Underachieving XP 1700+?

[KyleMac]

Specs:
Athlon XP 1700+, Abit KR7A-133, Crucial 256mb PC2100 DDR, Creative GeForce 2 GTS (27.50), Windows XP PRO.

The first feeling of "underachievment" was poor performance in game. RTCW in 1024x768 with everything at full gets about 20-50fps when walking around and much less + frequent freezes when the action gets going. I had a quick go at MOHAA as well and got about 30-60fps running around an empty level.

3D Mark 2001SE score was 3908 however according to the Online Results Browser I should be getting over 4500 at least.

I've talked to 2 other people with very similar specs to me and they both said that I should be able to get close to 100 fps constant in RTCW.

What important thing have I overlooked?

 

[BFG10K]

Do you have the latest BIOS and chipset drivers for your motherboard?

Also check your video control panel and make sure that FSAA, vsync and anisotropic filtering is disabled.

 

[jcmkk]

That video card is what is really holding you back. Your score isn't that low for your setup.

 

[human2k]

My 1ghz@1.2ghz with a GTS-V 32MB DDR is doing 50-90FPS at the resolution, something must be wrong, are you sure your cpu is set to correct parameters?

 

[dunkster]

Human2k has an excellent point. I think he's right - your cpu operating speed is set by BIOS to 1100MHz, an Abit BIOS 'feature'.

Many KR7-series have problems with BIOS incorrectly auto-identifying XP processors - and then defaulting to run at 1100MHz. My KR7A/R did this initially with my XP1600.

Open 'SoftMenu III Setup' BIOS page.
Set 'CPU Operating Speed' to 'User Define'.
Set 'Multiplier Factor' to 11 (for XP1700).
Set 'CPU FSB Clock' to 133 or whatever FSB you wish.

Confirm cpu operating speed with Sisoft Sandra or WCPUID utilities.

Hope this helps!

 

[KyleMac]

It seems to be a slowness in loading new things, if that makes any sense. I will use RTCW as an example since it's about the only game I've reinstalled.

Loading map - Fine, but not much faster than 700 but I do have a rubbish hdd (udma 66 I think, maybe even 33).
Map loaded, going into limbo menu - Freezes with repeating sound for about 5 seconds. Didn't happen on 700.
Selecting class - Freezes for a second or two to load the picture for each class. Didn't happen on 700.
Start of game - Crappy for a while but speeds up. Didn't happen on 700.
Walking through room - About 50fps+ constant. Slightly higher than 700.
Walking into a new room - Drops to 10fps and sometimes freezes for a while. Didn't happen on 700.
Lots of action - Goes crappy like the 700 did, but freezes aren't as long (on my old 700 it could freeze for 10s, but only about 0.5s now).

What could it be?

 

[KyleMac]

dunkster, you seem to have replied just before I did.

It is running at 1.47ghz. I had the problem you described before but fixed it.

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=27&threadid=729566&highlight_key=y

 

[dunkster]

In that case, I agree that you have problems with your video card - or card driver or possibly driver/OS conflict.

My system is quite similar to yours (except I use Win98SE OS) and action flows freely in RTCW at 1024X768, regardless of scene detail, movement, etc. I use the 23.11 driver.

All I can suggest is perhaps replacing your video card driver. Perhaps the driver you're using is incompatible with XinXP OS. I can't help with any WinXP OS.

Hope this helps!

 

[jcmkk]

The loading times have nothing to do with your CPU. It is your hard drive that decides how fast you load stuff.

 

[KyleMac]

In XP I've so far used 27.40 and 23.11, no noticeable difference.

dunkster, what are your exact specs and any benchmark numbers I can use to compare with?


EDIT: Can you give me a run down of EVERY driver I should install/update such as all those individual mobo infs.

 

[KyleMac]

Could it be RAM? I doubt that 256mb DDR is too little but maybe it's setup wrong.

 

[KyleMac]

Been talking to people on IRC about it and the only theory that could be followed up is:

<LordHavoc> KyleMac: the problems you describe sound like a severe AGP stall
<LordHavoc> KyleMac: something is freaking out when it tries to transfer to the graphics card
<LordHavoc> KyleMac: it might be operating in PCI mode if the AGP settings are not properly configured

 

[MadRat]

Is your harddrive sharing a cable with another device? The IDE channel switches to the speed of the slower device.

 

[KyleMac]

My HDD is on its own cable. I don't care much about the load times, I want to get the ingame performance the way it should be.

 

[MadRat]

I just noticed the resolution you are at, 1024x768. Those are decent framerates for such a high resolution. You have a lowend GF2 card, and it isn't rated anywheres near a full-blown GF2. If you compare the GF2GTS to the GF2Pro then you'll see that even that card makes your present card look pretty neutered.

 

[NateSLC]

<< Is your harddrive sharing a cable with another device? The IDE channel switches to the speed of the slower device. >>



That is not true anymore. I know my 60GXP is not running in PIO 4 mode along with the CD-ROM it's sharing with.

 

[christoph83]

I just noticed the resolution you are at, 1024x768. Those are decent framerates for such a high resolution. You have a lowend GF2 card, and it isn't rated anywheres near a full-blown GF2. If you compare the GF2GTS to the GF2Pro then you'll see that even that card makes your present card look pretty neutered

Going to have to agree with you on this one . Looks like your video card is holding you back.

 

[KyleMac]

<< I just noticed the resolution you are at, 1024x768. Those are decent framerates for such a high resolution. You have a lowend GF2 card, and it isn't rated anywheres near a full-blown GF2. If you compare the GF2GTS to the GF2Pro then you'll see that even that card makes your present card look pretty neutered. >>



I also agreed with you when I read this and decided to turn down to 800x600. As soon as the map loaded I realised that it was still as bad. The limbo menu took several seconds to load and several seconds to select a class, both of which did not happen on my 700 (note: in 800x600 I am now running at the exact same settings as on my old athlon 700). The FPS is higher (70+ all the time) but the freezes when entering new areas are longer, much longer. After running about the level for a while I noticed that it was running much better and the only real problem it had was entering areas for the first time. When I had had enough I pressed escape to bring up the menu and the game froze for almost 20 seconds, this never happened before. All this would suggest that it is having problems loading new textures or whatever it needs. I remember a very similar problem in UT on my old 233 that was resolved by upgrading to 64mb ram.

The basic points:
FPS is higher in 800x600.
Freezes are longer in 800x600. The freezes render the FPS useless whatever it is.
RTCW is now running in the same settings as on my old Athlon 700. Although the FPS average is about 20 higher it is unplayable due to the lengthy freezes. It only froze on my 700 during intense action. By "intense" I mean multiple air strikes, several players on screen at once, grenades going off, flame throwers, and so on. It freezes on my 1466 by going into a new room.

 

[MadRat]

My XP Pro test machine eats 190mb right off the bat. Perhaps you nailed your own solution, more memory!

 

[dullard]

This is a long shot, but is there a significant difference when sound is turned off?

 

[KyleMac]

Anyone know the command line to start RTCW without sound? It's not the simple "-nosound" that quake has.

 

[dullard]

Sorry I don't play RTCW. The problems you described are likely to be one of the three most common gaming problems:
A) Slow video card,
B) Not enough memory,
C) Sound problems.



<< Loading map - Fine, but not much faster than 700 but I do have a rubbish hdd >>

Loading is usually 50% HD and 50% CPU; however, since you have a fast CPU and slow HD this result is expected.


<< Map loaded, going into limbo menu - Freezes with repeating sound for about 5 seconds. >>

Either out of memory or sound issues.


<< Selecting class - Freezes for a second or two to load the picture for each class. >>

Either out of memory or sound issues if different sounds play when selecting class.


<< Start of game - Crappy for a while but speeds up. >>

Could be all three.


<< Walking through room - About 50fps+ constant. >>

Most likely video card limitation (possibly the other two as well).


<< Walking into a new room - Drops to 10fps and sometimes freezes for a while. >>

Most likely memory problem but could be sound issue if there is different sound effects/music in new rooms.


<< Lots of action - Goes crappy like the 700 did >>

Most likely video card limitation.

Two things come to mind. First with Win XP you can easily run out of memory. There is a switch to have XP set aside about 64MB of memory for each user. That means if you have 4 users then you have no memory left for games. This was supposed to make logining in fast, but with most computers it just eats up far too much memory and is a big waste. Second it could be a sound issue. Some poorly programed games use far far too much processor time with sound effects/music. Anytime I see trouble like yours, my first step is to disable sound and see if that helps. If RTCW doesn't have a sound disable option, then you can't do that easy test. I've also seen Athlons perform like crap (if they work at all) with some sound cards (Sound Blaster comes to mind). You didn't mention which card you had, so you might try removing the card and retesting the game.

 

[KyleMac]

I took the soundcard out. Definately an improvement in RTCW, much less and much shorter freezes but they are still there. I ran 3dm 2001se again and no change. Problem is that my soundcard wont work now. I don't know if it's put in right since it never fit right.

Current specs:
Athlon XP 1700+ 1.47ghz, Abit KR7A-133, 256mb pc2100 ddr, GeForce 2 GTS, Windows XP PRO, Hercules MuseXL soundcard.

Old specs:
Athlon 700, MSI 6191, 384mb pc100 sdram, GeForce 2 GTS, Windows 2000, onboard PCI128 soundcard.

The current specs aren't performing much better (worse in some cases) than the old specs.


I was recently given £100 so I can afford another upgrade. In total I have about £165 ($234) now.
£50 ($71) (-£20 if I send my MuseXL back) for Audigy Player OEM
£60 ($85) for another 256mb DDR
£150 ($213) for GeForce 3 Ti200
I could start saving for a GF4 Ti4200 but if it's expected to sell for $200 it will probably sell here for about £200 ($284) or more.

What should I do?

EDIT: I got the sound working and I just spent about 10 mintues running around Depot, which I consider to be one of the biggest maps in RTCW. By the end it was running perfectly anywhere.

 

[KyleMac]

Just been on my friends comp.

Thunderbird 1ghz, don't know his mobo, 256mb pc133 sdram, 3D Power GeForce 3 Ti200, Windows XP Pro, Hercules MuseXL soundcard.

His computer beats mine easily. 5500 in 3dm 2001se (compared to my 3900) and smooth gameplay in RTCW at 1280x960. Does the GF3 really make that much of a difference?

 

[KyleMac]

I now have MoHAA reinstalled. Everything at full (including the stuff in advanced), 1024x768. No performance increase at all over my 700.