university introduces electronic monitoring of student attendance

[Hacp]

Students need to grow a collective brain and fight back

have EVERYONE leave thier ID's at home.

Prof gives a lecture in front of 300 people but the record show zero people there... enough of that and the silly practice of trying to track students will stop.

Or I can bring my ID and be the only one in the class to receive an A.

 

[Train]

Or I can bring my ID and be the only one in the class to receive an A.

There's always a buddy fucker.

 

[Babbles]

I don't see what the big deal is. Part of me just sees it as helping the instructor take attendance in those classes where participation via attendance is part of the grade. I would imagine most professors probably wouldn't care, albeit maybe some would use it solely for attendance purposes for large (100+ ?) lectures. I do think it would be interesting research data; if attendance was then correlated with exam/course grades (albeit with the student identification subsequently removed) to determine if in fact, on average, attending class does yield better performance.

Additionally I can see how this could be useful for emergency situations (a la Virginia Tech) by assisting public entities in accounting for the student body.

 

[Terzo]

Hell, for my math class first year, I didn't buy a textbook, and I also didn't go to class. Unfortunately, that teacher gave 2 points per day you showed up. If you don't take that into account, I got the highest grade in that class too.

No class and no textbook...but you got the highest grade. Why were you even in that class? I get the impression that you didn't need to learn anything they were teaching.

 

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

Troll. I agree with you to some extent, but you're still a troll.

Sorry, just frustrated TAing some of these douchebags who think they are entitled :|

 

[Train]

No class and no textbook...but you got the highest grade. Why were you even in that class? I get the impression that you didn't need to learn anything they were teaching.

Everyone on ATOT got straight A's through the toughest possible course loads while skipping class, spending their book money on beer, and hangin out in hot tubs with naked babes all day.

duh.

 

[MrPickins]

I just always made sure to give a good chunk of info for all tests that could only be gleamed from my lectures. My attendance stayed high because if you didn't show up your chances of getting anything higher then a C on your exams was basically nil.

This is how most of my classes this semester were (senior year of undergrad CS).

I made damn sure I was at every lecture...

 

[kalrith]

I don't understand why attendance is required at the University level...

I agree completely. I got my Bachelor's Degree at a school where attendance was part of the grade for every class. For a 3-day-a-week class, you could miss 6 times with no detriment, 7-8 times was a letter grade drop, and 9 times was an F.

I got my Master's Degree at a school that didn't have attendance as part of the grade. Some professors took attendance and some gave extra credit for it, but they couldn't let it negatively impact the grade.

The result: 2-3 times as many students were absent when attendance was counted compared to attendance not being counted. I think the main reason was that all the students saw those 6 absences as "free" and tried to attain that number in every class every semester. It was not uncommon for a student to only have 2 absences in a class at the end of the semester and then miss the 4 classes right before the final. It became a game to hit the max number of absences.

When it was left up to the responsibility of the students at the other school, the attendance was much higher.

I did take a couple undergrad classes at the same school as my Master's Degree, and my wife went there as well. The attendance was much the same situation in the undergrad classes, so this wasn't just a case of grad students being more responsible.

 

[timosyy]

No class and no textbook...but you got the highest grade. Why were you even in that class? I get the impression that you didn't need to learn anything they were teaching.

I'm not the guy you quoted but I can probably answer this: Mandatory classes.

For example, I transferred into my current university having taken Math through Multivariable Calculus (I was transferring from engineering to a business IT major). However, because the transfer office decided that the Calculus I/II credit from the previous college did not include matrices, I had to take Calculus I (again) to graduate. Spent all of one lesson on matrices. Never went to class, got a 100.

 

[thegimp03]

Attendance was taken by the majority of the professors I had in college. It wasn't really a pain in the ass until senior year when I'd already signed the job offer letter for an accounting firm. I had professors that were still taking attendance in classes I didn't care about at that point but I took them because I needed credits towards the CPA...like upper division marketing, business management, and finance courses. I remember taking a Psych 1 course and skipping 2-3 times and the teacher lowered my final grade. My future fiancee who was in the course with me (we weren't dating at the time) still gives me crap about the fact that she got an A...

 

[DrPizza]

Lame. I hardly ever went to class during college, and got a 3.8 GPA. I went to classes if the professor actually had some useful knowledge to impart. Usually they would just stand up there and read straight from lecture notes that came straight from the textbook.

Sorry, i'll read the book on my own time, and figure things out for myself.

*sigh* A bachelors is slowly degrading into a highschool degree :|

Sadly, bignateyk proves WhoBeDaPlaya's point. Bachelors degree programs are getting easier and easier. But, it's sort of the point I was going to make about compulsory attendance: if a professor has to make attendance mandatory because most of the students can get good grades without coming to class, then you're wasting your money & that professor isn't doing his job. (Or, he has the miracle textbook that's completely up to date with zero errors in it.)

I still remember my college US History classes - 50% of the test questions came from very interesting material the professor presented in class to enhance what we read in the textbooks. He had an expectation that students read everything that was assigned. If you didn't, you were destined to get a lot of test questions wrong. His class was my hardest class & lowest grade I received that semester (B+, so not bad), but I enjoyed it so much that I took US History 2 from the same prof. I only recall a couple of classes where the professor taught from a textbook. When I was in engineering school, we were learning a lot of things that had never been published in a textbook before because they were so cutting edge; so having a book to learn from was pretty much out of the question.

But to repeat - there should be no way to get an A in most college level courses without attending class. If you can, then all you're paying for is a piece of paper, not an education.

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

Sadly, bignateyk proves WhoBeDaPlaya's point. Bachelors degree programs are getting easier and easier.

Any evidence to back that up?

 

[KeithTalent]

Stupid. If I don't want to attend class it's my own damn business and if my grades go down because of it, then kick me out.

KT

 

[JS80]

lol, this coming from a kid who has a free ride and still bitches about it.

srsly

 

[SphinxnihpS]

I don't see knowing where you are on campus as an issue. If students dislike this practice... they can always get those wallets with padding that doesn't allow the chip to be picked up by sensors.

That's because you're an idiot kid who has grown up in a world where this is common. You have been indoctrinated to an attitude that the benefits of this type of technology outweigh the drawbacks. However you are very short on history. Power corrupts, and this is another avenue of power. This type of tracking has ENORMOUS potential to be abused, which means it will be eventually.

Abuse right now may include getting a poor grade. Later abuse may be rounding your dumb ass up because you fit a certain unwanted demographic. Jews were easy enough to find without crap like this. Guess who was in charge of rounding them up and cataloging them? IBM buddy.

 

[SphinxnihpS]

Any evidence to back that up?

You seem to be purposely stupid a lot of the time. Read. He's correct.

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

You seem to be purposely stupid a lot of the time. Read. He's correct.

You seem to be obliviously stupid a lot of the time. Anecdote != evidence.

 

[Terzo]

Everyone on ATOT got straight A's through the toughest possible course loads while skipping class, spending their book money on beer, and hangin out in hot tubs with naked babes all day.

duh.

I don't need to go to college to do that!

I'm not the guy you quoted but I can probably answer this: Mandatory classes.

For example, I transferred into my current university having taken Math through Multivariable Calculus (I was transferring from engineering to a business IT major). However, because the transfer office decided that the Calculus I/II credit from the previous college did not include matrices, I had to take Calculus I (again) to graduate. Spent all of one lesson on matrices. Never went to class, got a 100.

That's a reasonable possibility. Though that sucks that you had to do all that for matrices.
Anyways, while you make a point it's more fun to jump to conclusions, plus I'm a bit of a jerk.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Sadly, bignateyk proves WhoBeDaPlaya's point. Bachelors degree programs are getting easier and easier. But, it's sort of the point I was going to make about compulsory attendance: if a professor has to make attendance mandatory because most of the students can get good grades without coming to class, then you're wasting your money & that professor isn't doing his job. (Or, he has the miracle textbook that's completely up to date with zero errors in it.)

I still remember my college US History classes - 50% of the test questions came from very interesting material the professor presented in class to enhance what we read in the textbooks. He had an expectation that students read everything that was assigned. If you didn't, you were destined to get a lot of test questions wrong. His class was my hardest class & lowest grade I received that semester (B+, so not bad), but I enjoyed it so much that I took US History 2 from the same prof. I only recall a couple of classes where the professor taught from a textbook. When I was in engineering school, we were learning a lot of things that had never been published in a textbook before because they were so cutting edge; so having a book to learn from was pretty much out of the question.

But to repeat - there should be no way to get an A in most college level courses without attending class. If you can, then all you're paying for is a piece of paper, not an education.

I see your point, and can somewhat agree in general...but it's pretty easy to imagine a scenario that disproves it. Case in point: Roman history. It's been done to death. There are a RIDICULOUS amount of resources out there...not only texts and primary documents, but critical analysis, critiquing, and subsequent counter-arguments. It's ENTIRELY possible for someone to get an undergraduate (and possibly even graduate) level understanding of Roman history if they know how to learn (which every person should by the end of high school).

Now, you could counter that a professor could inject ridiculously arcane facts and then test on them, forcing someone who studies on their own to fail...but in point of fact that professor has done a disservice by focusing on what are probably irrelevant points just to make you show up.

The same can be said of many/most subjects. There's very little a professor can lecture on about algebra that isn't thoroughly covered in the text or various references.

What it comes down to for me is two things: learning styles and professor bias. Some people learn in class or from others, while others learn alone from books. You can't force people to learn outside of their style, they're largely incapable of it no matter what. As for bias, every professor has one. Going to class doesn't mean you learn the subject, it means you learn what the professor wants you to know about the subject. You can generally get a broader picture by studying on your own from multiple sources and avoiding the singular bias.

 

[SphinxnihpS]

You seem to be obliviously stupid a lot of the time. Anecdote != evidence.

I'm not referring to his anecdote you kiwi-brained twat! The part I'm referring to is the part you didn't read and/or get.

If you can get a good grade in a class that is supposed to be attended without actually attending it, the class is not worth attending, and you are not learning anything/getting your money's worth. This was his point. You challenging ONLY the anecdote of a larger position is silly.

Seemingly obvious is an oxymoron.

Why do I always have to spell it out for you?

 

[Skel]

That's because you're an idiot kid who has grown up in a world where this is common. You have been indoctrinated to an attitude that the benefits of this type of technology outweigh the drawbacks. However you are very short on history. Power corrupts, and this is another avenue of power. This type of tracking has ENORMOUS potential to be abused, which means it will be eventually.

Abuse right now may include getting a poor grade. Later abuse may be rounding your dumb ass up because you fit a certain unwanted demographic. Jews were easy enough to find without crap like this. Guess who was in charge of rounding them up and cataloging them? IBM buddy.

IBM rounded up the jews? WTF are you talking about? link to source?

 

[Terzo]

IBM rounded up the jews? WTF are you talking about? link to source?

I don't remember hearing anything about IBM actively rounding up the Jews, but I do remember reading about them having history with the Nazi party.

A quick google search leads to this book review, which talks about how IBM's punch cards were used to help carry out the holocaust.

 

[SphinxnihpS]

IBM rounded up the jews? WTF are you talking about? link to source?

http://www.ibmandtheholocaust.com/

Could not have had the H without Big Blue.

 

[Hacp]

I'm not the guy you quoted but I can probably answer this: Mandatory classes.

For example, I transferred into my current university having taken Math through Multivariable Calculus (I was transferring from engineering to a business IT major). However, because the transfer office decided that the Calculus I/II credit from the previous college did not include matrices, I had to take Calculus I (again) to graduate. Spent all of one lesson on matrices. Never went to class, got a 100.

What? Since when does calculus cover matrices?

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

What? Since when does calculus cover matrices?

My calc I and II courses had a couple of weeks of linear algebra. I never did figure out why. My best guess is that they were preparing science and engineering students for simple matrix algebra before they have a chance to put them through a proper linear algebra course (at my university there are no dedicated linear algebra papers until second year IIRC).