Did you look at my CNN Money link? I used to live in WA. Sales tax of 8.75+%, fees(auto,etc) triple, higher property taxes, fee'd to death(ie. have to pay for trash removal). Excise tax of 1.75% compared to .5% in MA, so when I sold my house I had to pay $6k more than if I had sold it in MA. So, what's your point again?

If MA eliminated it's state income tax, sales tax would now include food and clothing. Thus, the poor would be forced now to shoulder more of a burden than they currently do. Statistics show that the rich would get richer and the poor would become poorer.

My brother lives in MA, has a firearms permit and owns a gun. I could do the same. What's your point again?

fwiw - from the link I showed, VT has the 6th highest tax burden in the country. Yet receives the 7th highest amount of Federal Aid - http://www.census.gov/compendi...atab/ranks/rank22.html

Yet, VT has a higher % of their population living below the poverty level - http://www.census.gov/compendi...atab/ranks/rank34.html

I'd worry about your own state then complain about MA.

edit - looks like if anything, MA needs tighter gun laws about children firing automatic weapons - http://www.boston.com/news/nat...=Well_MostPop_Emailed6

 

[alchemize]

Smoke up, it passed. :thumbsup: