Upcoming iPhone to have new dock connector, 19pin vs 30pin

[Mopetar]

As far as the article goes, I've yet to see anyone back up their claims that the proprietary connector eliminates the need for additional software and hardware overhead to use external accessories compared to standard connectors.

It's not going to eliminate the need for additional software or hardware, but it vastly simplifies it. How hard is it to understand that it's a lot easier from the device's perspective to realize that pin X is live and that means we pump out audio, rather than USB pin Y is live, but now we need to figure out what the hell it wants us to do?

In the first case, all of the necessary drivers, hardware accelerators, or other software are already in place on the device for a number of different common use cases. If you want to use any of those, they're easy to do because you don't need to reinvent the wheel in order to do it.

 

[Anubis]

umm something strange is going on

 

[Anubis]

What do you mean by streaming media doesn't stream over BT well? It works flawlessly for me with my Galaxy Nexus and SYNC, maybe that is just a flaw with iOS devices.

steaming music over 3g/4g and then rebroadcasting that over BT is what i meant. i have an android device and this is problimatic. and before you ask why i would do that is because i dont store music on my phone as it has crap for storage space like all phones

and no docking it is no different then simply plugging it in, except one is slightly neater depending on the dock, and the issue i mentioned above

 

[QueBert]

Explain this please, it doesn't sound logical.

You have one cable, and on one end of the cable it has a magically 30 pin connector, that part I understand.

But what the hell does the other end of the cable look like, if you can plug it into the wall, into a TV's hdmi port, into an aux audio port, into an rca plug, or into a computer usb or firefire all at the same time? I just can't imagine what single cable could possible do that.

The other end's like an octopus with a bunch of connectors. Doesn't look as nice, but I'm fine since it's single cable that does everything. There was no such solution for Android, and honestly the audio out thru a 30 pin sounds worlds better than any 3.5 cable using a headphone jack.

 

[Munky]

It's not going to eliminate the need for additional software or hardware, but it vastly simplifies it. How hard is it to understand that it's a lot easier from the device's perspective to realize that pin X is live and that means we pump out audio, rather than USB pin Y is live, but now we need to figure out what the hell it wants us to do?

In the first case, all of the necessary drivers, hardware accelerators, or other software are already in place on the device for a number of different common use cases. If you want to use any of those, they're easy to do because you don't need to reinvent the wheel in order to do it.

The same is true for USB. The phone already supports USB mass storage mode, which means you plug it it, and the OS handles the rest based on established protocols. No need to reinvent anything.

If you want to send audio, then you simply use the 3.5mm audio connector, again following established protocols, in which case USB is not even in the picture.

In either case all the necessary functionality is built into the phone. However, the article claims using the proprietary connectors saves on processing hardware, which is starting to look increasingly bogus.

 

[Phynaz]

Incorrect. There's an industry standard for just about every form of data transmission. For audio there's 3.5mm, for video there's HDMI, and for digital data there's USB, WiFi, and Bluetooth. Incidentally, my phone has all of those.



See my post above. I'm not limited to only micro USB, but you're still limited to whatever Apple decides is good for you.

USB for digital audio data....What's the standard for that?

See, you are refusing to see the point.

 

[Phynaz]

Lol, for starters, I can use my phone on any GSM carrier without having to hack or jailbreak it. And just a few basic functions people have been able to do for decades, like browse the file system, use expandable storage, and set the alarm tone to any audio file on the system.

None of which has anything to do with the iPhone dock connector.

 

[QueBert]

The same is true for USB. The phone already supports USB mass storage mode, which means you plug it it, and the OS handles the rest based on established protocols. No need to reinvent anything.

f you want to send audio, then you simply use the 3.5mm audio connector, again following established protocols, in which case USB is not even in the picture.

In either case all the necessary functionality is built into the phone. However, the article claims using the proprietary connectors saves on processing hardware, which is starting to look increasingly bogus.

Audio sounds substantially worse over a 3.5mm audio connector than it does a cable using the 30 pin apple connector. The difference is night and day. That would be a case where the established protocol, with the exception of a rare device that has a built in headphone amp isn't really suitable. Well for anything besides some sh*tty headphones any ways. Also with USB while the connector's standard, the cables aren't. When I'd use my GF's USB car charger my phone thought it was a data cable and it wouldn't charge for sh*t. So every time I went somewhere with her I ended up having to bring my car charger to fix that. USB isn't as cut and dry universal as you make it out to be.

 

[Phynaz]

Except you can't actually plug the 30 pin connector directly into any devices, and you need to buy additional converters.

What are you talking about? There's about a bazzilion things an iPhone connects to. Including my car for one.

 

[Munky]

USB for digital data....What's the standard for that?

See, you are refusing to see the point.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_mass-storage_device_class
Here's one widely used standard you might have heard of.

 

[Phynaz]

You can't. I don't see why I'd want to, since the image quality takes a nosedive compared to modern video connectors, and the max resolution is low.

Translation:
"I don't do it that way therefore your argument is invalid"

You really don't understand what you sound like, do you?

Tell me, have you ever designed a device that was meant to be used as a phone extension? Such as a dock, or remote control?

Tell us why the article on why the dock connector is a good thing is wrong, instead of going off the deep end on another anti-Apple rant.

 

[Phynaz]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_mass-storage_device_class
Here's one widely used standard you might have heard of.

Sorry, but I don't see anything about audio there, could you point it out to me?

 

[Munky]

Audio sounds substantially worse over a 3.5mm audio connector than it does a cable using the 30 pin apple connector. The difference is night and day. That would be a case where the established protocol, with the exception of a rare device that has a built in headphone amp isn't really suitable. Well for anything besides some sh*tty headphones any ways. Also with USB while the connector's standard, the cables aren't. When I'd use my GF's USB car charger my phone thought it was a data cable and it wouldn't charge for sh*t. So every time I went somewhere with her I ended up having to bring my car charger to fix that. USB isn't as cut and dry universal as you make it out to be.

That's either the phone's fault, or the acessory's fault. There's nothing about the 3.5mm format itself that degrades sound quality, unless you're using 100ft long extension cables or something. How is it that people managed to connect high end headphones to 3.5mm jacks and not throw them down in disgust?

 

[Phynaz]

That's either the phone's fault, or the acessory's fault. There's nothing about the 3.5mm format itself that degrades sound quality, unless you're using 100ft long extension cables or something. How is it that people managed to connect high end headphones to 3.5mm jacks and not throw them down in disgust?

3.5mm jack = audio out.

Dock connector = line out.

Big, big difference.

 

[QueBert]

That's either the phone's fault, or the acessory's fault. There's nothing about the 3.5mm format itself that degrades sound quality, unless you're using 100ft long extension cables or something. How is it that people managed to connect high end headphones to 3.5mm jacks and not throw them down in disgust?

a headphone jack won't have the same audio quality unless it's amped, don't believe me go look it up. I'm not making sh*t up here. There are a few weirdo devices that have a built in headphone amp, but even those it tends to never be that good. Why do you think so many people buy headphone amps? Why do you think those amp's are required for most higher end headphones to sound good? I promise anyone who has some truly high end headphones and connects them without a headphone jack will throw them down in disgust. Either that or they'll go online bitching how their $350 cans sound worse than the $10 JVC ones they had before.

 

[Munky]

Translation:
"I don't do it that way therefore your argument is invalid"

You really don't understand what you sound like, do you?

Tell me, have you ever designed a device that was meant to be used as a phone extension? Such as a dock, or remote control?

Tell us why the article on why the dock connector is a good thing is wrong, instead of going off the deep end on another anti-Apple rant.

Sorry, but I don't see anything about audio there, could you point it out to me?

Are you done trolling? Why the f*** would I want to transfer audio over USB when there's a perfectly working 3.5mm audio connector that's been used to transfer audio long before the first iGadget ever hit the shelves? Think before you post.

 

[Munky]

a headphone jack won't have the same audio quality unless it's amped, don't believe me go look it up. I'm not making sh*t up here. There are a few weirdo devices that have a built in headphone amp, but even those it tends to never be that good. Why do you think so many people buy headphone amps? Why do you think those amp's are required for most higher end headphones to sound good? I promise anyone who has some truly high end headphones and connects them without a headphone jack will throw them down in disgust. Either that or they'll go online bitching how their $350 cans sound worse than the $10 JVC ones they had before.

So are you saying the iphone has an audio amp when connected using the 30-pin connector? Or is it that you're transmitting audio digitally when using the 30-pin connector, therefore it serves the same purpose as transmitting data digitally over USB, and has nothing to do with audio signal quality?

 

[Chiropteran]

What are you talking about? There's about a bazzilion things an iPhone connects to. Including my car for one.

Yeah and my droid connects to my car just fine without a 30 pin connector as well. My GF has an iPhone, and it certainly doesn't plug into our HD TV with it's 30 pin connector. Sorry, you can't fit an hdmi cable into that 30 pin socket, it just doesn't fit. It doesn't plug directly into the car either, without an extra connector or using bluetooth.

I fail to see what the 30 pin brings to the table that isn't easier to do without- UNLESS you add extra hardware, such as a dock or some proprietary cable- which defeats the whole point about "oh the 30 pin connector is magical and doesn't require additional computer hardware!".

 

[QueBert]

So are you saying the iphone has an audio amp when connected using the 30-pin connector? Or is it that you're transmitting audio digitally when using the 30-pin connector, therefore it serves the same purpose as transmitting data digitally over USB, and has nothing to do with audio signal quality?

I'm saying audio out isn't as good. This isn't audio engineering class but if you want to know why it's better look up audio out vs line out. With the exception of having a dedicated headphone amp, line out will always sound better. And even then audio out won't necessarily always sound better, it will just be louder.

And no the iPhone doesn't have an audio amp, but it doesn't need one as line out plays the raw signal, which means no processing (which is always done with audio out) It's how the audio's suppose to sound, while it might not be as loud as audio out (depending on the device) it will sound better. If all you want is loudness, than 3.5mm by all means. When you want the cleanest sound you go for line out.

Yeah and my droid connects to my car just fine without a 30 pin connector as well. My GF has an iPhone, and it certainly doesn't plug into our HD TV with it's 30 pin connector. sorry, you can't fit an hdmi cable into that 30 pin socket, it just doesn't fit. It doesn't plug directly into the car either, without an extra connector or using bluetooth.

I fail to see what the 30 pin brings to the tablet that isn't easier to do without- UNLESS you add extra hardware, such as a dock or some proprietary cable- which defeats the whole point about "oh the 30 pin connector is magical and doesn't require additional computer hardware!".

And sorry, you can't fit an HDMI cable into a phone either, Micro HDMI? sure, but that add's another cable which you're vehemently against.

 

[Phynaz]

Are you done trolling? Why the f*** would I want to transfer audio over USB when there's a perfectly working 3.5mm audio connector that's been used to transfer audio long before the first iGadget ever hit the shelves? Think before you post.

Again, what's the standard for that? Are you saying there is an dock for your phone that fits every other phone from your phones manufacturer?

There isn't and you know it.

 

[Phynaz]

Yeah and my droid connects to my car just fine without a 30 pin connector as well.

Does your car have a dock connector for your Droid that moves the controls to the steering wheel? So that your Droid integrates with your existing car audio system?

No, it doesn't.

Anyway the article was about how it made it easier for hardware designers. Are you a hardware designer? Do you have any facts to dispute the article?

 

[Mopetar]

In either case all the necessary functionality is built into the phone. However, the article claims using the proprietary connectors saves on processing hardware, which is starting to look increasingly bogus.

It does. That's why there are a lot of stereo receivers that allow you to dock an iPod and then use the stereo remote to control the iPod.

If you wanted to do that over USB you'd need to write your own drivers. Even assuming that you wanted to do that, you'd need to deal with differences across dozens to hundreds of different devices with different ways of doing things and it would be a support nightmare. Another alternative would be to make your own app and require that it be installed on the device, but even then there's going to be compatibility issues and maintaining it for future devices.

 

[QueBert]

Does your car have a dock connector for your Droid that moves the controls to the steering wheel? So that your Droid integrates with your existing car audio system?

No, it doesn't.

Anyway the article was about how it made it easier for hardware designers. Are you a hardware designer? Do you have any facts to dispute the article?

To be fair, I think 2 car stereos do exist that have Android integration.

 

[Munky]

I'm saying audio out isn't as good. This isn't audio engineering class but if you want to know why it's better look up audio out vs line out. With the exception of having a dedicated headphone amp, line out will always sound better. And even then audio out won't necessarily always sound better, it will just be louder.

And no the iPhone doesn't have an audio amp, but it doesn't need one as line out plays the raw signal. It might not be as loud as audio out (depending on the device) but it will sound better. If all you want is loudness, than 3.5mm by all means. When you want the cleanest sound you go for line out.

So, again, the difference is due to the underlying circuitry sending the signal, and not the connector itself. My Logitech z5500 is connected to a Xonar D2 using 3 sets of 3.5mm cables, which work perfectly fine.

 

[Chiropteran]

Does your car have a dock connector for your Droid that moves the controls to the steering wheel? So that your Droid integrates with your existing car audio system?

No, it doesn't.

Yes it does, except it does it one step better- I don't even need to dock my phone. It'll work in my pocket. This amazing technology called bluetooth, it's a standard and it just works, no need for buying an overpriced apple licensed product to support it.

Anyway the article was about how it made it easier for hardware designers. Are you a hardware designer?

Oh good, an appeal from authority logical fallacy. We aren't experts in the field, so we can't discuss it. Nice try.

Look, that is a BS argument because the thing which they claim to make "easier" was already being done.

It's like, uh Apple, we already have a way to plug a device into a stereo, been doing it for 20 years, what is easier than plugging in a single cable?

Apple: We have a new special magical 30 pin cable that is even easier than ever before to plug in! This will save you so much money! By the way, you need to give us $5 per connector in licensing fees, this is all for the best!