*Update* 6-way nForce2 Roundup Online

Page 8 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Palek

Senior member
Jun 20, 2001
937
0
0
Well said about Dolby Digital and EAX, Odeen.

I was a little surprised by the final verdict of the review. I expected the Abit board to win at least in one of the two categories, and it did not even get a mention as a runner-up. Was I the only person most impressed by the NF7-S?

It basically includes all the same features as the ASUS board except for the second LAN (which 99.999% of users will not utilize anyway). Even though the FSB of the NF7-S is clocked the lowest it still comes out on top in a large number of the benchmarks and stays near the top in the rest (the difference is negligible anyway so I personally do not care about it, but others might). It runs rock-solid even at high FSB and memory speeds. Plus Abit lets you to use the standard nVidia drivers. Both the Asus and the Chaintech boards will give you trouble with that. Plus you get a serial-parallel converter so you can have 5 IDE devices to boot.

How about Abit's fabulous three-phase power circuitry and the AT12V connector? This is most certainly a future-proof motherboard. I might be wrong, but from the pictures it seems the Asus board only has a two-phase circuit. While I do not doubt Asus quality, I do also know that Abit makes excellent quality boards and arguably the best quality power solutions as well.

As for the positioning of the ATX power connector, everybody keeps complaining (reviewers included) when they see it right below the CPU, but most forget to mention what Lost Circuits (or some other site, not sure) pointed out some time ago - that is, if the goal is to create a board with clear signals and as little interference as possible, right below the CPU power circuitry is EXACTLY where the power connector should be. I might not remember correctly, but I think the reason is that if the ATX connector is placed way off on the right (on the edge across the DIMM slots) the board makers have to run power to the CPU through long, wide traces on the PCB. Considering the amount of power sucked up by today's CPU's, these traces generate pretty powerful EM fields, therefore a lot of interference as well, and we all know that interference is synonymous with instability and possible system failures. In the end I think Abit has picked the ideal spot for the ATX connector. So you have to put a little effort into routing the wires in a way that does not restrict airflow - big deal! If you own a decent PSU, you will have a long enough cable to play around with, so routing should not be a problem anyway.

Not to mention the fact that right now the Abit board can be had for 25 dollars less than the Deluxe Asus board. <EDIT>In Japan, that is.</EDIT>

I will be getting myself another Abit board, I guess. :) My KT7-RAID will retire in honour.
 

lionelleo

Junior Member
May 9, 2002
2
0
0
<I>"Remember that the nForce2 APU only acts as a DSP, final sound quality is still greatly determined by the DAC (Digital to Analog Converter) in the ALC650 AC'97 codec."</I>

Can we assume then the sound quality will be sucky say compared to an audigy/santa cruz?

So why pair the powerful Soundstorm APU to Realtek? (Cheap? !)


 

GullyFoyle

Diamond Member
Dec 13, 2000
4,362
11
81
Originally posted by: TheTechnique
Anyone know how to disable the auto-raid check on the Asus A7N8X Deluxe? Normally you can disable the bios autoscan if you are not using a RAID setup... It's a pain to wait 10 seconds evry time I reboot...

There is a jumper on the motherboard to disable the SATA ports, if you're not using them at all...
 

Odeen

Diamond Member
Aug 4, 2000
4,892
0
76
Originally posted by: lionelleo
<I>"Remember that the nForce2 APU only acts as a DSP, final sound quality is still greatly determined by the DAC (Digital to Analog Converter) in the ALC650 AC'97 codec."</I>

Can we assume then the sound quality will be sucky say compared to an audigy/santa cruz?

So why pair the powerful Soundstorm APU to Realtek? (Cheap? !)


Indeed. At least when you buy a regular motherboard where the crappy ALC650 is paired to the wimpy AC'97 sound, you don't feel bad about disabling it altogether and popping in your sound card. With an nForce, it seems like an utter waste of a southbridge to do that.. :(

On the other hand, the regular MCP, with no firewire, no Soundstorm and no 2nd NIC makes for a kickass "basic" motherboard. Faster then the KT400, no Realtek-made chips (aside from the PHY for the network, but that's only a "physical layer" (i.e. the chipset actually does the networking, the PHY sends it over the wires. Another PHY could conceivably use fiber-optics or even wireless without changing the chipset implementation), and no Via chipset crapulence.


 

Toymaker

Member
Jul 9, 2002
192
0
0
Great review, Evan. Thanks. My next AMD board will likely be the Epox 8RDA+. Nice board that overclocks well with nice features. When it comes time for me to upgrade, hopefully Epox will have a bios that will allow me to overclock a 400Mhz Barton.
 

OverclockTHIS

Member
Nov 23, 2002
51
0
0
Is it just me, or do all the boards suck ass except for the Asus one...as it locks the PCI bus. I'm sure Abit one doesn't or it wouldn't be unstable at high fsb...Who knows about the Epox...I'm sure it doesn't either.

How are people planning to run 200mhz Bartons without PCI locks?

I still say Asus is the king...they know how to make a mean assed motherboard. Rest of 'em can go in the garbage can.
 

SFang

Senior member
Apr 4, 2001
655
0
0
Too bad I already unlocked my Tbred_B 2400+, now I only get the highest multiplier of 12.5X. According to Evan, the motherboard will unlock the factory locked 2400+ by itself. I will just have to remove the copper wire from my CPU, and try test it again, see if I can get the 13X, 14X from this baby. :)

Evan, have you tried 13X, 14X on 2400+ from this board? Thanks.
 

Parja

Member
Dec 20, 2000
85
0
61
Originally posted by: OverclockTHIS
Is it just me, or do all the boards suck ass except for the Asus one...as it locks the PCI bus. I'm sure Abit one doesn't or it wouldn't be unstable at high fsb...Who knows about the Epox...I'm sure it doesn't either.

How are people planning to run 200mhz Bartons without PCI locks?

I still say Asus is the king...they know how to make a mean assed motherboard. Rest of 'em can go in the garbage can.

Uhh, what? He was only able to get to 185MHz FSB with the Asus...average for the group of boards reviewed. What makes you think the PCI bus is locked/unlocked compared to the rest of the boards?
 

soltrain

Senior member
Mar 25, 2001
452
0
0
I'm still depressed about my IDE Raid. Now i gotta go pick up a separate raid controller. All these boards come with the same "dual-DDR" feature providing 128 bandwidth.. correct? It's built into the nforce2 structure? .. as there is no integrated graphics on this version of the chip, what is the point of all the extra memory bandwidth if the CPU can only handle about 2 of the 6 gig coming down the pipe? Can it be utilized in other places?
 

kadajawi

Senior member
Dec 29, 2000
549
0
0
lol, its comparable to this tube board by AOpen... wow, look, we use a tube (together with a ALC650... *lmao*). All crap... I mean, hell, how much will a good to very good DAC cost? Well, I'm pretty sure a few users would be ready to pay for it... Why can't we get sound like on this card: http://www.digit-life.com/articles/maudioaudiophile/index.html combined with all those fancy EAX, A3D and whatsoever features for a payable price? Hmpf... might consider buying a KT400 then aswell (where are the differences? Ok, so the NForce has a good NIC... any other things? Oh, its a bit faster... wow... but I can feel it costs much more here). The only really interesting thing on the NForce to me was the on-board sound...
 

Killrose

Diamond Member
Oct 26, 1999
6,230
8
81
So I take it all these boards will handle the new Barton core CPU's when they show-up?
 

Insane3D

Elite Member
May 24, 2000
19,446
0
0
While I do not doubt Asus quality, I do also know that Abit makes excellent quality boards and arguably the best quality power solutions as well.

Abit board production is outsourced to ECS...they don't make their own boards.

:)
 

AbRASiON

Senior member
Oct 10, 1999
861
4
81
Originally posted by: Palek
Well said about Dolby Digital and EAX, Odeen.

I was a little surprised by the final verdict of the review. I expected the Abit board to win at least in one of the two categories, and it did not even get a mention as a runner-up. Was I the only person most impressed by the NF7-S?

It basically includes all the same features as the ASUS board except for the second LAN (which 99.999% of users will not utilize anyway). Even though the FSB of the NF7-S is clocked the lowest it still comes out on top in a large number of the benchmarks and stays near the top in the rest (the difference is negligible anyway so I personally do not care about it, but others might). It runs rock-solid even at high FSB and memory speeds. Plus Abit lets you to use the standard nVidia drivers. Both the Asus and the Chaintech boards will give you trouble with that. Plus you get a serial-parallel converter so you can have 5 IDE devices to boot.

How about Abit's fabulous three-phase power circuitry and the AT12V connector? This is most certainly a future-proof motherboard. I might be wrong, but from the pictures it seems the Asus board only has a two-phase circuit. While I do not doubt Asus quality, I do also know that Abit makes excellent quality boards and arguably the best quality power solutions as well.

As for the positioning of the ATX power connector, everybody keeps complaining (reviewers included) when they see it right below the CPU, but most forget to mention what Lost Circuits (or some other site, not sure) pointed out some time ago - that is, if the goal is to create a board with clear signals and as little interference as possible, right below the CPU power circuitry is EXACTLY where the power connector should be. I might not remember correctly, but I think the reason is that if the ATX connector is placed way off on the right (on the edge across the DIMM slots) the board makers have to run power to the CPU through long, wide traces on the PCB. Considering the amount of power sucked up by today's CPU's, these traces generate pretty powerful EM fields, therefore a lot of interference as well, and we all know that interference is synonymous with instability and possible system failures. In the end I think Abit has picked the ideal spot for the ATX connector. So you have to put a little effort into routing the wires in a way that does not restrict airflow - big deal! If you own a decent PSU, you will have a long enough cable to play around with, so routing should not be a problem anyway.

Not to mention the fact that right now the Abit board can be had for 25 dollars less than the Deluxe Asus board. <EDIT>In Japan, that is.</EDIT>

I will be getting myself another Abit board, I guess. :) My KT7-RAID will retire in honour.



Sounds like you have convinced yourseld the abit is good due to being a previous abit fan.
Personally the Asus sounded much better to me.
NOTE: I've been stung by Abit's marketing B/S before so perhaps I'm opinionated also - just the other way.

One thing is certain, Abit is NOT the be all and end all of mobo manu's - at one time they had a big enthusiast following, they lost some of that and I don't think they've ever struck too hard with OEM's like ECS or Asus has.

Not to say ABIT is totally horrible, but they've certainly scared some people away over the years.
(yep, I was shocked to first hear people complain about ABIT about 18 months ago, I too was a total "ABIT IS GOD" user and surprised by negative comments towards them..... - however, when I delved deeper into it - and got stung myself I saw the error of my ways and avoided them since)
 

Insane3D

Elite Member
May 24, 2000
19,446
0
0
I find it mildly amusing watching people post endless numbers, specs, and articles to justify how good or how bad the sound quality is of something without actually listening to it first....

rolleye.gif
 

Killrose

Diamond Member
Oct 26, 1999
6,230
8
81
I just noticed Newegg raised the price of the Epox from $118 yesterday to $128 today.
Thanks Anandtech :(
 

AbRASiON

Senior member
Oct 10, 1999
861
4
81
Abit board production is outsourced to ECS...they don't make their own boards.

:)

That's only for some boards, not all their boards - there's a recent interview which covers that - can't recall where I saw it, try AMDzone.com maybe.





I find it mildly amusing watching people post endless numbers, specs, and articles to justify how good or how bad the sound quality is of something without actually listening to it first....

rolleye.gif



Well,... I kind of agree with you, however...........

www.r3mix.net is an mp3 site which delves DEEP into the quality myths of mp3's and advises the best method of acheiving the best sound.
By ripping an original song, then performing an analasys on the song giving a graphical representation of the music.
THEN doing the same thing to an mp3 and comparing the graphs - you can see the difference - so sometimes numbers and what not can mean a lot.

As far as I'm personally aware DD 5.1 should be 24bit 48khz (not 96, I was incorrect)
Assuming it's correctly compressed it should sound better than CD audio.
and even if it's "5% worse" mathematically based on missing data or some such, I still intend to have a kick ass 5.1 setup of speakers / dd receiver which should make up somewhat for the apparent "shitty sound"

Plus I'll be getting sweet loving from my directional sounds in Doom 3, while others will be claiming that it sucks - so be it.

As for beleiving in HTRF or whatever it is.

If you place a speaker to your left side, of course you WILL hear some of it on your right side - little, but some.
There is no possible way to "magically" make it only go in the left ear.
That's B/S and cobblers - and half the reason I didn't like A3D and Eax for the directional claims they made from 2 speakers (rubbish)
As long as my speakers are correctly placed, I *WILL* be hearing monsters in D3 coming from all directions with or without some "fancy lies (whoops technology) which magically sends the signal only to the relevant ear..........."

 

AbRASiON

Senior member
Oct 10, 1999
861
4
81
Originally posted by: Killrose
So I take it all these boards will handle the new Barton core CPU's when they show-up?


They in theory should because they do 400mhz fsb, but the whole 3 phase power marketing FUD from Abit might come true this time (unlike last time)
 

lionelleo

Junior Member
May 9, 2002
2
0
0
Originally posted by: Insane3D
I find it mildly amusing watching people post endless numbers, specs, and articles to justify how good or how bad the sound quality is of something without actually listening to it first....

rolleye.gif

well there's plenty of reviews of motherboards with the integrated REALTEK ALC650 SOUND CHIP, and the consensus is that the sound quality is nothing to write home about.

It just seems such a pity that the MCP-T's powerful DSP cannot be partnered with a decent DAC.



 

kadajawi

Senior member
Dec 29, 2000
549
0
0
yep, even paired with a tube amp (on the AOpen board) the ALC650 seems to sound... urghs (and the tube should mask quite a bit).
 

Soulkeeper

Diamond Member
Nov 23, 2001
6,736
156
106
those boards sucked
i expected some of them to atleast hit 220mhz fsb speeds stable
none of them even hit 200

why did the review use 300watt psu's
i hope that wasn't limiting him..

i'm waiting for KT400a or whatever VIA's next product will be named
 

Mangler

Senior member
Jun 10, 2002
633
0
0
Insane3D,

we've always been on the same side with many issues, but you are really wrong on the ABIT NF7 being outsourced for production. I even checked into it and they make it themselves.

Just remember Abit's NF7 has the three-phase power circuitry and the AT12V connector, which might be needed in the future.

The only thing I don't like about the ABIT review is how the processors were under rated. But as a final note to my little soap box post here why does the ABIT lead or come in top 3 on almost all benchmarks with the lowest clock speed? Seems to me the NF7 has the most untapped potential here.

Anyone else agree?
 

Killrose

Diamond Member
Oct 26, 1999
6,230
8
81
Originally posted by: Soulkeeper
.....

why did the review use 300watt psu's
i hope that wasn't limiting him..

i'm waiting for KT400a or whatever VIA's next product will be named

I agree, if that's true that was a serious mistake especially for any overclocking. In fact, it might be cause to throw-out the whole reveiw.

 

First

Lifer
Jun 3, 2002
10,518
271
136
Originally posted by: Killrose
Originally posted by: Soulkeeper
.....

why did the review use 300watt psu's
i hope that wasn't limiting him..

i'm waiting for KT400a or whatever VIA's next product will be named

I agree, if that's true that was a serious mistake especially for any overclocking. In fact, it might be cause to throw-out the whole reveiw.

Actually no, it wouldn't. Notice we tried to max out the FSB of each board (8X multipliers), not the core clock speed. If anything, the PSU might experience less load.
 

Killrose

Diamond Member
Oct 26, 1999
6,230
8
81
Ok, maybe that throw-out the whole reveiw thing was a little harsh, and I realize that most people around here get a little crazy with thier PSU purchases in Watts, but even 300watts in a stock AMD system has got to be near the edge I would think.
 

OverclockTHIS

Member
Nov 23, 2002
51
0
0
Originally posted by: Parja
Originally posted by: OverclockTHIS
Is it just me, or do all the boards suck ass except for the Asus one...as it locks the PCI bus. I'm sure Abit one doesn't or it wouldn't be unstable at high fsb...Who knows about the Epox...I'm sure it doesn't either.

How are people planning to run 200mhz Bartons without PCI locks?

I still say Asus is the king...they know how to make a mean assed motherboard. Rest of 'em can go in the garbage can.

Uhh, what? He was only able to get to 185MHz FSB with the Asus...average for the group of boards reviewed. What makes you think the PCI bus is locked/unlocked compared to the rest of the boards?

Well if you weren't such an utter moron and actually read - straight from the review.

"For this question we headed over to ASUS and asked them what was going on. ASUS's response was simply that they have a PCI bus lock set at 33MHz and that you have nothing to worry about as far as running your devices out of specification while performing FSB overclocking."




Again, I ask others who are more technically savvy...how can people run 200mhz Barton without increasing the PCI clock?

Personally, I think AMD has been screwed big time here by the major manufacturers...apart from Asus.