Upcoming court case could soon "crush" the ACA entirely

[Jhhnn]

Well yeah, but with this stubborn Republican controlled House that refuses to roll over, play dead and kowtow to our King, what exactly is she to do? Count her millions?

238 years it took for freedom from tyranny to a group running the government that has us very close to the restoration of tyranny.

Chicken Little with the usual bitter conservatard persecution complex.

Very touching. Did some big bad liberal give you some bad touching when you were little? Are you ashamed that you liked it?

That would explain everything.

 

[Engineer]

With how well the government manages everything else, that will be a sad day indeed.

Note: I'm not arguing for or against the principals of Single Payer itself, I argue that our government is too damn incompetent to implement and manage a Single Payer healthcare system. Until they have a proven track record that shows otherwise, I don't want them managing my healthcare under any circumstances.

Regardless, they are the only one that can, and WILL, make it happen. Just a matter of time now. The private system has already proven time and time again and fewer people are going to be covered and at higher and higher costs. The government may or may not fix that but it's coming. You can bank on it.

 

[thraashman]

Well yeah, but with this stubborn Republican controlled House that refuses to roll over, play dead and kowtow to our King, what exactly is she to do? Count her millions?

238 years it took for freedom from tyranny to a group running the government that has us very close to the restoration of tyranny.

It is remarkable how often you come up with something that makes me realize you're even dumber than I previously thought. At this point I'd honestly be surprised if you could dress yourself.

 

[theeedude]

Obamacare is the last chance for employer provided health care. There is a reason it's originally a Republican idea. Back when Republicans had brains, they understood that if they didn't do something like individual mandate with government subsidies of private plans (AKA Obamacare), we would eventually end up with universal single payer plan.

 

[nehalem256]

Meaning...strike down the ACA and it will lead to full out single payer at some point, only sooner than later. At this point, it's inevitable.

What makes you think that the ACA being struck down due to Democrats' incompetence would lead to single payer?

Seems to me like it would be an argument against single payer.

 

[Zodiark1593]

Regardless, they are the only one that can, and WILL, make it happen. Just a matter of time now. The private system has already proven time and time again and fewer people are going to be covered and at higher and higher costs. The government may or may not fix that but it's coming. You can bank on it.

Damned if we do (Liberal), damned if we don't (conservative)? I think this sentiment sums things up our politics quite nicely.

At any rate, let's see what SCOTUS decides before we throw up the alarms that Single Payer is coming.

 

[Engineer]

Damned if we do (Liberal), damned if we don't (conservative)? I think this sentiment sums things up our politics quite nicely.

At any rate, let's see what SCOTUS decides before we throw up the alarms that Single Payer is coming.

I don't think that matters at all, other than timing. I think the ACA was set up as the precursor to single payer and with all of the bickering going on and the number of people who are not really being covered, enough discontent will eventually push it that way. The US will be just the last one to do so, big insurance lobby or not.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Regardless, they are the only one that can, and WILL, make happen. Just a matter of time now. The private system has already proven time and time again and fewer people are going to be covered and at higher and higher costs. The government may or may not fix that but it's coming. You can bank on it.

It will be interesting to see how things shake out but so far I'm as impressed with government understanding and regulatory ability as you are with your boss and 100hr work weeks.

 

[glenn1]

Maybe we'll get single payer in our lifetimes. Hopefully so since it's one more way that responsible, health-minded people in states with high cost of living will directly subsidize people whose political views they despise. Why not just save time and every progressive just go hand out a a couple hundred $100 bills at the GOP convention, concentrating on the delegates from the deep south states. Because even if single payer does come, you can bet any amount of money the care provided in inner cities is going to suck ass. Just like public schools in the inner city.

 

[theeedude]

Maybe we'll get single payer in our lifetimes. Hopefully so since it's one more way that responsible, health-minded people in states with high cost of living will directly subsidize people whose political views they despise. Why not just save time and every progressive just go hand out a a couple hundred $100 bills at the GOP convention, concentrating on the delegates from the deep south states. Because even if single payer does come, you can bet any amount of money the care provided in inner cities is going to suck ass. Just like public schools in the inner city.

That makes no sense. Inner city hospitals have problems because of large number of uninsured getting unreimbursed care. Exactly the problem a single payer system would address. Once it is addressed, inner city hospitals will actually have economy of scale advantages, because they can amortize fixed costs and equipment investments over a larger number of insured customers.
I would be more worried about what happens to rural hospitals in the South, especially if their elected Republican politicians don't expand Medicaid, or manage to work with the courts to block tens of billions of federal dollars through exchange subsidies.

 

[Attic]

I get that it's a minute chance of dealing a death blow to Obamacare. 0.0000000025% IMO.


I know that there's some hold out to see this as, "So you're telling me there's a chance?!!!"

But no way, no how.

Single payer still coming one way or another.

 

[Strk]

I don't think that matters at all, other than timing. I think the ACA was set up as the precursor to single payer and with all of the bickering going on and the number of people who are not really being covered, enough discontent will eventually push it that way. The US will be just the last one to do so, big insurance lobby or not.

I think the most annoying part is that not all developed countries have single-payer, but they do have government options. While countries like Canada and the UK have single-payer, Germany and Japan don't, yet they spend so much less than us.

Add to that though is that our system needs so much more reform than just the insurance (education, malpractice insurance, pharmaceuticals).

 

[Jhhnn]

It will be interesting to see how things shake out but so far I'm as impressed with government understanding and regulatory ability as you are with your boss and 100hr work weeks.

Be sure to tear down the govt every chance you get, disregarding completely all the things the do reasonably well.

 

[Jhhnn]

Maybe we'll get single payer in our lifetimes. Hopefully so since it's one more way that responsible, health-minded people in states with high cost of living will directly subsidize people whose political views they despise. Why not just save time and every progressive just go hand out a a couple hundred $100 bills at the GOP convention, concentrating on the delegates from the deep south states. Because even if single payer does come, you can bet any amount of money the care provided in inner cities is going to suck ass. Just like public schools in the inner city.

This is America. We are a generous people who take care of our own, despite the bitter ideological ravings of people who think we should do otherwise. That includes places with widespread mental illness & delusions of the lost cause- even Mississippi, where they get 2X as much as they pay in federal taxes, where nearly half the state budget is federal money & where they hate de gubmint.

It's tempting to just give them what they want, but the suffering of innocents would weigh upon our consciences.

 

[Jhhnn]

I get that it's a minute chance of dealing a death blow to Obamacare. 0.0000000025% IMO.


I know that there's some hold out to see this as, "So you're telling me there's a chance?!!!"

But no way, no how.

Single payer still coming one way or another.

It's the same chance that Birtherism might be true, That fast & furious was directed from the White House, that Issa will ever get to the bottom of Benghazi or the IRS scandal as if he ever intended to do so. But it's what they want to believe, so they do. It's truthiness.

Notice how the raving shifts focus- "It'll never work! We'll all be fucked to death! It's unconstitutional! Kill it in the crib!" When none of that turns out to be true, we get pissiness from religious freaks & perpetual sniping from the pit of defeat- " That's technically incorrect according to our warped interpretation! You didn't cross every T & dot every I! Throw it out! Oh God! Disaster lurks just around the corner!"

Shorter version- Hate-um Obama! Hate-um!

 

[WelshBloke]

I think the most annoying part is that not all developed countries have single-payer, but they do have government options. While countries like Canada and the UK have single-payer, Germany and Japan don't, yet they spend so much less than us.

Add to that though is that our system needs so much more reform than just the insurance (education, malpractice insurance, pharmaceuticals).

I think that the main problem that you're going to have to overcome is that half your population seem to want whatever solution the other half comes up with to fail.

They won't try to make the best of it, they will trash it and watch it burn while dancing in the flames and blaming the other guy.

Any big scheme like a national health care solution is, at a minimum, going to need most people to want it to work not want it to fail because it was someone else's idea.

 

[Engineer]

I think that the main problem that you're going to have to overcome is that half your population seem to want whatever solution the other half comes up with to fail.

They won't try to make the best of it, they will trash it and watch it burn while dancing in the flames and blaming the other guy.

Any big scheme like a national health care solution is, at a minimum, going to need most people to want it to work not want it to fail because it was someone else's idea.

Ding...Ding...Ding...we have a winner!!!

 

[theeedude]

I think that the main problem that you're going to have to overcome is that half your population seem to want whatever solution the other half comes up with to fail.

They won't try to make the best of it, they will trash it and watch it burn while dancing in the flames and blaming the other guy.

Any big scheme like a national health care solution is, at a minimum, going to need most people to want it to work not want it to fail because it was someone else's idea.

Actually, our GOP wants solution that their half came up with to fail, just because the other half wants it to succeed. Individual mandate with subsidies is a Republican solution proposed by the conservative Heritage foundation as an alternative to universal single payer that the Democrats were pushing for. So you are underestimating the dysfunction in our politics emanating from the GOP.

 

[boomerang]

Actually, our GOP wants solution that their half came up with to fail, just because the other half wants it to succeed. Individual mandate with subsidies is a Republican solution proposed by the conservative Heritage foundation as an alternative to universal single payer that the Democrats were pushing for. So you are underestimating the dysfunction in our politics emanating from the GOP.

Pull the string sticking out of your neck and the same shit comes out every time. Get a new shtick.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

I fail to see how a court overturning the ACA due to Democrats incompetently writing the law is bad for Republicans?

Seems to play right into their narrative really. That the Democrats passed a shitty bill.

It's a political problem for the Republicans because it means that our politicians and citizenry will be forced to confront the problem of our disastrous health care system again. (It's not that it isn't already a problem we need to deal with, but at this time it isn't front page news.) The Democrats will be perceived as at least having tried to do something with the Republicans standing in the way and offering zero solutions other than, "Don't get sick, and if you do get sick, die quickly". I would not be at all surprised if the Republican leadership is secretly hoping that this case just disappears and goes away.

If anything, it plays into the Democrats hands if the ACA gets overturned. They can say, "We tried to improve our health care system, but the Republicans want the lower classes to suffer and die and the Republicans openly support having the world's most expensive and inefficient health care system."

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Be sure to tear down the govt every chance you get, disregarding completely all the things the do reasonably well.

Irrelevant.

 

[Anubis]

Meaning...strike down the ACA and it will lead to full out single payer at some point, only sooner than later. At this point, it's inevitable.

moving to full on single payer is what we should have done in the first place

 

[Engineer]

moving to full on single payer is what we should have done in the first place

At this point, I would agree.

 

[glenn1]

moving to full on single payer is what we should have done in the first place

Why don't we just have the hospitals mail the bills for everyone without insurance to those who support single payer?

Oh I forgot, like taxation they'll just say it's a "collective action problem." They can only do things when they (and everyone else) are forced to, never voluntarily or pre-exemptively.

 

[Jhhnn]

It will be interesting to see how things shake out but so far I'm as impressed with government understanding and regulatory ability as you are with your boss and 100hr work weeks.

Be sure to tear down the govt every chance you get, disregarding completely all the things the do reasonably well.

Irrelevant.

Hardly. It speaks to attitude & intent.

If the voters won't select Repubs to run the govt, they'll be damned if they let anybody else do it well. They'd rather just tear it down.