*Update* for DMCA Black Friday : Walmart officially sue FW, F@tWallet Strikes Back Using DMCA..

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: isaacmacdonald
What's especially funny is that none of these black friday sales offer anything exceptional (other than a few run of the mill Free CDs AR). I'd say the WD120JB deal @ dell was hotter than any of the black friday deals. Bah. Corporate america sucks.

I don't think you guys get it yet . . . the REASON the retailers don't want you to know their advance sales THIS year is that they are SO crappy.

 

[erikatcuse]

It made CNN Headline News this morning.

 

[DealMonkey]

FYI, Wired.com has a news story on the so-called DMCA violations...

(Sung to the tune of The Village People's YMCA, by request)

Holy crap, there's no ads to go round...
I said, cheap RAM, there's none left for you clowns...
I said, deal man, cause we run this damn town...
There's no escape from our lawyers...

It's fun to sue with the D.M.C.A.
It's fun to sue with the D.M.C.A.

 

[Salvador]

This country belongs to corporate america ... so just shut up and OBEY .. anyone who doesn't, is a terrorist

That's right.. Expect more of this to come because of all of the Aholes that voted Republican.

Sal

 

[BooneRebel]

Originally posted by: Salvador

This country belongs to corporate america ... so just shut up and OBEY .. anyone who doesn't, is a terrorist

That's right.. Expect more of this to come because of all of the Aholes that voted Republican.

Sal

I think that it's already been brought up that Clinton signed the DMCA, not a Republican.

 

[Karsten]

Welcome... to the future "Land of the 'not so' free"!

 

[Wildcats]

Do you really think that Clinton knew what he was signing? Maybe he did, if there was a $$ kickback. Those that voted for the law either knew the $$ reward, or were too stupid to understand what they were signing for.

Time for hushmail and steganography? Even with that, John Ashcroft will get your passphrase with a bit of arm twisting and the right chemicals induced into your body.......

 

[isaacmacdonald]

I don't think you guys get it yet . . . the REASON the retailers don't want you to know their advance sales THIS year is that they are SO crappy.

You're probably right. If their deals didn't suck ass, free advertising on the net would have people lining up 4hrs before they opened. "Free advertising" when it's to their advantage, "Copyright infringement" when people let the shabby, ugly cat called truth out of the bag.

No need to boycott anything. If you guys want to stick it to the companies, just keep working hard, tricking CSRs into giving ridiculous undercost PMs and adding on all those coupons. VIVA mispriced/rebate PMs!!

 

[SitePromoter]

i heard they sent out legal notices and said to have the stuff removed by 5pm today or face LEGAL ACTIONS.

lets boycott walmart..

 

[KeyserSoze]

Originally posted by: Cleaner
Well I just did my part. I sent a politely worded email to all the companies involved (walmart, bb, staples, officemax, and target). Here it is:

I am writing to you today in regards to your company's stance on the DMCA notices given to many 'deal' sites on the Internet. I feel that your company is wrong to force these sites to remove your 'black Friday' ads or references to such. This is free advertising that could make the difference of whether or not a consumer decides to shop at your store that day or not. In fact your use of the DMCA in this instance is unsound and not warranted. As a result of your company's actions I will not be shopping at your store this holiday and afterwards. I will shop at your competitor's stores who are not so repressive of our 1st amendment right to the freedom of speech. Thank you for your time.

Write to these companies and tell them the same. Only in numbers can we make a difference.

GOOD IDEA. As son as I get home, they are going to get a polite, intelligent email telling them just exactly how much a$$ they suck
No, for real. A polite email is effective. Come on people, we can only work in numbers here.



KeyserSoze

 

[Oaf357]

Yes, this is pretty much horse dung.

Sad thing is is that it's the law. However, we can write our politicans (from the bottom up, mayor to president). It probably won't do any good but, the need for me to save money outweighs the need for me to abide by such frivolous laws.

 

[Wildcats]

Actually, I get a real non-form-letter response from about 50% of the letters that I write to my senators and representatives. Try it. http://www.house.gov and http://www.senate.gov

If you don't write. Don't complain. VOTE next time and tell your friends to vote!!!

In the meantime, everything you send will be recorded by Carnivore and Echelon.

 

[baaaad]

DUMB MOVE...

Pardon me if I'm repeating, here - Like in so many situations, I'm amazed at how dumb people can be, showing ZERO foresight about the eventual consequences of their actions. Instead of simply acknowledging the dirty-little-secret that a relatively small number of people have advance notice of sales (and that there is really no way to completely plug the leak,) Officemax (or whoever else is bitching) has managed to elevate this to headline news on CNN, making everyone in the world aware of (and seeking to benefit from) it. DUH -

 

[pcstuff]

Originally posted by: mechsiah
My personal understanding is as follows:

- There would be no copyright violation to post a message that said "I heard that Best Buy is going to sell X for $xx.xxx". This information would be considered "common".

- Posting a scan or large portions of a scan or LINKS (by DMCA) to such scans would be a violation of copyright law.

- I believe the stores would argue that the information contained in their ads are proprietary until the point of publication, and the disemination of that information negatively impacts their business in the form of financial losses. The argument is weak, and may not make it past summary judgement, BUT, it is not frivilous.

For those taking shots at anandtech, keep in mind that certain decisions are not up to the site owner, but are up to the Service Provider themselves. While I agree that this is a misuse of the law and that someone should stand up to them, that takes MONEY. While I'm sure Anand is doing well for himself, this battle is probably not worth it.

On the bright side, there are things we can do, but they require some resolve. It is easy to whine and b!tch about how this is wrong anonymously on the forum, but it is a much greater thing to DO something. Write a letter- not an email - a letter, explaining to the above mentioned stores that you disagree with them, that you would like an explanation, and that you have serious doubts about whether you want to spend any of your holiday money at their store.

Remember- all they care about is money, so hit them where they hurt. Be polite, be clear, and be truthful. Discourage your friends and family from buying from these outlets, and call and write the stores on a regular basis INFORMING them of the business they are losing. Send them copies of receipts of things you have purchased from other stores. That will get their attention.

Sorry this is so long.

Mechsiah

(PS- This is all PERSONAL, not legal, information.)

Not to offend anyone, but this is the first intelligent post I've read on this topic so far...

 

[dirtrat]

That's right.. Expect more of this to come because of all of the Aholes that voted Republican

OMG, Its FLAMERS like you who start crap like this who should be banned from these forums. You obviously know that this will start some crap in this thread. I would think that a Diamond member who had over 3000 post would know better but obviously that doesn't seem to matter any more!

 

[Miramonti]

Originally posted by: dirtrat

That's right.. Expect more of this to come because of all of the Aholes that voted Republican

OMG, Its FLAMERS like you who start crap like this who should be banned from these forums. You obviously know that this will start some crap in this thread. I would think that a Diamond member who had over 3000 post would know better but obviously that doesn't seem to matter any more!

And actually it was the Democrats fault for NOT turning out to vote.


anyhow.....Black Friday has just turned into KISS MY @SS FRIDAY now, I'm not going to these stores. :|

 

[flocinocinihilipilification]

here's the life cycle of a corporation:

small ->growing ->medium->growing->big->growing->bigger->growing->greedy->growing->more greedy->enron->following examples->worldcom->wal-mart-> and so on

 

[Ziptar]

This story made National Public Radio was on All Things Considered.

Sneak Peak

NPR's Jim Zarroli reports that some of the nation's best-known retailers are upset that their holiday pricing plans are showing up on the web. Target, Best Buy and others are asking websites that have been posting the information to take it down immediately. Shoppers interested in knowing ahead of time what stores are going to be charging for hot items have been using the data to plan their purchases. Retailers are threatening the websites with legal action if they don't comply. (3:30)

The audio for this program will be available online after 10PM ET, 6PM PT.

They interviewed Tim Storm from F@twallet and a Woman (Lawyer) who said that the Retail Chain were incorrectly invoking the DMCA.

 

[alkemyst]

The deal is this, whether or not DMCA is binding on this matter is not the point, the point is it's being used to intimidate webmasters and it is working. These corporations, much like Microsoft, can pull someone into court and it will cost the person money, sure it might get thrown out of court....but it's going to cost big bucks to defend.

It sucks, I am figuring we are going to start seeing monopolies and price fixing on the rise.

I love America, but everyday I am hearing new things we are doing that's making that love fade.

 

[TheDon]

TechTV is going to do a piece on this Thursday, 11/21. I think the show is The Screen Savers. They also mention FW.

article

 

[Justus]

Seems that the internet is subject to more restrictive standards than print media. I get the Washington Post Sunday ads early Saturday morning, along with the regular Saturday paper. I routinely get "advance" information on BB, CC, OD, OM and ChimpUSA. Can't wait for DCMA to be applied to newspapers!!!! Is this progress????

 

[T2T III]

I didn't see a mention of this is the threads that I've read through, but today's print edition of the Wall Street Journal had a good article on this issue. Anandtech was mentioned - as was a notation that one of our members here worked for Home Depot, but was fired after posting some prices on upcoming deals. Also, Fattwallet and DealofDay.com along with Techbargins were mentioned in the article. I wonder how much their hit counts jumped for the day after getting some free advertising??

Basically, the article breaks the issue down into two parts:

1) Retailers are scared that their competitors will see what they are offering, then quickly adjust their sales strategies to match their offerings.

2) Retailers are worried about consumers buying patterns changing. People will buy the items in advance, then return for a price adjustment on the day the sale hits.

Frankly, the Black Friday sales are about the only sales of the year that are even worth looking into. However, I don't care to arrive 2 hours early and wait in lines to save a few bucks, so I don't participate in these sales. The typical weekly sales are nothing to write home about. So what if Best Buy is selling a mouse for $10 less than the competion, we'll just have their competitor price match BB and get the mouse anyways. Plus, a lot of the items that get posted in the regular weekly sales circulars are not always sales items. BB, Circuity City and the Micro-Center are known for filling the circular with items that are of regular price and no discount is being offered.

I think retailers will never win this battle. Prices will continue to be leaked unless the CEO sleeps on the price lists personally - but then how will the newspapers get the information to print the ads in time?

If you think about it, some of our best deals were those that have been put together over in the Hot Deals forum. Some very talented members have found ways to stack coupons, use Ebates, price-match competitors - or whatever to create some fantastic bargains. How can the retailers get their grips around these issues? They can't because as soon as they squash one deal, another will quickly pop up to replace it.

Retailers need to understand how the Internet works. Some are E-tailers and have electronic store fronts that they run parallel to their brick and mortar stores. However, there's another side of the Internet that they're not fully aware of. That side is the one like Hot Deals, FattWallet, etc. where people huddle around to find the best bargains possible.

Meanwhile, let the retailers try and get their circulars under control - I won't use the circulars because like many of you, we have other means of finding our deals.

 

[hkssupra69]

do you know why this is BS? corporate america was built on one upping the competitor by slashing prices and using cutthroat tactics to drive the other business out of competition. eg. Microsoft, DSL companies, etc. So now that a company finds that their competition can beat them out, they use this stupid law that doesn't even apply to them to try to stop the business machine called Corporate America?? Are you kidding me? This is so hypocritical, they would do anything to drive their competition out to make a dollar and when these companies see their own weaknesses on a message board like this they pay their lawyers to COLLUDE and keep their prices up. It just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Oakenfold]

Originally posted by: Salvador

This country belongs to corporate america ... so just shut up and OBEY .. anyone who doesn't, is a terrorist

That's right.. Expect more of this to come because of all of the Aholes that voted Republican.

Sal

Bah!
DMCA is not necessarily Republican oriented.
It's about corporate America abusing a law.

 

[prenatal]

Following Cleaner's lead, I sent Wal*mart this message on their contact website:
Walmart Stores Online Feedback Form

Wal*mart has generated an incredible amount of bad will from me this week, and I consider myself previously an extremely loyal customer spending hundreds per week at many Wal*marts, Sam's Clubs, SuperCenters and Neighborhood Markets in the local area. I am writing to you today in regards to your company's incorrect usage of the DMCA in notices given to operators of many internet 'deal' sites. I feel that your company has made a poor decision to force these sites to remove your 'Black Friday' ads or references to such. I believe your decision to discourage advance notice of your sales prices in such manner in an effort to stem competitors from reacting quicker to your prices and possible slower sales of sales items just prior to Black Friday *cannot* equal the lost sales due to the bad will from such a non-consumer oriented action. Your reference of the DMCA in these notices are a misuse. As a result of your company's actions, on "Black Friday", 11/29/2002, I plan to shop only at competing stores who value my customer relationship over protecting your poorly-construed "copyrights". I will also curtail my shopping of your stores afterwards and will encourage and educate family and friends of this blatantly consumer-unfriendly policy. You are fighting your own customers, which cannot be an enhancement to shareholder value. If you desire, I can provide recent purchase receipts of Wal*mart, Sam's Club, SuperCenters, and Neighborhood Markets to prove the depth of my previous customer relationship with your corporation. Please reconsider your position on this matter in the future or be accountable for continuing lost sales.