With over 40 million people in our country without health coverage, why aren't we working towards getting universal health coverage? I think it's ridiculous that a country so "advanced" as the United States cannot cover its citizens in life-threatening and other miscellaneous health situations. Personally, I think we as citizens are to blame. We don't want higher taxes, and use excuses such as "Well if everyone gets coverage, our quality of healthcare will go down." Any healthcare system where nearly a quarter of the population cannot receive coverage is a JOKE and needs to be revamped.
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Universal Health Coverage
- Thread starter Reckoner
- Start date
Darkhawk28
Diamond Member
The only ones that deserve a universal health coverage are children, imho.
Steeplerot
Lifer
The biggest joke is the tax excuse when we have some of the worlds highest taxes of the civilised world and about the only one with NO universal health coverage it is obvious where that is going.
-straight to the military industrial complexs small pen0r obsession while the citizens grow sicker.
-straight to the military industrial complexs small pen0r obsession while the citizens grow sicker.
Steeplerot
Lifer
Compared to what we get out of our taxes we are very overburdened.
-The greatest working class rip-off
Darkhawk28
Diamond Member
Sounds like the Republican health plan.
Steeplerot
Lifer
A interesting view from some random google archive trying to find hard numbers for my statement above, enjoy 😉
I find all this nationalism very disturbing....every country is screwed up
and judging people so bitterly because they're from somewhere else is
terrible.
I am American, lived in the US for 30 years and I don't like it, so I moved
to Europe for a bit of a saner, saferm slower life, but I wish to say that
there are reasons the USA is so crazy that I don't think Europeans can
appreciate.
Although there is a lot of opportunity in America, it is an incredible
struggle for most people to live there. Americans get no vacation time (2
weeks if they're lucky), are worked incredibly hard and competitively and
have little if no job security (layoffs/firings are very common), are not
given adequate governmental support if they are unemployed or sick, and
live in a constant, pulsating 24/7 society surrounded by loud, big
over-the-top advertising and a constant bombardment of useless
information/input. Nervous breakdowns and depression/anxiety is almost
common place. At my last job there, EVERYONE in the office was taking
Prozac to help cope with their stressful lives.
Hence, everyone lives with a strange, sort of unspoken tension and fear,
which results in an incredibly aggressive and violent society. America's
main problem, imho, is greed. You only have what you earn and if you don't
earn it, you don't deserve it, hence if you don't work 40 hrs a week, 50
weeks a year, you don't deserve/earn decent health care. There is not
enough compassion to help others, almost dog-eat-dog.
I think the absolute biggest problem is that most Americans themselves
don't realize there are better systems. They are raised/brainwashed that
America is the greatest power in the world, everyone wants to be there, etc
etc. They don't question the lack of social services that most other
"western" countries take for granted. If, instead of reprimanding them, we
could try to educate them more, maybe they could start demanding better
services from their governments.
Some half-baked ideas of mine:
1) Guns should be illegal....the right to bear arms in the 21st century??
pathetic....
2) Advertising, religion and politics should not mix....
3) People should undergo a mandatory class on the issues before they are
allowed to vote (most people have a Nation Enquirer knowledge of the world
affairs that their votes affect)
4) Health care should be everyones right, not a privelage
5) Taxes should be higher to support programs/care for sick, unemployed,
elderly, etc etc
6) Employees should be given more free time so they don't "go postal"
Anyhow, not to sound like a rapper or anything, but let's educate instead
of criticize 🙂
I am cool with all that except the gun thing. With the whackos in control and going nuts with the fascism thing guns are a good idea to protect us from our own less "civilised" folk -just in case the day comes they decide to "kill the commies". Shame it has to be like that though and I hope people chill soon.
I find all this nationalism very disturbing....every country is screwed up
and judging people so bitterly because they're from somewhere else is
terrible.
I am American, lived in the US for 30 years and I don't like it, so I moved
to Europe for a bit of a saner, saferm slower life, but I wish to say that
there are reasons the USA is so crazy that I don't think Europeans can
appreciate.
Although there is a lot of opportunity in America, it is an incredible
struggle for most people to live there. Americans get no vacation time (2
weeks if they're lucky), are worked incredibly hard and competitively and
have little if no job security (layoffs/firings are very common), are not
given adequate governmental support if they are unemployed or sick, and
live in a constant, pulsating 24/7 society surrounded by loud, big
over-the-top advertising and a constant bombardment of useless
information/input. Nervous breakdowns and depression/anxiety is almost
common place. At my last job there, EVERYONE in the office was taking
Prozac to help cope with their stressful lives.
Hence, everyone lives with a strange, sort of unspoken tension and fear,
which results in an incredibly aggressive and violent society. America's
main problem, imho, is greed. You only have what you earn and if you don't
earn it, you don't deserve it, hence if you don't work 40 hrs a week, 50
weeks a year, you don't deserve/earn decent health care. There is not
enough compassion to help others, almost dog-eat-dog.
I think the absolute biggest problem is that most Americans themselves
don't realize there are better systems. They are raised/brainwashed that
America is the greatest power in the world, everyone wants to be there, etc
etc. They don't question the lack of social services that most other
"western" countries take for granted. If, instead of reprimanding them, we
could try to educate them more, maybe they could start demanding better
services from their governments.
Some half-baked ideas of mine:
1) Guns should be illegal....the right to bear arms in the 21st century??
pathetic....
2) Advertising, religion and politics should not mix....
3) People should undergo a mandatory class on the issues before they are
allowed to vote (most people have a Nation Enquirer knowledge of the world
affairs that their votes affect)
4) Health care should be everyones right, not a privelage
5) Taxes should be higher to support programs/care for sick, unemployed,
elderly, etc etc
6) Employees should be given more free time so they don't "go postal"
Anyhow, not to sound like a rapper or anything, but let's educate instead
of criticize 🙂
I am cool with all that except the gun thing. With the whackos in control and going nuts with the fascism thing guns are a good idea to protect us from our own less "civilised" folk -just in case the day comes they decide to "kill the commies". Shame it has to be like that though and I hope people chill soon.
Darkhawk28
Diamond Member
So can we stop hearing the complaining from the "right" about being overtaxed?
Darkhawk28
Diamond Member
At least you were honest. A bit hypocritical, but honest. :laugh:
CycloWizard
Lifer
I sincerely doubt anyone is really AGAINST having healthcare for everyone, or 'universal healthcare'. I voted no, however, because I know what you meant to ask: do you support socialized medicine?
Why did I vote no? Because there are much better ways to make sure everyone has the healthcare they need without having the government run the show. I think almost any option is preferable, as it's obvious that the government isn't really capable of doing this adequately. I base this on my own knowledge of government-sponsored healthcare activities that currently exist (Medicare and Medicaid) that fail miserably on all levels. The level they fail on the most? The patients have everything for free, so they don't bother to show up for appointments, demand unnecessary services, and so on. Not all of them, but a significant fraction such that many doctors simply have to refuse service to the entire group at this point.
I'm not sure what the ideal solution is, but the way I'm leaning is similar to how I think welfare and similar items should be dealt with. First, every company should have to offer its employees healthcare after xxx time of employment (3 months?). The time limit prevents people from showing up, having some procedure done, and quitting the next day. For the unemployed, the healthcare could be provided by private insurance companies through the state via a bidding process, rather than by the state directly. The insurance companies would have to apply the same rules to these clients as any other to ensure that they got the same level of care. Some compliance rules should be drawn up for those who abuse the system - if you don't play by the rules, you lose coverage. There would also be a time limit on the duration of this coverage (unless you're disabled/legitimately unable to work) just like I would place on unemployment benefits. Point being, it's a temporary safety net to cover you between jobs, not so you can live off the system without having to worry. Enough to make sure you're good to go but short enough to keep you motivated and looking for a job.
Why did I vote no? Because there are much better ways to make sure everyone has the healthcare they need without having the government run the show. I think almost any option is preferable, as it's obvious that the government isn't really capable of doing this adequately. I base this on my own knowledge of government-sponsored healthcare activities that currently exist (Medicare and Medicaid) that fail miserably on all levels. The level they fail on the most? The patients have everything for free, so they don't bother to show up for appointments, demand unnecessary services, and so on. Not all of them, but a significant fraction such that many doctors simply have to refuse service to the entire group at this point.
I'm not sure what the ideal solution is, but the way I'm leaning is similar to how I think welfare and similar items should be dealt with. First, every company should have to offer its employees healthcare after xxx time of employment (3 months?). The time limit prevents people from showing up, having some procedure done, and quitting the next day. For the unemployed, the healthcare could be provided by private insurance companies through the state via a bidding process, rather than by the state directly. The insurance companies would have to apply the same rules to these clients as any other to ensure that they got the same level of care. Some compliance rules should be drawn up for those who abuse the system - if you don't play by the rules, you lose coverage. There would also be a time limit on the duration of this coverage (unless you're disabled/legitimately unable to work) just like I would place on unemployment benefits. Point being, it's a temporary safety net to cover you between jobs, not so you can live off the system without having to worry. Enough to make sure you're good to go but short enough to keep you motivated and looking for a job.
dmcowen674
No Lifer
Welcome to P&N. Apparently you didn't get the memo.
Republican mandate is only the rich can afford Healthcare otherwise you either die or must leave the U.S. and go to other Countries for Health care.
1) A phase-in approach would be suitable. For instance, people aged 65 and older are the first people who get to participate in the program. Then the next phase would be 0-13, and so forth. Basically, a way to defray the costs upfront.
2) While being phased in, PHASE MEDICARE OUT. Take the money from medicare and put it into the new universal healthcare plan. Will it cover all the costs? Absolutely not. Some increased taxation will be involved, but as has been pointed out before, we are one of the lesser taxed developed countries in the world.
3) Continue to have private healthcare companies to help regulate the costs. Full-time workers would still have to go under a private healthcare plan provided by their workplace.
4) Tax corporations to help fund Universal Health Care. Offer a tax credit if a certain percentage of their overall workers are under a private healthcare plan paid for by the corporation (ballpark figure of 75% of workers insured).
I'm just throwing out ideas. If we can afford to dish out billions of dollars in Iraq, we should be able to figure out a way to finalize a universal health system.
OS
Lifer
That's not too bad, except for the employer paid insurance. IMO that whole mindset needs to be rethinked, employers absorbing the nation's healthcare cost puts US companies and workers at a global disadvantage. This is supposed to be one of the biggest reasons why US automakers are at such a serious disadvantage, Japan has nationalized healthcare.
I know one of the ideas CA legislature was floating around was that make it state law that everyone must buy at least basic health insurance. At first it sounded like overkill, but thinking about it, it may not be such a terrible idea. All drivers are already required to carry car insurance. And if everyone had to buy insurance, individual cost should fall since costs are distributed evenly across all residents.
CycloWizard
Lifer
I didn't mean the employer pays for the insurance, just that the employer has a contract or similar with an insurance company. They could negotiate a good rate for their employees or something, but I definitely agree that the employer shouldn't foot the bill.
The problem I see with your CA example is that driving is really a luxury - you can get by without it. People can't necessarily afford to drive, so not all of them have to have insurance. How would this apply to someone who can't afford even a basic plan?
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