Up Grading From 9800 pro.... what now?

[RussianSensation]

Originally posted by: hans030390
upgrading.....get a card with Shader model 3.0 support....that is ONLY with the Geforce 6xxx series...so i recommend anything between 6600gt and 6800gt.

SM3.0 WILL be needed to play any next gen games correctly, so any x800 card won't cut it for future proofness, UNLESS you plan on upgrading soon.

SM3.0 will be needed to play next gen games the way developers intended the game to look. Now mind you, I can still play HL2 with high details at 800x600 with smooth frames and DX8.1 features and it looks better than any console game to date. So it's not a "hard" requirement to have SM3.0 or even DX9.0 to play a videogame. Most of the water effects in Far Cry and effects in Splinter Cell: Chaos are still make using simple PS1.1 shaders!!! (ie. DX8.0)

The problem is... no current videocard will be able to use SM3.0 effectively. ANY current game that even tries to use SM3.0 to the fullest brings 6xxx series to their knees. Until you provide 1 valid benchmark saying otherwise, your opinion is just that...an opinion. If you plan on playing Chronicles of Riddick and Splinter Cell: chaos theory with SM2.0++/SM3.0 features in a slideshow mode, be my guest. Ppl should just remember once and for all: Next generation features only become useful for next generation games when post-current generation videocards come out. Ie. DX9 features are only useful with 2nd generation DX9 cards, SM3.0 will only be useful with 2nd generation SM3.0 cards. History will only repeat itself....

There is no card between 6600GT and 6800GT that X800XL cannot beat. Recommending 6600GT because of SM3.0 over 16 pipelines X800XL solution is just....i dont even have the word to describe this recommendation.

And humey, no amount of SM3.0 support and driver improvement will ever compensate for 128-bit memory interface and 8 pipelines of the 6600GT over 256-bit 16 pipe X800XL.

 

[Creig]

cecco - As you've already found out, SM3.0 is just a slight performance boost. And HDR is an improved lighting technique, but turns smooth playing video games into slide shows unless you're running a 6800U or fast SLI setup.

Wow! The performance impact is just unbelievable and is more than 50%. High dynamic range requires tremendous memory bandwidth and quite some additional computing power from graphics processor and its memory subsystems, even high-end graphics cards of today cannot handle that load. Therefore, we should expect games to acquire that technique only when the next-generations of graphics processors will get 24 ? 32 pixel pipelines and advanced memory interfaces.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/farcry13_7.html


If I were you, I would base my decision on whether or not I was planning on running an SLI setup in the future. If you are, then you'll pay a more money for the SLI motherboard and 6800GT. If you're planning on sticking with running a single card, I would opt for the lower cost but equal performing X800XL and cheaper non-SLI motherboard.

 

[SilverPenguin]

Thanks once again.... Ok so it sounds like NVIDIA MIGHT be a better long term decision, but ATi has em beat now. As for SLI I don?t much see a point to it.... i mean unless u buy TWO top of the line cards now to get "twice the speed" then it doesn?t make since. because if I were to get a sli bord and just buy one 6800 gt with the mind-set that when I want to upgrade i can just buy the now really cheep 6800, for a performance boots... well that logic makes no since to me because I would be upgrading with old tech. and if I would just spend another 100-200 dollars I could probably find a mid range card that would beat the two of the old tech 6800 gt's combined. so in other words im not going to use SLI so the NIVIDA cards don?t really attract my attention in that aspect. This shadier business, however, has me confused and reluctant to get the x800 xl.

Although i do have this thought... its just basic business. GAME developers CANT and wont screw more than half their potential buyers buy making a game that wont work with their NEW video card. I mean if my card doesn?t work with their crap design then im not gunna go out and buy a new card jsut to play their game, im gunna go out and buy a different game.
I have no doubt that 3.0 shader is the future of gaming but i find it hard to imagine that game developers would start to implement a new tech before 90 % of gamers have it in their systems. if anything they will ( to my logic) wait until the x800 xl's, or any other 2.0 shader card is so useless that they physically cant handle the games coming out and gamers have long passed upgraded.... aka they would start to use the shader in like 3-4 years


I could be wrong? and if I am please let me know. Like I said im just using what I think is common sense.

 

[cecco]

Thanks for the link Creig. That's what I figured. I opted for the DFI NF4 Ultra-D so SLI won't be in my future. I think I'll go with that Gigabyte X800XL and its nice heat sink/pipes. As a I plan to OC the CPU and MEM, maybe I could figure out a way to slap a silent fan on that setup and get some decent overclock from it. I want a fast system, but trying to keep it quiet at the same time.

SilverPenguin best of luck on your decision, I usually upgrade my video card twice before builiding a new system, so this time I'm going to go a little cheaper and go with the xl.

 

[SilverPenguin]

BTW creig's post makes a lot of sence to me.

 

[SomeDude22]

I think you should wait untill next generation cards come which should be in a few months because buying something then having a new generation release isnt a good idea

 

[Pete]

Originally posted by: hans030390
SM3.0 WILL be needed to play any next gen games correctly, so any x800 card won't cut it for future proofness, UNLESS you plan on upgrading soon.

I never knew "correctly" was so flexible!

SM3 is nice, but if you're looking at a $300 X800XL or a $400 6800GT, I'd pick the XL and plan on upgrading perhaps a little sooner. That extra $100 in your pocket will make the upgrade that much easier. If you think some extra effects in a handful of games is worth the extra money, or you don't plan on upgrading in a year or so, then I guess you may a swell go for the 6800GT.

 

[BrokenVisage]

Originally posted by: munky
/slaps hand on face and pulls it down

Sm3 is not worth spending $100 extra bucks. Sm2 can do pretty much anything sm3 can if the developer is willing to code it. If youre getting a pci-e bord, then you can get a x800xl for $300 bucks. Why anyone would spend $400 on a similar performance 6800gt is beyond me.

Amen!

 

[Avalon]

Originally posted by: humey
Well upgrading from a DX9b card to another ATI DX9b card any X800 / X850, aint much a upgrade

Honestly, that really sounds like you're saying upgrading from a 9800pro to an X800 series isn't an upgrade. SM3.0 or not, going from the former to the latter is a pretty noticeable upgrade.

 

[imported_humey]

Your just as bad as that other peep, go read what i posted both times, show me where the hell i said a 9800pro to ati X800 or X850 aint a upgrade, I DID however say i dont class dx9b non p.s 3.0 as a upgrade this late in the day april 2005.

Anyone that slates p.s 3.0 obv dont use it and games like splinter cell 3 CT even miss out p.s 2.0 support, ati user can choose 1.0 , newer nvidia users can choose 1.0 or 3.0.

This isnt a ati v nvidia thread, i told him buy a next gen card that will cost more at time or get one of current when next gen are out and it be less cost.

I would love to know, do peeps troll through pages that are days old, just to piss others of by trying to start a troll war ?

I also remember you as a fanboy from the purevideo threads.

 

[SilverPenguin]

well i dont want to blow $300 on a video card that you guys think i will end up having to replace in a year.... so i guess i will wait for the next generation to come out and pick up the 6800 gt. its too bad tho, i really liked the x800 xl.:frown:

More than anything im looking for a smart buy that will last me a few years... im not someone who has the money to buy the new bad boy videocard on the block every time a new one comes out.

 

[NokiaDude]

If you can, wait it out a little. I dropped ~$1500 on a sweet A64 S939 system and it doesn't do any better than my Barton 2500+ except in games. The A64+ slaughters the Barton.

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: SilverPenguin
well i dont want to blow $300 on a video card that you guys think i will end up having to replace in a year.... so i guess i will wait for the next generation to come out and pick up the 6800 gt. its too bad tho, i really liked the x800 xl.:frown:

More than anything im looking for a smart buy that will last me a few years... im not someone who has the money to buy the new bad boy videocard on the block every time a new one comes out.

There is no way you'd have to replace an X800XL one year from now to play games. As of right now, there is ONE game developer who has ONE game title that does't support SM2.0 and it's rumored that they were convinced not to support it by Nvidia just so they would have some bragging rights. As has been stated before, SM3.0 is mostly about efficiency, not visual improvments.

Right now, there is a MUCH larger installed base of SM2.0 cards than SM3.0 and the majority of game developers aren't going to exclude them simply because something new has come along. This is no different than listening to people say over and over that AGP cards would be dead three months after PCI-E cards were released.

I would say an X800XL purchased today will hold you over quite nicely for at least 2 years unless you plan running 1600x1200 with aa/af enabled. Then you'd be better off looking at either a high end card (6800U or X850XT), an SLI setup or a next gen card. But for resolutions under that, an X800XL won't disappoint.

 

[RussianSensation]

Originally posted by: SilverPenguin
well i dont want to blow $300 on a video card that you guys think i will end up having to replace in a year.... so i guess i will wait for the next generation to come out and pick up the 6800 gt. its too bad tho, i really liked the x800 xl.:frown:

More than anything im looking for a smart buy that will last me a few years... im not someone who has the money to buy the new bad boy videocard on the block every time a new one comes out.

Maybe for you it's better to keep buying mid-range cards only then. There is nothing wrong with that. For exampe, 9600Pro - midrange; then 6600GT midrange; then R520 midrange...so on (Or buy high-end cards and sell them to finance the next purchase of high-end cars). Now if you were to buy 9800Pro and keep it for a long time, then the 2nd midrange card 6600GT would have surpassed it. Say 9800Pro cost $400 at teh start but you couldnt afford to spend $400, you could get $200 9600Pro and then $200 6600GT. If you plan on spending nearly $400 on 6800GT and keeping it for years, then by the time this generation midrange card comes out, it'll already be faster. If $400 is steep for you, there is no point of going above and beyond what you want to spend based on stupid SM3.0 features. Also X800XL should last a year easily.

But unfortunately 9800Pro is almost as fast as 6600GT so this mid-range cycle wouldnt work for you yet. In that case you might wait until next generation and start with dual-core and a new midrange generation card that'll be most likely faster than x800xl and 6800GT. And then keep going at that rate...? Also even getting X800XL for $290 right now will save you loads - $100 out of $290 over 6800GT PCIe is 34% savings. There is no way 6800GT will ever give you 34% improvement in games in anything over X800XL.

Why dont you read this review:
HERE

I dont even think it's worth spending $100 extra for X850XT PE over X800XL, not even talking about 6800GT.

 

[11427]

Originally posted by: SilverPenguin
More than anything im looking for a smart buy that will last me a few years... im not someone who has the money to buy the new bad boy videocard on the block every time a new one comes out.

I guess it all depends on what you use it for,.... me, I have an old PCI Radeon 7200 SDR 32mb card in my A64 machine. Works great, for what I use it for.

 

[shimsham]

upgrading based on 3.0 seems silly to me. from what ive gathered and read, by the time 3.0 is used enought to warrant it becoming a deciding factor, the current gen of cards wont be strong enough to run the games well.

so you buy a 6800gt today because you want to "future proof" with the 3.0 feature, but when the games roll out next year or whenever, the card may(more than likely judging by past perfomance patterns) average low frames, which means that the minimum frames will suck ass and ruin the game.

IMO, any card bought right now wont be good enough to run the 3.0 games acceptably by the time they hit the market with any kind of impact. you would have to upgrade again and waste the extra money you spent for 3.0 in the first place this gen.

 

[kmmatney]

I would only upgrade from from your 9800 Pro if you need to hit 1600 x 1200 resolutions because your getting a large LCD monitor, or if you buy a PCI-Express motherboard. Otherwise, its still a good card. I would wait until you can double your peformance for $200. Hopefully that will be when the next generation cards come out. What screws everything up is the switch from an AGP to a PCI-E motherboard...