Underfunded, Government considering scrapping Cash for Clunkers

[themusgrat]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Uhtrinity

Car sales have been down if not stalled.

Looks like Americans opened their wallets.

So those still with jobs jumped on this to get a new car.

Looks like a success story much to the bane of Republicans.

It's only too bad that the other 856bn in the stimulus package won't stimulate the economy in near the way that this did. They should shift some things around and put 10bn more into the program today. Car dealerships put money into advertising, people put money into cars (Detroit had a city wide party I'm betting), gas guzzlers got off the streets, Americans are driving safer cars that will cost them less money in repairs, junk yards got a ton of new metal.....

About the only people who lost out on this are the mechanics who bone you for fixing your old car.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Genx87
My sister is buying a car via this program. It sounds like a complete clusterfuck. Apparently the dealer is supposed to take immediate delivery of the clunker and blow glass through the engine to destroy it. Then crush the car. However if they do this before the money comes in from the govt it is possible the old car gets destroyed and the purchaser doesnt get a rebate.

The dealership my sister is buying the car from told her to keep the car until the funds come through. But good god can you imagine the lawsuits if cars are destroyed immediately then the govt backs out?

Radio station this morning reported that some of the dealers have it written in the contact (that most people don't read, lol) that if the government money didn't come through, you were responsible for paying it back to the dealer! :shocked:

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: TheSkinsFan
I'm not attacking "Democrats" here. Unlike you, I'm not a partisan tool -- I despise all politicians equally. None of them "represent" me, and all of them are functionally retarded when it comes to fiscal responsibility.

Give a carpenter a hammer and he's going to bang it on something!

 

[shortylickens]

By my math they should have been able to buy back 285,714 cars.
How many did they actually get?

 

[Kirby]

Originally posted by: Engineer
Radio station this morning reported that some of the dealers have it written in the contact (that most people don't read, lol) that if the government money didn't come through, you were responsible for paying it back to the dealer! :shocked:

LOL!!

 

[waggy]

funny. and people want the goverment in charge of health care? and vote on something they havent READ yet? i love it.


of course this ran out of money. it was a dumb idea. I been looking for a used car for my SIL who is living with us. i wanted to spend around $1k. up until this week they were everywhere for a decent price. guess what? the people either traded it in or jacked the price up. we looked at one car (a old buick) that the guy wanted $900 for. We went back to look at it again and he wanted $2k now because of the ability to trade it in for more.




not tomention how many want to bed in 6 months we will hear there was aloophole or something and the dealerships put hte "clunkers" on teh used car lot?

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: nkgreen

Originally posted by: Engineer
Radio station this morning reported that some of the dealers have it written in the contact (that most people don't read, lol) that if the government money didn't come through, you were responsible for paying it back to the dealer! :shocked:

LOL!!

<degenerategamblervoice>"We're the U.S. government! Come on... we're good for it!"

<dealer>"Uhh... maybe we should leave ourselves an out or two, just in case..."

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: Genx87
My sister is buying a car via this program. It sounds like a complete clusterfuck. Apparently the dealer is supposed to take immediate delivery of the clunker and blow glass through the engine to destroy it. Then crush the car. However if they do this before the money comes in from the govt it is possible the old car gets destroyed and the purchaser doesnt get a rebate.

The dealership my sister is buying the car from told her to keep the car until the funds come through. But good god can you imagine the lawsuits if cars are destroyed immediately then the govt backs out?

Radio station this morning reported that some of the dealers have it written in the contact (that most people don't read, lol) that if the government money didn't come through, you were responsible for paying it back to the dealer! :shocked:

Jesus

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo

Originally posted by: Uhtrinity

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Not $950, the link I had said $96 million has been spent and just over 22k vehicles, so it's only spent 1/10th.

But with the backlog they want to ensure they haven't exceeded 250,000. It's pretty clear that demand has been higher than expected.

This.

It's painful to see the auto industry in the shape it's in but at least this help move some inventory.

They are coming up on the 2010 model year and some folks are still trying to move new 2008 models off their lots

Mazda by me had two 2007 brand "new" CX7s for sale this January and at least as recently as Feb. Great price on them, but it turns out that the 2009 are now going for the same sub-20k price at another stealership. That is honestly a lot of vehicle for that.

Radio station this morning reported that some of the dealers have it written in the contact (that most people don't read, lol) that if the government money didn't come through, you were responsible for paying it back to the dealer!

This is smart of them and reasonable. On CNN a guy who got his car via this program suddenly didn't qualify after an EPA update this week. Stealership told him he could come back for his car or pay the $4500 difference.

waggyNow that the program is done, those prices will come down. I suppose they could continue the program, though and my money is on the fact that they will find more cash for it.

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Just another fine example of the government being totally unable to properly estimate budgets, costs and demands.

And people are clamoring to have the government run 1/6th of our economy, when they can't even properly manage a $1 billion program?

:roll:

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer
Just another fine example of the government being totally unable to properly estimate budgets, costs and demands.

And people are clamoring to have the government run 1/6th of our economy, when they can't even properly manage a $1 billion program?

:roll:

Hogwash... the problem here, obviously, is just that the right people weren't in charge .

 

[KK]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer
Just another fine example of the government being totally unable to properly estimate budgets, costs and demands.

And people are clamoring to have the government run 1/6th of our economy, when they can't even properly manage a $1 billion program?

:roll:

What about the tards up above that think it was successful? It's these morons that are too stupid to realize they are destroying this country.

 

[Uhtrinity]

From CNN's Ed Henry, Deirdre Walsh and Brianna Keilar
WASHINGTON (CNN) ? White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said Friday the extremely popular "cash for clunkers" program is still up and running at least through this weekend, and said Obama administration officials are working furiously behind the scenes with Congressional leaders to find extra money to extend the program for a longer time period.
"It's up and running," Gibbs told reporters in his office, adding that it "can, will and should" continue indefinitely.
Meanwhile, Sen. Debbie Stabenow of Michigan announced that lawmakers are closing in on a deal with the White House that would give the program, which allows consumers to trade in old cars for newer more fuel-efficient vehicles, an extra $2 billion to continue and expand it.

Was such a success they want to extend the program. (guess I'm a 'tard' or 'moron' for thinking so). I still think they need to increase the mpg requirements, or even require the purchased cars be manufactured in the US. <20 mpg mixed for the tradein, and require 30+ mpg mixed on the new car.

 

[exar333]

Why is is underfunded? Should the government subsidize all cars sold this year? They earmarked $1B for the program, it probably has been spent, what's the problem? It was said from the beginning that it would go as long as the money was spent, or Nov 1 (IIRC), whatever happened first.

 

[CitizenKain]

Originally posted by: KK

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer
Just another fine example of the government being totally unable to properly estimate budgets, costs and demands.

And people are clamoring to have the government run 1/6th of our economy, when they can't even properly manage a $1 billion program?

:roll:

What about the tards up above that think it was successful? It's these morons that are too stupid to realize they are destroying this country.

How is this destroying the country exactly? You apparently are head-tard of the rightwingers, so start explaining.

 

[SP33Demon]

Dam, I could have made 3K+ off this program but my old Buick gets too good mileage. Oh well.

 

[Uhtrinity]

Originally posted by: KK

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer
Just another fine example of the government being totally unable to properly estimate budgets, costs and demands.

And people are clamoring to have the government run 1/6th of our economy, when they can't even properly manage a $1 billion program?

:roll:

What about the tards up above that think it was successful? It's these morons that are too stupid to realize they are destroying this country.

I bet you don't have enough intellectual integrity to ever admit a (D) could possibly do something right. Blind partisans like you are the ones destroying the country.

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Originally posted by: KK

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer
Just another fine example of the government being totally unable to properly estimate budgets, costs and demands.

And people are clamoring to have the government run 1/6th of our economy, when they can't even properly manage a $1 billion program?

:roll:

What about the tards up above that think it was successful? It's these morons that are too stupid to realize they are destroying this country.

This isn't an R or D issue, though it was a Democrat-controlled Congress that passed and enacted this program. My point was that gigantic bureaucracies simply cannot be efficient or cost-effective. It's just not possible...too many hands in the pie, too much red tape. They couldn't even properly gauge the cost or demand for this $1 billion cash-for-clunkers program, which is absolutely tiny and simple compared to our nation's health care. If they can't properly administer a small program such as cash-for-clunkers, why in the world would anyone believe that they can get nationalized health care right? The government is notorious for being over-budget and inefficient. Look at Medicaid and Medicare!

I also don't believe in the principle of this cash-for-clunkers program. This wasn't "free" money that was being given out...this was all done with tax payer dollars. I also don't like the government meddling in the free-market. There are also numerous cases of abuse of the program...people trading in slightly older trucks for a brand new truck, for example, which gets a whopping 2 more MPG! I don't think the purpose of the program was for people to trade in a 1999 truck and get a new 2009 truck that is barely more gas-efficient, but the reality is that is what happened with this program.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: KK

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer
Just another fine example of the government being totally unable to properly estimate budgets, costs and demands.

And people are clamoring to have the government run 1/6th of our economy, when they can't even properly manage a $1 billion program?

:roll:

What about the tards up above that think it was successful? It's these morons that are too stupid to realize they are destroying this country.

This isn't an R or D issue, though it was a Democrat-controlled Congress that passed and enacted this program. My point was that gigantic bureaucracies simply cannot be efficient or cost-effective. It's just not possible...too many hands in the pie, too much red tape. They couldn't even properly gauge the cost or demand for this $1 billion cash-for-clunkers program, which is absolutely tiny and simple compared to our nation's health care. If they can't properly administer a small program such as cash-for-clunkers, why in the world would anyone believe that they can get nationalized health care right? The government is notorious for being over-budget and inefficient. Look at Medicaid and Medicare!

I also don't believe in the principle of this cash-for-clunkers program. This wasn't "free" money that was being given out...this was all done with tax payer dollars. I also don't like the government meddling in the free-market. There are also numerous cases of abuse of the program...people trading in slightly older trucks for a brand new truck, for example, which gets a whopping 2 more MPG! I don't think the purpose of the program was for people to trade in a 1999 truck and get a new 2009 truck that is barely more gas-efficient, but the reality is that is what happened with this program.

The program's purpose was two fold:

1. Stimulate the economy by stimulating auto sales.
2. Increase gas mileage and provide safer cars. (probably a little short on this but still not a 100% failure - just because it had a minimum 2mpg requrement does not mean that people always bought cars that only achieved 2mpg better).

Far better than giving 70 billion to GM/Chrysler directly.

Better stimulus than most of the rest of the stimulus plan.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer
I also don't believe in the principle of this cash-for-clunkers program. This wasn't "free" money that was being given out...this was all done with tax payer dollars. I also don't like the government meddling in the free-market. There are also numerous cases of abuse of the program...people trading in slightly older trucks for a brand new truck, for example, which gets a whopping 2 more MPG! I don't think the purpose of the program was for people to trade in a 1999 truck and get a new 2009 truck that is barely more gas-efficient, but the reality is that is what happened with this program.

To expand on this, and why many of us "free market fundies" don't like the government meddling in the free market, consider what Waggy pointed out: this program artificially inflated the prices within the used car market AND left a huge avenue of abuse ripe for the raping.

So when the left condemns guys like us for supporting free market principles, they only need to look at the CARS program to understand why.

 

[Carmen813]

Just an update: Me and the wife ended up being able to get the car, our rebate went through.

Woohoo!

As for those using this situation to compare it to healthcare, apples are not oranges. Stop being hacks.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: waggy
funny. and people want the goverment in charge of health care? and vote on something they havent READ yet? i love it.


of course this ran out of money. it was a dumb idea. I been looking for a used car for my SIL who is living with us. i wanted to spend around $1k. up until this week they were everywhere for a decent price. guess what? the people either traded it in or jacked the price up. we looked at one car (a old buick) that the guy wanted $900 for. We went back to look at it again and he wanted $2k now because of the ability to trade it in for more.




not tomention how many want to bed in 6 months we will hear there was aloophole or something and the dealerships put hte "clunkers" on teh used car lot?

That's gouging for you but it doesn't make a damn bit of difference because you would have had to own the car for a year to trade it in anyway.

The used car market is going up because more people are buying used cars and fewer new cars (to the point that many don't realize that sometimes you can get a new one with incentives cheaper than the 1 year old used version that they are buying). Demand for used cars has been up dramatically since the economy tanked (relative to new car sales). Fewer new car sales = fewer trade ins = fewer used cars = higher prices.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer
Just another fine example of the government being totally unable to properly estimate budgets, costs and demands.

And people are clamoring to have the government run 1/6th of our economy, when they can't even properly manage a $1 billion program?

:roll:

Well, they 'properly manage' far larger programs, like Medicare (Democrats also did little things like winning WWII, man on the moon and funding much of the internet creation).

And this is hardly terribly mismanaged - it was more popular than expected. For terribly mismanaged, have you checked, oh I dunno, healthcare insurance that costs 2.5 times the rest of the world for comparable quality service, better and worse in different areas? Or perhaps our financial sector which greatly increased its share of our economy up to 41% of all profits made in the country for what's an overhead industry, and oh by the way crashed the economy?

You're just someone who is blinded by ideology to spew the same parroted opinions regardless of the facts.

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: KK

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer
Just another fine example of the government being totally unable to properly estimate budgets, costs and demands.

And people are clamoring to have the government run 1/6th of our economy, when they can't even properly manage a $1 billion program?

:roll:

What about the tards up above that think it was successful? It's these morons that are too stupid to realize they are destroying this country.

This isn't an R or D issue, though it was a Democrat-controlled Congress that passed and enacted this program. My point was that gigantic bureaucracies simply cannot be efficient or cost-effective. It's just not possible...too many hands in the pie, too much red tape. They couldn't even properly gauge the cost or demand for this $1 billion cash-for-clunkers program, which is absolutely tiny and simple compared to our nation's health care. If they can't properly administer a small program such as cash-for-clunkers, why in the world would anyone believe that they can get nationalized health care right? The government is notorious for being over-budget and inefficient. Look at Medicaid and Medicare!

I also don't believe in the principle of this cash-for-clunkers program. This wasn't "free" money that was being given out...this was all done with tax payer dollars. I also don't like the government meddling in the free-market. There are also numerous cases of abuse of the program...people trading in slightly older trucks for a brand new truck, for example, which gets a whopping 2 more MPG! I don't think the purpose of the program was for people to trade in a 1999 truck and get a new 2009 truck that is barely more gas-efficient, but the reality is that is what happened with this program.

The program's purpose was two fold:

1. Stimulate the economy by stimulating auto sales.
2. Increase gas mileage and provide safer cars. (probably a little short on this but still not a 100% failure).

Far better than giving 70 billion to GM/Chrysler directly.

Better stimulus than most of the rest of the stimulus plan.

1. Stimulate the economy...at what cost? This program still cost $1 billion. The economy wasn't "stimulated" for free...it cost us money in the form of tax dollars; tax dollars that were taken from individuals and companies.

2. This point is dubious at best...due to numerous examples like the one I pointed out and many others. Smart people turned out in droves to take advantage of this poorly thought-out and implemented program.

I agree about it being better than giving more bailout money to GM/Chrysler, though I would argue that the government shouldn't be giving out any money and should stay the heck out of the free market.

I also totally agree about it being better than the "stimulus" plan. $787 billion dollars worth of "cash-for-clunkers" programs would have been better than the pet-project, lobbyist-payoff "stimulus" plan.

Though I still contend that no "stimulus" plan and no "cash-for-clunkers" would still be the best course of action.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: KK

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer
Just another fine example of the government being totally unable to properly estimate budgets, costs and demands.

And people are clamoring to have the government run 1/6th of our economy, when they can't even properly manage a $1 billion program?

:roll:

What about the tards up above that think it was successful? It's these morons that are too stupid to realize they are destroying this country.

This isn't an R or D issue, though it was a Democrat-controlled Congress that passed and enacted this program. My point was that gigantic bureaucracies simply cannot be efficient or cost-effective. It's just not possible...too many hands in the pie, too much red tape. They couldn't even properly gauge the cost or demand for this $1 billion cash-for-clunkers program, which is absolutely tiny and simple compared to our nation's health care. If they can't properly administer a small program such as cash-for-clunkers, why in the world would anyone believe that they can get nationalized health care right? The government is notorious for being over-budget and inefficient. Look at Medicaid and Medicare!

I also don't believe in the principle of this cash-for-clunkers program. This wasn't "free" money that was being given out...this was all done with tax payer dollars. I also don't like the government meddling in the free-market. There are also numerous cases of abuse of the program...people trading in slightly older trucks for a brand new truck, for example, which gets a whopping 2 more MPG! I don't think the purpose of the program was for people to trade in a 1999 truck and get a new 2009 truck that is barely more gas-efficient, but the reality is that is what happened with this program.

The program's purpose was two fold:

1. Stimulate the economy by stimulating auto sales.
2. Increase gas mileage and provide safer cars. (probably a little short on this but still not a 100% failure).

Far better than giving 70 billion to GM/Chrysler directly.

Better stimulus than most of the rest of the stimulus plan.

1. Stimulate the economy...at what cost? This program still cost $1 billion. The economy wasn't "stimulated" for free...it cost us money in the form of tax dollars; tax dollars that were taken from individuals and companies.

2. This point is dubious at best...due to numerous examples like the one I pointed out and many others. Smart people turned out in droves to take advantage of this poorly thought-out and implemented program.

I agree about it being better than giving more bailout money to GM/Chrysler, though I would argue that the government shouldn't be giving out any money and should stay the heck out of the free market.

I also totally agree about it being better than the "stimulus" plan. $787 billion dollars worth of "cash-for-clunkers" programs would have been better than the pet-project, lobbyist-payoff "stimulus" plan.

Though I still contend that no "stimulus" plan and no "cash-for-clunkers" would still be the best course of action.

And are you for the bank bailouts (including bonuses from said bailouts)?