Universal health Care (or really insurance)

[Fern]

UHC is really UHI (universal health insurance).

I've long complained here that covering more peeple is likely bogus, at least until that coverage actually means something.

What's the point of expensive HI only to find after paying mucho $s that you're NOT really covered?

Policies can have annual limits or lifetime limits, or just plain 'ole non-coverage of your medical problem. This means you're going bankrupt for any serious condition - precisely the reason most want/need HI for.

It's been long claimed by proponents of UHC (why can't they be honest about the name) that medically - forced bankruptcies are a good reason for UHC.

Guess what? Looks like unless Hi is reformed UHC will likely be a big waste. Karen Tumulty who writes for Time magazine and has been all over health care and UHC for the past 15 years is just now figuring this out.

In a 2005 Harvard University study of more than 1,700 bankruptcies across the country, researchers found that medical problems were behind half of them ? and three-quarters of those bankrupt people actually had health insurance. As Elizabeth Warren, a Harvard Law professor who helped conduct the study, wrote in the Washington Post, "Nobody's safe ... A comfortable middle-class lifestyle? Good education? Decent job? No safeguards there. Most of the medically bankrupt were middle-class homeowners who had been to college and had responsible jobs ? until illness struck."

Fern

 

[fskimospy]

Because it's about more than bankruptcies? It's about quality of living, and a decrease in overall costs to the health care system by treating catastrophic illness like cancer before it becomes...well... catastrophic. All this has been stated probably hundreds of times on here.

 

[JSt0rm]

What we need is cost reform. The $12 crutch that costs $150 at the hospital to cover all the ones given away to people without insurance need to have the price brought down to $12 if everybody is now insured. The medical industry wants to keep charging $150 for the crutch and sell them to everyone. Its a simple example but I think it holds.

 

[bamacre]

It'll be great for health care companies, especially big pharma. It will most certainly not help with the costs of health care, just transfer the burden of those costs, which is in the interest of the health care companies.

The more the gov't does, the more incentive people have to not work. If they can collect welfare, get free health care, free food (stamps), and eventually free housing, then who needs a job?

As long as we continue to think that government can create wealth, instead of the truth that it can only transfer it, we'll continue a progressive path toward chaos.

 

[JS80]

before they force everyone to buy govt health insurance they should have spend $500 billion of the stimulus bill building 100 medical and nursing schools along with 100 hospitals to permanently increase the churning out of doctors, create a huge medical scholarship trust, and break the AMA monopoly.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Insurance is a inherently corrupted scam. It's capitalized socialism, and it simply can't be done fairly. Get rid of all insurance absolutely, and then fix the real issues in each area (healthcare, liability, disaster, etc).

100% socialized, or 100% individual responsibility. Either is better than any kind of insurance.

 

[GroundedSailor]

We need to get to a single payer system. Until we eliminate the I in UHI we're just skirting around the problem.

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: Fern
UHC is really UHI (universal health insurance).

I've long complained here that covering more peeple is likely bogus, at least until that coverage actually means something.

What's the point of expensive HI only to find after paying mucho $s that you're NOT really covered?

Policies can have annual limits or lifetime limits, or just plain 'ole non-coverage of your medical problem. This means you're going bankrupt for any serious condition - precisely the reason most want/need HI for.

It's been long claimed by proponents of UHC (why can't they be honest about the name) that medically - forced bankruptcies are a good reason for UHC.

Guess what? Looks like unless Hi is reformed UHC will likely be a big waste. Karen Tumulty who writes for Time magazine and has been all over health care and UHC for the past 15 years is just now figuring this out.

In a 2005 Harvard University study of more than 1,700 bankruptcies across the country, researchers found that medical problems were behind half of them ? and three-quarters of those bankrupt people actually had health insurance. As Elizabeth Warren, a Harvard Law professor who helped conduct the study, wrote in the Washington Post, "Nobody's safe ... A comfortable middle-class lifestyle? Good education? Decent job? No safeguards there. Most of the medically bankrupt were middle-class homeowners who had been to college and had responsible jobs ? until illness struck."

Fern

Bankruptcies are are very poor argument for UHC unless you are going to couple UHC with UFI coverage.

 

[Genx87]

I think the best way to reduce costs in the medical industry is to increase the amount of people who use the system.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: Genx87
I think the best way to reduce costs in the medical industry is to increase the amount of people who use the system.

don't you mean increase the amount of people to provide service to the system?

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Genx87
I think the best way to reduce costs in the medical industry is to increase the amount of people who use the system.

don't you mean increase the amount of people to provide service to the system?

I was hoping my sarcasm would be picked up.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Insurance is a inherently corrupted scam. It's capitalized socialism, and it simply can't be done fairly. Get rid of all insurance absolutely, and then fix the real issues in each area (healthcare, liability, disaster, etc).

100% socialized, or 100% individual responsibility. Either is better than any kind of insurance.

Actually let health insurance be health insurance and not a health care plans and things will become much more affordable.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Genx87
I think the best way to reduce costs in the medical industry is to increase the amount of people who use the system.

don't you mean increase the amount of people to provide service to the system?

I was hoping my sarcasm would be picked up.

cmon it's friday afternoon.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Genx87
I think the best way to reduce costs in the medical industry is to increase the amount of people who use the system.

Decouple health insurance from employment will help as well.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: bamacre

The more the gov't does, the more incentive people have to not work. If they can collect welfare, get free health care, free food (stamps), and eventually free housing, then who needs a job?

Kinda of like those lazy people in the Military, you are so right, they never work!

 

[OCGuy]

Yea, it really worked for Hawaii.

http://www.breitbart.com/artic...3SBEUG0&show_article=1

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: TheRedUnderURBed

Originally posted by: bamacre

The more the gov't does, the more incentive people have to not work. If they can collect welfare, get free health care, free food (stamps), and eventually free housing, then who needs a job?

Kinda of like those lazy people in the Military, you are so right, they never work!

You mean those people that actually work for their benefits?

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Insurance is a inherently corrupted scam. It's capitalized socialism, and it simply can't be done fairly. Get rid of all insurance absolutely, and then fix the real issues in each area (healthcare, liability, disaster, etc).

100% socialized, or 100% individual responsibility. Either is better than any kind of insurance.

Actually let health insurance be health insurance and not a health care plans and things will become much more affordable.

Even if it became affordable, it's still capitalized socialism. People who use little or no benefits end up paying for those that use a lot.

 

[daniel49]

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
What we need is cost reform. The $12 crutch that costs $150 at the hospital to cover all the ones given away to people without insurance need to have the price brought down to $12 if everybody is now insured. The medical industry wants to keep charging $150 for the crutch and sell them to everyone. Its a simple example but I think it holds.

I always rented mine for 10.00.

From what I understand Massachusetts HC isn't working well. Doctors won't treat for what the state will pay.

 

[Turin39789]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Insurance is a inherently corrupted scam. It's capitalized socialism, and it simply can't be done fairly. Get rid of all insurance absolutely, and then fix the real issues in each area (healthcare, liability, disaster, etc).

100% socialized, or 100% individual responsibility. Either is better than any kind of insurance.

Actually let health insurance be health insurance and not a health care plans and things will become much more affordable.

Even if it became affordable, it's still capitalized socialism. People who use little or no benefits end up paying for those that use a lot.

I still benefit. I have healthier neighbors, healthier employees.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: TheRedUnderURBed

Originally posted by: bamacre

The more the gov't does, the more incentive people have to not work. If they can collect welfare, get free health care, free food (stamps), and eventually free housing, then who needs a job?

Kinda of like those lazy people in the Military, you are so right, they never work!

You mean those people that actually work for their benefits?

Yeah, exactly unlike what Bamacre stated earlier.
edit: got my wingnuts confused

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Insurance is a inherently corrupted scam. It's capitalized socialism, and it simply can't be done fairly. Get rid of all insurance absolutely, and then fix the real issues in each area (healthcare, liability, disaster, etc).

100% socialized, or 100% individual responsibility. Either is better than any kind of insurance.

Actually let health insurance be health insurance and not a health care plans and things will become much more affordable.

Even if it became affordable, it's still capitalized socialism. People who use little or no benefits end up paying for those that use a lot.

People, even responsible and healthy people, choose to buy insurance because they feel the decreased exposure to catastrophic expenses is worth the cost of the insurance. Call it whatever you want, but it's a valuable service.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Turin39789

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Insurance is a inherently corrupted scam. It's capitalized socialism, and it simply can't be done fairly. Get rid of all insurance absolutely, and then fix the real issues in each area (healthcare, liability, disaster, etc).

100% socialized, or 100% individual responsibility. Either is better than any kind of insurance.

Actually let health insurance be health insurance and not a health care plans and things will become much more affordable.

Even if it became affordable, it's still capitalized socialism. People who use little or no benefits end up paying for those that use a lot.

I still benefit. I have healthier neighbors, healthier employees.

True enough...I'd just rather have personal accountability, or failing that, socialized care which at least has an ideological merit. I don't want people profiting from misfortune, or from laws which protect their extortion.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Insurance is a inherently corrupted scam. It's capitalized socialism, and it simply can't be done fairly. Get rid of all insurance absolutely, and then fix the real issues in each area (healthcare, liability, disaster, etc).

100% socialized, or 100% individual responsibility. Either is better than any kind of insurance.

Actually let health insurance be health insurance and not a health care plans and things will become much more affordable.

Even if it became affordable, it's still capitalized socialism. People who use little or no benefits end up paying for those that use a lot.

People, even responsible and healthy people, choose to buy insurance because they feel the decreased exposure to catastrophic expenses is worth the cost of the insurance. Call it whatever you want, but it's a valuable service.

And you don't think costs are high because (in part):

a) medical and pharms know they can extort those prices because insurance will pay them (unlike the abilities of individuals)

b) insurance companies make obscene profits which force premium increases to cover the same amount of provided coverage

c) the insurance 'safety net' prevents serious investment or exploration into other alternatives?

 

[StageLeft]

I don't know anymore. I do know this, though. If you're worried about your health, the best thing to do is actually to get healthy and the power has always, for most people, resided squarely in their hands. Healthful living is the ticket. Eat properly, workout, don't be an alcoholic, don't be a dumbass. Prevention trumps cure for most people at most points in their lives.