UNIFIL: Israeli Troops Were in Own Territory When Lebanon Opened Fire

[Freshgeardude]

I am surprised. I expected LL, kylebeisme, and the likes to jump the gun and post on this topic, but in the end, look who is actually at fault for this, Lebanon.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/08/04/israeli-troops-territory-lebanon-opened/

DEIR EL-ZAHRANI, Lebanon -- U.N. peacekeepers said Wednesday a cypress tree an Israeli soldier was cutting down just before a border clash with Lebanese soldiers erupted was in Israeli territory, contradicting Lebanese claims that their frontier was breached.
The clash Tuesday left a senior Israeli officer, two Lebanese soldiers and a Lebanese journalist dead and was the most serious since Israel and the Iranian-backed Lebanese group Hezbollah fought a brief war in 2006. It was a stark reminder of how volatile the border remains, even though both sides appeared to be trying to restore calm and prevent an escalation.
The Israeli soldier was cutting down the tree -- something Israel does occasionally to improve its sight line into Lebanon -- when Lebanese forces opened fire. The Lebanese army and a witness said U.N. peacekeepers intervened to ask the Israeli to stop cutting the tree, but Israel refused. UNIFIL, the peacekeeping force in southern Lebanon, has not commented on that.
Both sides claimed the tree was in their territory.
Lebanon acknowledged Wednesday that the tree was south of an official, U.N.-drawn boundary known as the Blue Line separating the countries. The line was drawn in 2000 following the end of a two-decade Israeli occupation of south Lebanon that began with a war in 1982.

However Lebanese Information Minister Tarek Mitri said his country disputes the Blue Line demarcation in certain areas, including the village of Adeisseh where the clash took place, and saw Israel's act in as a clear provocation.
"UNIFIL established, however, that the trees being cut by the Israeli army are located south of the Blue Line on the Israeli side," said force spokesman Lt. Naresh Bhatt. He said the peacekeepers were still investigating the clash.
Israel said the U.N. announcement clearly corroborated its version of events.
"Our routine activity yesterday was conducted entirely south of the frontier on the Israeli side and that the Lebanese Army opened fire without any provocation or justification whatsoever," government spokesman Mark Regev said.

Complete disregard for human life, as always with islamic extremists.

I believe the order to fire (on lebanon's side) went up a chain of command. Lets see if anyone actually gets in trouble or even a slap on the wrist.


Also, in a followup to the incident,

http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=183685

WASHINGTON – Some members of Congress are threatening to reassess US aid to the Lebanese military following its border clash with Israel on Tuesday.

“To start shooting as they did – one person killed, one seriously injured – is a very serious move by the Lebanese army,” said Florida Rep. Ron Klein, who sits on the House Foreign Affairs Committee, in response to a question from The Jerusalem Post.

“It certainly is going to come up in our conversations in the Congress about the continued support of the Lebanese Army,” he said.

Klein was speaking by phone from Israel, where he happened to be visiting when the incident, which also left two Lebanese soldiers and a journalist dead, took place.

He noted that the UN had confirmed that Israel was operating in its territory while cutting down a tree along the border, when the Lebanese army opened fire.

Klein indicated the degree to which higher-ups had been involved would affect Congress’s view.

“If in fact it’s factually shown that this was a Lebanese government authorized action, I think a lot of members would be very concerned about continuing to provide military support to Lebanon,” he said. “I certainly would be.”

Last year, the US approved $100 million in assistance to the Lebanese military, as well as $109m. in economic aid and $20m. in anti-narcotics funds. The Obama administration has requested the same levels for 2011, with small increases for anti-narcotics, anti-terror and military training programs.

A State Department representative declined to respond to a Post query about whether the incident would affect US aid to Lebanon, or to otherwise address the concerns being expressed in Congress.

The subcommittee dealing with foreign operations has already approved the funds for 2011, but it will only be reviewed and voted on by the full Appropriations Committee once Congress returns from its summer recess.

“One of the purposes of aid to Lebanon is to professionalize its military so incidents like this do not happen.Congress will surely look closely at this assistance as the situation unfolds,” said one Democratic Capitol Hill aide in anticipating how the full committee review would go.

“Whenever there’s somebody who receives foreign aid of any kind from the United States who has a conflict with any of our close allies, especially in the Middle East, which is such a volatile region, you absolutely rethink US support,” a congressional staffer with the foreign operations subcommittee said.

But he echoed Klein’s position that the extent to which Tuesday’s shooting was authorized by superiors would affect the steps Congress takes.

“When you have the UN standing up for Israel, clearly the Lebanese army made a mistake,” he said.

“The question is, how high up does it go? Was it premeditated? Are the Lebanese soldiers going to be reprimanded?” he asked.

“If soldiers were out of line, that’s one thing. If it comes from the top, that’s another.”

But either way, the committee staffer pointed out that the realities of the Middle East would still likely result in some level of American aid directed to the Lebanese military.

“It doesn’t mean there’s going to be a certain reduction, because unfortunately for that region it’s the lesser of two evils.

We’d much rather work with the army than Hizbullah.”

good. lebanon doesnt deserve 100 million in US aid as long as they support hezbollah anyways


For the morons.

Both the tree and the fence were on Israel's side of the border. The fence Israel created does not necessarily define the border. Both Israel and Lebanon acknowledge that fact. It is very common for Israel to perform missions similar to this one.



I cant wait to hear how LL and the other terrorist fanboys try to twist the story lol

 

[JEDIYoda]

I am surprised. I expected LL, kylebeisme, and the likes to jump the gun and post on this topic, but in the end, look who is actually at fault for this, Lebanon.

You have a real good point!
But mind you this is cleart cut and there is no gray area for the pro-palestinian factions on this site to wallow in!!

 

[dahunan]

You have a real good point!
But mind you this is cleart cut and there is no gray area for the pro-palestinian factions on this site to wallow in!!

Hey fuck you propaganda whore

If you aren't with us you are against us.. real smart jerk...

Your reality lacks any middle ground.. so closed and perfect you chosen ones must feel?

 

[maddogchen]

4 lives over a stupid tree....idiots

 

[Patranus]

*Shocking*

Terrorist groups fire into Israel. What else is new?

 

[alphatarget1]

4 lives over a stupid tree....idiots

Seriously...

 

[Zebo]

4 lives over a stupid tree....idiots

LOL It's not over a tree. Lots of hate tree just got them close enough to shoot at.

 

[Freshgeardude]

4 lives over a stupid tree....idiots

Yea I know this is stupid. But this all Lebanon's fault. Israel had every right to retaliate

 

[Lemon law]

Its my understanding that the Israeli cutting the tree did so dangling from a crane suspended over the North side of a fence. Even if the fence was not the actual border, it had to look like a border incursion. Like waving a red flag at a bull. Does being proven correct later bring the dead back to life? Did the UN official making the border call have all the information or is he just guessing? But we also have to blame the tree for picking a bad spot to grow, maybe both sides can agree on that. Even if they can't agree on anything else.

But I agree, pissing human lives away over a tree is stupid, but no ever accused Israel or Lebanon of being able to smartly settle their differences. But stupidity does have a habit of begetting more stupidity. Einstein always suspected stupidity was infinite, and I do believe that to be true.

 

[MotF Bane]

Its my understanding that the Israeli cutting the tree did so dangling from a crane suspended over the North side of a fence. Even if the fence was not the actual border, it had to look like a border incursion. Like waving a red flag at a bull. Does being proven correct later bring the dead back to life? Did the UN official making the border call have all the information or is he just guessing? But we also have to blame the tree for picking a bad spot to grow, maybe both sides can agree on that. Even if they can't agree on anything else.

But I agree, pissing human lives away over a tree is stupid, but no ever accused Israel or Lebanon of being able to smartly settle their differences. But stupidity does have a habit of begetting more stupidity. Einstein always suspected stupidity was infinite, and I do believe that to be true.

Here comes the apologist.

 

[Lemon law]

Well, the New York times has a later article on the subject, and the the new point made is both side claim the same disputed border.

Israel sought UN permission to trim the given tree, Lebanon said no, and before the issue could be agreed on, Israeli soldiers jumped the gun and cut the tree anyway.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/05/world/middleeast/05mideast.html?_r=1&ref=middleeast

Its not like Israel could not have waited a few hours, but how wonderful, while four people get buried and their families moan and wail, Israeli and Lebanese leaders get to thump their chests and scream we were right.

While people of good sense have to realize the waste and senselessness of it all. Both sides acted badly again for the trillionth time. But then again, who keeps an accurate count.

 

[Lemon law]

sorry duplicate post

 

[Orignal Earl]

I always LOL at how you guys tell me not to trust a thing the UN says, one week.
And then to trust them the next

 

[CycloWizard]

$100 million to support some random country's military? And people can't figure out why people don't enjoy paying their taxes. WTF.

 

[Lemon law]

$100 million to support some random country's military? And people can't figure out why people don't enjoy paying their taxes. WTF.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Compared to what America lavishes on the Israeli military, 100 mil to Lebanon looks cheap.

 

[ZzZGuy]

Regardless of which side of the border the Israelis were on, the Lebanese opened fire over a tree.

Unless this was a isolated case of radical (religious nutjobs) soldiers, this shows the relationship Lebanon wants with Israel if they chose to shoot first rather then approach and confront the Israeli soldiers over what would clearly be yard work being done along the fence.

Many people have been saying that it would have looked like a incursion, but from all accounts there was no mistake that they were removing a tree(s) and at best planting spy cameras that if on the Lebanese side they could examine and use against Israel.

You may bring up the second Lebanon war but by allowing hezbollah, with what it was doing, to operate within their country they brought it upon themselves. Now they welcome hezbollah into their government, making them one and the same so when the next conflict comes all of Lebanon will be the battlefield. On top of that they allow hezbollah to dig in along the border with the intent of starting a new conflict (rockets do not win wars).

So the Lebanese are itching to kill a few Israelis.


As for the UN, Rwanda. That is all that needs to be said. The UN is not needed to go find the site of the Lebanese attack and use GPS and accurate maps to decide which side of the borders the Israelis were on.

LL, you may reply to my posts as you like, but I will not reply to you as your opinion is beyond worthless and not worth anyone's time.

 

[dahunan]

I always LOL at how you guys tell me not to trust a thing the UN says, one week.
And then to trust them the next

Thought the UN was the biggest anti-semite organization since the NAZIs.. that is what they always tell us.. now if propaganda suits their needs... Hey.. "the UN is honest and just"

 

[Jaskalas]

Thought the UN was the biggest anti-semite organization since the NAZIs.. that is what they always tell us.. now if propaganda suits their needs... Hey.. "the UN is honest and just"

Broken clocks...

 

[JEDIYoda]

Hey fuck you propaganda whore

If you aren't with us you are against us.. real smart jerk...

Your reality lacks any middle ground.. so closed and perfect you chosen ones must feel?

hahahaha thats the best you can do????
There is no middle ground in this.....

The tree was on the Israeli side....contrary to what the lemon says the link he posted did not support his claim that the Israeli cutting the tree did so dangling from a crane suspended over the North side of a fence.....

The picture in the article is NOT a crane is heavy machinery..

What is truly sad is even though Lemon Law claims to by impartial ( that is coming from a Palestinian sympathizer by the way) the truth evades him...so sad!!

 

[piasabird]

Why do Isreali's have to ask permission from the UN to cut their own tree down?

 

[Throckmorton]

Jon Stewart is right... they should have just moved the camera

 

[Lemon law]

Why do Isreali's have to ask permission from the UN to cut their own tree down?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Because its the UN troops who are trying to keep the peace in a tension filled border between two countries, and when both Israel and Lebanon claim the same little swath of territory the tree is growing on, it just plain common sense to allow the UN to talk to both sides, settle the matter so both sides are on the same page, and then cut the tree AFTER the matter is settled and if and only if the tree is on the Israeli side of the disputed border.

But no, as my NYT article showed, Israel did not wait, they just went ahead and cut the tree before the UN could get both sides on the same page. And if Israel would have waited for the UN peacekeepers to get the matter settled, then there would be no border incident thread to be writing about.

Hope that explains it to you Piasabird.

 

[Freshgeardude]

Its my understanding that the Israeli cutting the tree did so dangling from a crane suspended over the North side of a fence. Even if the fence was not the actual border, it had to look like a border incursion. Like waving a red flag at a bull. Does being proven correct later bring the dead back to life? Did the UN official making the border call have all the information or is he just guessing? But we also have to blame the tree for picking a bad spot to grow, maybe both sides can agree on that. Even if they can't agree on anything else.

But I agree, pissing human lives away over a tree is stupid, but no ever accused Israel or Lebanon of being able to smartly settle their differences. But stupidity does have a habit of begetting more stupidity. Einstein always suspected stupidity was infinite, and I do believe that to be true.

there is the twisting I was waiting for.

while I agree a crane over a border looks suspicious, its not israel's fault the lebanon troops didnt know where they were.

Also, there is suggestion that the order to fire on lebanon's side went up a chain of command.

UNIFIL Officials reviewed the border. they confirmed it. there is no "oh maybe" like you want to try and twist. You like to throw plenty of bullshit around.

this is more or less 100% Lebanon's fault.

Lebanese know the border isnt acurate to what the fence was. they should have shown more concern before firing, but what's a jewish soldier to a radical islamic anyways?

if you see fault in israel, its clear you are biased.

 

[sandorski]

Israelis were on their side of the Border, Tree was not. They reached across the Fence/Border to cut down the Tree. An Incursion was certainly made, but whether it was worthy of Gun Fire or not is another question.

 

[Jaskalas]

Jon Stewart is right... they should have just moved the camera

Perhaps Lebanon would have killed them for that as well.