Union Workers at Big Three Automakers Average $73 an Hour

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dartworth

Lifer
Jul 29, 2001
15,200
10
81
Originally posted by: TheSlamma
This same thing happened back in Ohio when I grew up there with the steel mills and parts factories. People were making $19 an hour swinging a hammer in the 1970's, meanwhile people with a BS in Microbiology or other 4 year college degrees were making $6.75.. Unions forced these companies to move overseas.



Now the what happened to the steel industry is quite different. Foreign competition, demand, and the failure to modernize is what really hurt that industry.

Of course, there has been a major resurgence in the US over the past couple of years in the steel industry. However, with all the manufacturing leaving and closing state side, demand is down again.
 

heyheybooboo

Diamond Member
Jun 29, 2007
6,278
0
0
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
The companies need to file chap 11 if they want to survive(if they really are as bad as they claim they are) and drop the dead weight. Obviously with a restructure, all areas will be trimmed or cut - this includes management.

More CAD loose-cannon propaganda...

I'm certain that the 'dead weight' first dropped will be 100s of billions of dollars to be picked up by the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (i.e., US Taxpayers).

 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: heyheybooboo
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
The companies need to file chap 11 if they want to survive(if they really are as bad as they claim they are) and drop the dead weight. Obviously with a restructure, all areas will be trimmed or cut - this includes management.

More CAD loose-cannon propaganda...

I'm certain that the 'dead weight' first dropped will be 100s of billions of dollars to be picked up by the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (i.e., US Taxpayers).

So do you think they should get another 25B in bailout money? Any time they come back begging for more - are you going to use that same argument? How many times will it take for you to stop supporting a failed business model?
 

Squisher

Lifer
Aug 17, 2000
21,204
66
91
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: heyheybooboo
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
The companies need to file chap 11 if they want to survive(if they really are as bad as they claim they are) and drop the dead weight. Obviously with a restructure, all areas will be trimmed or cut - this includes management.

More CAD loose-cannon propaganda...

I'm certain that the 'dead weight' first dropped will be 100s of billions of dollars to be picked up by the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (i.e., US Taxpayers).

So do you think they should get another 25B in bailout money? Any time they come back begging for more - are you going to use that same argument? How many times will it take for you to stop supporting a failed business model?

Where is this new management going to come from? Who is going to appoint new management? A bankruptcy judge? I don't think I've ever heard of one doing that before.
Are we talking about just the board of directors? I hope you don't think there is some farm club of experienced auto management waiting in the wings to be called up to the majors.

I would think if you took a perfectly successful company and swapped out management with a bunch similarly successful managers with no experience in that company there would be some steep learning curve that might doom the successful company to failure. Now, do it to one on the brink of bankruptcy, what is going to happen?

 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Squisher
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: heyheybooboo
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
The companies need to file chap 11 if they want to survive(if they really are as bad as they claim they are) and drop the dead weight. Obviously with a restructure, all areas will be trimmed or cut - this includes management.

More CAD loose-cannon propaganda...

I'm certain that the 'dead weight' first dropped will be 100s of billions of dollars to be picked up by the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (i.e., US Taxpayers).

So do you think they should get another 25B in bailout money? Any time they come back begging for more - are you going to use that same argument? How many times will it take for you to stop supporting a failed business model?

Where is this new management going to come from? Who is going to appoint new management? A bankruptcy judge? I don't think I've ever heard of one doing that before.
Are we talking about just the board of directors? I hope you don't think there is some farm club of experienced auto management waiting in the wings to be called up to the majors.

I would think if you took a perfectly successful company and swapped out management with a bunch similarly successful managers with no experience in that company there would be some steep learning curve that might doom the successful company to failure. Now, do it to one on the brink of bankruptcy, what is going to happen?

I understand that, but what does that have to do with the post you quoted?
 

Fingolfin269

Lifer
Feb 28, 2003
17,948
34
91
Originally posted by: rudder
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
quick, someone figure out how much southern states subsidize toyota and nissan and honda. IIRC they get tons of tax exemptions and crap.

That same southern state that subsidizes Nissan (Tennessee) also subsidizes a GM plant (formerly Saturn, now called GM Manufacturing). In fact that GM plant opened in April after being shut down nearly 18 months for retooling. And the state had to kiss GM's ass so bad that they ended paying unemployment benefits above and beyond what a normal Tennessean would make. So over a thousand GM employees got paid 80% of their salary by the union contract, and the state of Tennessee kicked in the rest to almost give them full pay. I never heard of Nissan asking for that sweet of a deal.

I know a person who was making 95% of pay while they re-tooled the Saturn plant. BTW, guess what they re-tooled it for? Can't remember the name of the vehicle but if you guessed SUV you would be correct.
 

Fingolfin269

Lifer
Feb 28, 2003
17,948
34
91
Originally posted by: nkgreen
Originally posted by: bctbct

State lacks money to lure industrial development
Published: June 27, 2002
NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) -- Dwindling state money for economic development incentives is keeping Tennessee from luring major industrial projects, according to those trying to do the recruiting.

"We don't even have the cost of admission to the game," said Janet Miller, economic development director for the Nashville Area Chamber of Commerce.

The budget for Tennessee's chief economic development incentive program has been sliced by more than half -- from $16.5 million to $6.5 million, a move officials say prompted companies to bypass the Volunteer state and strike deals with Tennessee's neighbors instead.

In addition, a no-new-taxes budget being considered by the state legislature would cut funding by 42 percent for the Department of Economic and Community Development, which is responsible for luring business to Tennessee.

"We just can't get that aggressive at the state level. Kentucky, Alabama and Mississippi are all able to shoot us out of the water," said Randy Brewer, president of the Lawrenceburg/Lawrence County Chamber of Commerce.

In the past 18 months three large automotive companies that considered building or expanding a plant in Tennessee were drawn to other states offering pricey incentives.

Mississippi gave Nissan North America $295 million in incentives and more than $400 million in additional tax credits two years ago to build its $930 million truck plant in Canton, Miss. It added another $68 million incentive package last week and landed a $500 million expansion project that will increase total employment at the plant to 5,300.

Hyundai Motor Co. received $234 million in incentives from Alabama in April to build a $1 billion plant that will employ 2,000 people near Montgomery, Ala. It beat Kentucky, which offered $123 million in incentives.

Alabama also offered Toyota Motor Co. $29 million in economic incentives in 2001 to build its $220 million engine plant in Huntsville, Ala., instead of Clarksville, Tenn. The facility will employ about 350 people.

"It's frustrating," said George Halford, president and chief executive officer of the Clarksville/Montgomery County Economic Development Council.
Halford said Tennessee was unable to match Alabama's plan, despite Clarksville's attractive local package for tax exemptions.

In the past, Tennessee has given tax credits for large projects. But most of its economic incentives come through job training and infrastructure, such as roads and water and sewer lines.

"We lose because other states are willing to go to the well," said ECD Commissioner Tony Grande.

------

On the Net:

Tennessee Department of Economic and Community Development: http://www.state.tn.us/ecd/


Text


FWIW, Tennessee just beat out Alabama for a new VW plant a couple months ago. In Chattanooga I think.

Yeah, that article is extremely dated. The Volkswagon plant is under construction just outside of Chattanooga.
 

Squisher

Lifer
Aug 17, 2000
21,204
66
91
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: Squisher
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: heyheybooboo
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
The companies need to file chap 11 if they want to survive(if they really are as bad as they claim they are) and drop the dead weight. Obviously with a restructure, all areas will be trimmed or cut - this includes management.

More CAD loose-cannon propaganda...

I'm certain that the 'dead weight' first dropped will be 100s of billions of dollars to be picked up by the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (i.e., US Taxpayers).

So do you think they should get another 25B in bailout money? Any time they come back begging for more - are you going to use that same argument? How many times will it take for you to stop supporting a failed business model?

Where is this new management going to come from? Who is going to appoint new management? A bankruptcy judge? I don't think I've ever heard of one doing that before.
Are we talking about just the board of directors? I hope you don't think there is some farm club of experienced auto management waiting in the wings to be called up to the majors.

I would think if you took a perfectly successful company and swapped out management with a bunch similarly successful managers with no experience in that company there would be some steep learning curve that might doom the successful company to failure. Now, do it to one on the brink of bankruptcy, what is going to happen?

I understand that, but what does that have to do with the post you quoted?

Sorry, I thought you were calling for getting rid of the present management.


 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Squisher
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: Squisher
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: heyheybooboo
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
The companies need to file chap 11 if they want to survive(if they really are as bad as they claim they are) and drop the dead weight. Obviously with a restructure, all areas will be trimmed or cut - this includes management.

More CAD loose-cannon propaganda...

I'm certain that the 'dead weight' first dropped will be 100s of billions of dollars to be picked up by the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (i.e., US Taxpayers).

So do you think they should get another 25B in bailout money? Any time they come back begging for more - are you going to use that same argument? How many times will it take for you to stop supporting a failed business model?

Where is this new management going to come from? Who is going to appoint new management? A bankruptcy judge? I don't think I've ever heard of one doing that before.
Are we talking about just the board of directors? I hope you don't think there is some farm club of experienced auto management waiting in the wings to be called up to the majors.

I would think if you took a perfectly successful company and swapped out management with a bunch similarly successful managers with no experience in that company there would be some steep learning curve that might doom the successful company to failure. Now, do it to one on the brink of bankruptcy, what is going to happen?

I understand that, but what does that have to do with the post you quoted?

Sorry, I thought you were calling for getting rid of the present management.

Not necessarily. Are there areas where there is too much management? likely. Should management be retooled? Yes as it's obvious they didn't make the correct choices. However, that is only a piece of the problem pie here.
 

tgferg67

Member
Oct 23, 2002
118
4
81
Automotive CEO salary versus UAW labor costs are separate unlinked issues.
Automotive CEO/managment salaries are the going rate across the nation.
UAW workers rates are well above the market rate of manufacturing jobs in the U.S.

To change CEO salary you would require changes in the entire U.S., not just the automotive sector. UAW (manufacturing labor) problem is specific to the automotive industry.
 

Vette73

Lifer
Jul 5, 2000
21,503
9
0
Originally posted by: tgferg67
Automotive CEO salary versus UAW labor costs are separate unlinked issues.
Automotive CEO/managment salaries are the going rate across the nation.
UAW workers rates are well above the market rate of manufacturing jobs in the U.S.


To change CEO salary you would require changes in the entire U.S., not just the automotive sector. UAW (manufacturing labor) problem is specific to the automotive industry.



Are you that dumb or just a troll?


CEO's at GM, ford, etc.. make a LOT more then the CEO of toyota. So seems that are over paid.

Average pay for current GM workers is about the same and even lower in some cases then toyota workers when you add in bonus money toyota gives to it employees.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
5
0
Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Originally posted by: tgferg67
Automotive CEO salary versus UAW labor costs are separate unlinked issues.
Automotive CEO/managment salaries are the going rate across the nation.
UAW workers rates are well above the market rate of manufacturing jobs in the U.S.


To change CEO salary you would require changes in the entire U.S., not just the automotive sector. UAW (manufacturing labor) problem is specific to the automotive industry.



Are you that dumb or just a troll?


CEO's at GM, ford, etc.. make a LOT more then the CEO of toyota. So seems that are over paid.

Average pay for current GM workers is about the same and even lower in some cases then toyota workers when you add in bonus money toyota gives to it employees.

He may not be comparing UAW to Toyota.

He may be comparing UW to US Steel, GE, Boeing, Lockheed, Newport News

 

dartworth

Lifer
Jul 29, 2001
15,200
10
81
Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Originally posted by: tgferg67
Automotive CEO salary versus UAW labor costs are separate unlinked issues.
Automotive CEO/managment salaries are the going rate across the nation.
UAW workers rates are well above the market rate of manufacturing jobs in the U.S.


To change CEO salary you would require changes in the entire U.S., not just the automotive sector. UAW (manufacturing labor) problem is specific to the automotive industry.




Are you that dumb or just a troll?


CEO's at GM, ford, etc.. make a LOT more then the CEO of toyota. So seems that are over paid.

Average pay for current GM workers is about the same and even lower in some cases then toyota workers when you add in bonus money toyota gives to it employees.

He may not be comparing UAW to Toyota.

He may be comparing UW to US Steel, GE, Boeing, Lockheed, Newport News

i guess you missed this part of his quote..
UAW (manufacturing labor) problem is specific to the automotive industry.
 

bctbct

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2005
4,868
1
0
Good article on Tennesses tax incentives, good god they gave more corporate welfare than anyone.

Text

The only reference can find of the GM figure may be as much as 7% of 500 million (35 mil??)

 

bctbct

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2005
4,868
1
0
Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
Originally posted by: rudder



No mention of the tax breaks GM recently received to upgrade its Spring Hill, Tennessee manufacturing plant? This is on top of the huge tax incentives that originally brought the plant to Tennessee in the 80's. Tennessee and other southern states don't just court foreign auto plants, they try to attract domestic operations as well. There is just not as many new domestic plants being opened. But as I said... GM still gets the tax breaks especially when GM threatened to close the Tennessee plant if they did not get the incentives to upgrade.
The article was dated from 2002, so anything more recent would have required acutely accurate prognostication. ;)


Thats why I bolded the date.
 

tgferg67

Member
Oct 23, 2002
118
4
81
Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Originally posted by: tgferg67
Automotive CEO salary versus UAW labor costs are separate unlinked issues.
Automotive CEO/managment salaries are the going rate across the nation.
UAW workers rates are well above the market rate of manufacturing jobs in the U.S.


To change CEO salary you would require changes in the entire U.S., not just the automotive sector. UAW (manufacturing labor) problem is specific to the automotive industry.



Are you that dumb or just a troll?


CEO's at GM, ford, etc.. make a LOT more then the CEO of toyota. So seems that are over paid.

Average pay for current GM workers is about the same and even lower in some cases then toyota workers when you add in bonus money toyota gives to it employees.


I'm comparing CEO's of U.S. companies. The CEO of Toyota is in Japan. I don't agree with the salaries but the pay structure(market rate) exists all across the country. UAW employees make significantly over the market rate for manual labor in comparison to the whole country.

"Average pay" means nothing, how about the total compensation. This does not even count the ridiculous "protective" UAW rules that add addition cost. I've been in the plants(tool designer) and they(UAW) don't allow you to carry things over a certain weight(low), use a micrometer, plug things in, ect. They get a union worker specific to tasks because you are "taking" their jobs. As for calling me a dumb or a troll, have you been in UAW plants and seen whats going on??

Jobs banks. paying people 150k to retire because it's cheaper than to have them continue employment, union quoted plant work always 200% more expensive(quotes) than non-union, can't weed out bad employees, ect. Anyone with common sense can see it's totally out of hand.