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UPDATE: Ford Flex vs. Minivan....FIGHT! Hail the victor...Sienna SE

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The one thing I don't like about the Flex is that it lacks sliding doors. Kids are entirely too careless about swinging doors open into other cars, sliding doors make it really difficult to door check the car in the next parking space.
 
vi edit said:
It's actually going to be me. I've got half the commute as her now and she'll start driving the old beater malibu that was hers previously. It gets 30 on the highway which is an improvement over the 20 she's seeing right now.
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You sure? Every wife I've ever known is going to be driving that Flex OR in very short order making an appeal to upgrade the Malibu. I guess what I'm saying is I have never known a healthy married couple in which the man was not driving the older vehicle. I know you said your commute is shorter but that's how it is.

Sliding doors are great, kids will hit things particularly in a tight garage or parking lot. All manageable, though. It comes down to whether you want a used flex or a new or almost new Sienna. Don't buy a Sienna older than 2011, though, so basically you're stuck buying new. They are unbelievably cavernous inside, though, you could fit a flex in one. But they are a minivan, you can forget anything you know about driving. They are an appliance and nothing more.
 
kornphlake said:
The one thing I don't like about the Flex is that it lacks sliding doors. Kids are entirely too careless about swinging doors open into other cars, sliding doors make it really difficult to door check the car in the next parking space.
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And those doors are massive.
 
Turin39789 said:
Cmax? gives you choice of sliding doors or not.

Downside:not available yet.
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I had a Mazda5 while ago, and loved it. I'd go with that over the C-Max if I had to choose. While I'd still consider a Mz5 again, I want something a little bigger and able to haul/tow more than the Mazda did. Plus I want a little more room up front. The Mazda worked, but it was a bit tight. And the 3rd row was more there for show than anything useful.

The complaint I have about the fullsize "mini"vans is that you can't get the higher end options without also paying for the power doors. I haven't seen a power door that I liked. They always seem slow to open/close and almost every one has a number of comments from buyers about having to get them repaired at least once or twice.

That's one thing I loved about the Mazda5. Those doors were light and slid open/close with the flick of your hand.
 
vi edit said:
I had a Mazda5 while ago, and loved it. I'd go with that over the C-Max if I had to choose. While I'd still consider a Mz5 again, I want something a little bigger and able to haul/tow more than the Mazda did. Plus I want a little more room up front. The Mazda worked, but it was a bit tight. And the 3rd row was more there for show than anything useful.

The complaint I have about the fullsize "mini"vans is that you can't get the higher end options without also paying for the power doors. I haven't seen a power door that I liked. They always seem slow to open/close and almost every one has a number of comments from buyers about having to get them repaired at least once or twice.

That's one thing I loved about the Mazda5. Those doors were light and slid open/close with the flick of your hand.
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it's funny that the mazda5 is considered a 'mini' minivan despite being bigger than the original dodge caravan.
 
ShawnD1 said:
Fuel economy is directly proportional to how gay it looks. A very gay looking minivan with a V6 still gets better gas mileage than a 4 cylinder truck 😉
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The best 2011 v6 minivan gets 19/28 = 22 combined. A ford ranger I4 gets 22/27 = 24 combined.

Fleabag ShawnD1 wins again
 
vi edit said:
I had a Mazda5 while ago, and loved it. I'd go with that over the C-Max if I had to choose. While I'd still consider a Mz5 again, I want something a little bigger and able to haul/tow more than the Mazda did. Plus I want a little more room up front. The Mazda worked, but it was a bit tight. And the 3rd row was more there for show than anything useful.

The complaint I have about the fullsize "mini"vans is that you can't get the higher end options without also paying for the power doors. I haven't seen a power door that I liked. They always seem slow to open/close and almost every one has a number of comments from buyers about having to get them repaired at least once or twice.

That's one thing I loved about the Mazda5. Those doors were light and slid open/close with the flick of your hand.
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but the ecoboost is coming! the ecoboost is coming!

I was excited when I first heard about the Cmax, then realized it was just a Mazda5 and never really loved the 5. Maybe a Taurus or a minivan, I'm too young to drive an SUV.
 
My wife had a Flex as a rental a while back. She really liked the way it drove for its size, and even she (as a non techie) was impressed by Sync and the bluetooth integration. I think it's definitely the best "minivan alternative" out there given your wants/needs.
 
Well, there might actually be a Swagger Wagon in my future. Drove one today and really liked it. Toyota is obviously cutting back on the fit & finish, but from a design and enjoyable drive standpoint the Sienna SE is superb...for a minivan.

It's not as polished as the Flex, it's not as techy as the Flex, and it doesn't quite have the same "geek" vibe to it..but the Swagger Wagon is about as cool as it gets for a minivan. Looking a Pre-dawn metallic one. It drives much, much smaller than it actually is, has great steering feedback and just feels good under hand and foot. Again...for something of it's mass. Toyota really has it dialed in.

The 2nd row in it is easily described as...HUGE. I could almost stretch my legs out straight when my wife was driving and it was a decent seat. Not quite to the comfort of the Flex, but leg room was actually better. And there's simply no comparison between room behind 3rd row and then again with the 3rd row down. Hell...I think there's actually more room behind the 2nd row in the Sienna than there is with all seats down in the Flex.

It's certainly not as tricked out tech wise as the flex but it's actually more engaging to drive...if that's possibe for a Van.

And you just can't beat the sliding doors for kid access in and out of it...which is something that I've valued from the start, just wasn't sure how much I valued.

Finance rates are dirt cheap right now. 2.7% from local credit union for new cars so it's not that much more to finance a bit more for a new Sienna over a used Flex.

Tough call...but I'm thinking that I'm going to have something like this in my garage in the next few weeks:

http://blogs.insideline.com/roadtests/2011_toyota_sienna_r34_day3_beach_sebastian.jpg
 
Turin39789 said:
The best 2011 v6 minivan gets 19/28 = 22 combined. A ford ranger I4 gets 22/27 = 24 combined.

Fleabag ShawnD1 wins again
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nope, you can't use EPA mileage. i tried that before and everyone said LOL EPA IS WRONG LOLOLOL
(it was in the 4wd gas mileage thread)
 
Because shawn you cherry pick data
You only show HW if it wins but ignore overall and city mileage and a Prius eats a VW diesel for lunch in city mileage and if thats all you do for driving . . .

One of the reasons why I like fuel economy.gov I can tailor the type of driving I do and expected fuel costs and make an informed choice from that
 
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The Flex looks awesome. Buy the Flex.

Despite calling it a "swagger wagon" to try to fool yourself, you will still be emasculated when you drive the Toyota.
 
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Throckmorton said:
The Flex looks awesome. Buy the Flex.

Despite calling it a "swagger wagon" to try to fool yourself, you will still be emasculated when you drive the Toyota.
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Or empowered knowing he puts little stock in a sense of self-worth defined by whether he's shuttling his family around in a minivan or a less effective minivan that pretends it's not a minivan because it doesn't have sliding doors.

This is why I said earlier 2011+ Sienna. It's a nice looking vehicle and can house a stadium in it. This decision really is based on how practical you are. If you are eminently practical, want to cart the family around and visiting relatives and still fit cattle in the back you'll get the Sienna. I see you preferred how it drove, but when you're looking at large vehicles like this drive-ability is of little concern anyway, since they are just appliances.

Option 1 is a used Ford and Option 2 is a new, larger Toyota with little cost difference.
 
Doppel said:
Or empowered knowing he puts little stock in a sense of self-worth defined by whether he's shuttling his family around in a minivan or a less effective minivan that pretends it's not a minivan because it doesn't have sliding doors.

This is why I said earlier 2011+ Sienna. It's a nice looking vehicle and can house a stadium in it. This decision really is based on how practical you are. If you are eminently practical, want to cart the family around and visiting relatives and still fit cattle in the back you'll get the Sienna. I see you preferred how it drove, but when you're looking at large vehicles like this drive-ability is of little concern anyway, since they are just appliances.

Option 1 is a used Ford and Option 2 is a new, larger Toyota with little cost difference.
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Yeah yeah, self worth blah blah. But why would you choose a frumpy minivan over a stylish Flex?
 
Throckmorton said:
Yeah yeah, self worth blah blah. But why would you choose a frumpy minivan over a stylish Flex?
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The reasons are explained above in this thread and you've already read them, why ask again?

To decry talk of self-worth and yet your own reason stated so far to get the Flex is because it's not "emasculating" or "frumpy" is highly inconsistent.
 
Rule #1: Wife knows best.

Get the new Sienna. You'll make the wife happy, and I guarantee you'll love it.
 
I've got a three year old and plan to have another shortly. If you've had young kids and a van you understand the pure win of the sliding doors. My biggest problem with the bigger vans always was the steering and feeling behind the wheel. It's got nothing to do with looks. It always has been about comfort and enjoyment combined with utility. I've owned a GTI, a Mazda 3 hatch, Mz5 van, Malibu Maxx and a Passat Wagon in the past. They all eschewed conventional styling and volume sales for the sake of utility, comfort and driving enjoyment compared to their peers.

The Sienna SE is similar to that. It is actually a pleasant to drive vehicle compared to it's brethren. And it is more enjoyable to drive than the Flex although by no means as luxurious.
 
Toyota dealer let us take the Sienna SE out for a couple hours today and really put it through the paces.

A couple quick impressions....

- The 2nd row is cavernous. Truely cavernous. If I slid my daughters seat back all the way she was in a different area code.

- It's not quite as vaultlike as the Flex but still very good. And the ride was very, very smooth without being a marshmallow. Excellent damping.

- Feels like the bigger, meaner and MUCH more powerful version of my old Mazda 5.

- Dig the power rear hatch and backup cam.

- Still think it's a cool looking van 🙂

- Much more powerful than you would expect. No contest between this and the non-boosted Flex.
 
I got a 2011 sienna last august. Love it. Briefly thought of the flex as well. Don't regret the van at all. Sliding doors with the kids is awesome. Easy to bring all our gear + grandmas along on trips.
 
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