Under $400 subwoofer (WAS: a lot of other things)

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scootermaster

Platinum Member
Nov 29, 2005
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I would consider the Energy S10.3 or Outlaw Audio M8.

Both of those look promising. I've only spent a couple of minutes reading reviews but it seems the Energy is discontinued (???) and has some QC issues. The Outlaw, which seems perfect (8" driver, smaller, more musical) has the disadvantage of being downward firing. I live on the second floor of my apartment complex. Luckily, there aren't any bedrooms below me (just the kitchen, actually) but i wonder if that's a good idea.

Thanks a ton for the suggestions, and I'll keep researching!
 

scootermaster

Platinum Member
Nov 29, 2005
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/H100-Premie...89?pt=Speakers_Subwoofers&hash=item48375ac451

It says PA-120 but you'll probably end up receiving the Bic H100 if you order it. They will accept a "Make an offer" bid at $220 and shipping is free, and you may also dodge tax.

I currently use the H100 and I have no complaints about it, especially for music. As long as your crossover is low enough (goes for any sub), it'll do just fine. Fit and finish is really quite good; much better than I expected for its price.

I'm not sure what you mean here, in terms of what you'd be "buying" and what would actually be delivered. The H100 seems nice, and I think I looked at that earlier, but it seems to be almost overkill for my bedroom (although I might, later on in life, shift it to HT duty with my BA Lynfield towers, where I'm sure it'd shine). I think a smaller sub that's more music oriented would be better.

But I'm certainly willing to be convinced otherwise! So, care to explain a little more what's going on with that ebay seller?
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,480
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Both of those look promising. I've only spent a couple of minutes reading reviews but it seems the Energy is discontinued (???) and has some QC issues. The Outlaw, which seems perfect (8" driver, smaller, more musical) has the disadvantage of being downward firing. I live on the second floor of my apartment complex. Luckily, there aren't any bedrooms below me (just the kitchen, actually) but i wonder if that's a good idea.

Thanks a ton for the suggestions, and I'll keep researching!

Firing direction doesn't matter. LFE is nondirectional.
 

Howard

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
47,982
10
81
I'm not sure what you mean here, in terms of what you'd be "buying" and what would actually be delivered. The H100 seems nice, and I think I looked at that earlier, but it seems to be almost overkill for my bedroom (although I might, later on in life, shift it to HT duty with my BA Lynfield towers, where I'm sure it'd shine). I think a smaller sub that's more music oriented would be better.

But I'm certainly willing to be convinced otherwise! So, care to explain a little more what's going on with that ebay seller?
Well the title of the auction contains both "PA-120" and "H100" which are different subs from different manufacturers, so I think whichever one you get is a crapshoot. Both are good subs, though. I ordered from that exact page myself and got an H100. YMMV. Email the vendor and see what he says? You won't go wrong either way.

What's good for HT may or may not be good for music, or vice versa, but you can bet that for a sub, bigger is always better, regardless of the intended source.

My two cents on sub superiority for HT and music playback:

1) Massive bass horn built into the room
2) Almost as good - large tapped horn or partial size front horn
3) Medium-sized T-TQWT (any of bjorno's builds on diyAudio) or LLT (the large sonosubs on AVS forum)
4) the other stuff.

Digital EQ is usually a must-have to get the best out of any bass system. On top of that, there are variations in setup such as these:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=837744 and http://mehlau.net/audio/dba/

http://mehlau.net/audio/multisub_geddes/
 
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Ruger22C

Golden Member
Sep 22, 2006
1,079
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"What's good for HT may or may not be good for music, or vice versa, but you can bet that for a sub, bigger is always better, regardless of the intended source."

Not if:

You don't have the cash to spend on the bigger sub, because larger and the same quality costs more.

You don't have the space to build a large box to match it.
 

Howard

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
47,982
10
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"What's good for HT may or may not be good for music, or vice versa, but you can bet that for a sub, bigger is always better, regardless of the intended source."

Not if:

You don't have the cash to spend on the bigger sub, because larger and the same quality costs more.

You don't have the space to build a large box to match it.
That's fairly trivial. To the extent that budget and space allow, bigger is always better.

Did you really need me to clarify that for you?
 

Ruger22C

Golden Member
Sep 22, 2006
1,079
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You do.

Some people think that a 12" is better than an 8" just because it's a 12".
 

Howard

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
47,982
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But how can all else be equal?
Off the top of my head I'd say that several commercially-available 12" subs share motors with their smaller 10" brothers, for example, or 15" with 12". EDIT: I was speaking in general, anyway, meaning bump up Sd (Mmd goes up proportionately of course) and keep BL(x), BL(i), Kms(x), Le(x), Le(i) the same.
Some one has his panties in a bunch.
I really don't understand the propensity for hit-and-run tactics nowadays. Shame on you.
 
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scootermaster

Platinum Member
Nov 29, 2005
2,411
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Ladies, ladies...settle down!

It's amazing what you get in some of these [supposed] "audiophile" threads. It's an interesting mix of agenda, cognitive dissonance and helpful information.

It's just difficult to say something [seemingly] simple like: "I'd like to know the best subwoofer for under $250, pair with Arx A1s on an old Pioneer receiver, that is to be used primarily for music in a 12x14 room on the second floor, that my girlfriend will buy for me as a Christmas gift" and get a reasonable answer.

Now, while "best" is obviously subjective you get a lot of the following:

1). "Any subwoofer under $300/$3000/$30,000 is going to sound like crap, so who gives a shit what you get? Also, while we're at it, why don't you go fuck yourself? Your mother's a whore!"

2). "You should build one! That's what I did! Here's a link to my build blog! Feel free to click on the ads in the sidebar. Be sure to remember to tell your girlfriend to buy a big enough drop-cloth. I got a smaller one and ended up staining the carpet a little bit. If your girlfriend has hardwood floors this won't be a problem"

3). "Check Craigslist! I once spent a night camping with a one-eyed sailor who spoke in hushed tones about Ye Ol' Craigslist Find of Aught-six; when one man, braving all manner of harsh condition, triumphed against the odds and found a Nad M2 for seventy two-cents. All he had to do was defeat the Kracken! Tell your girlfriend to pack her trident"

4). Guy One: "I like the Polk PSW10 sub for a $250 budget." Guy Two: "How could you like that one? I demoed the Thunderbolt by Alon in a hermetically sealed listening room once when I worked at Nasa and it BLEW the Polk out of the water! Hey everyone, don't listen to Guy One, he's a moron! His mother's a whore! Anyway, just save up a little more and get the Thunderbolt. You'll be glad you did!"

5). "I love Bose!"

Okay, so I made that last one up, but the other four are pretty much standard issue answers.

Now, lest you think me stupid, allow me to say I understand two things are at play here. First off, I'm asking for help, and none of y'alls getting paid for this, so I appreciate it whatever "advice" people can give.

Secondly, I understand price/performance isn't linear. There are some times when it makes sense to say "Listen, you can do MUCH better for yourself if you spend 10-30% more. Here's a link to reviews that show that for your application, you'll end up much happier in the long run with...." But people rarely frame it like that, and while there probably isn't any hard and fast rule, if you're going to go outside someone's price range by more than 25% (ish), you're not really answering their question, you're answering something else entirely.

But really, sound quality or no, my girlfriend's not building me a sub. Nor is she gonna go demo used equipment all over the greater Los Angeles urban area.

Anyway, it's just funny what comes out in this (and other) audio equipment threads. Luckily, I take all of it with a grain of salt and a good laugh.

For those of you who offered good suggestions in the $150-$300 range, thank you, and I'll be following up on your suggestions. If you have any more, I'm all ears.
 
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gorb

Golden Member
Feb 25, 2011
1,100
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Here's an old review from Ed Mullen (prior to him moving to SVS):
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_12_2/polk-psw-505-subwoofer-4-2005.html

And here's an old review from hometheatermag of an Energy RC system with the S10.3:
http://www.hometheater.com/content/...oisseur-rc-70-speaker-system-ht-labs-measures

The S10.3 digs quite a bit deeper than the PSW505 based on the above reviews, although measurement protocol was different so it's not easy to compare. Also, there are no numbers on the Energy's max output like there are for the Polk (not that anybody should expect an SPL monster from a cheap subwoofer). Subjective sound quality comments in both reviews indicate the subs are decent though.
 

SithSolo1

Diamond Member
Mar 19, 2001
7,740
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At 40-45% volume, the S10.3 is enough for my bedroom computer setup and sounds good to my ear. Currently used 60/30/10 for music/gaming/movies. For reference the room is roughly 1750 cubic feet.
 

scootermaster

Platinum Member
Nov 29, 2005
2,411
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Updated the OP with subwoofer options. Got the Arx A1s. They rule. Considering spending the money on an integrated amp/DAC, since I actually get decent bass response from just the Arx and a sub may be overwhelming from where I sit.
 

Howard

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
47,982
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I thought the sub would be a gift?

Can you borrow someone's measurement setup? My guess is that you're going to have a broad rise in response from 100-300 Hz due to excess baffle step. If that's the case, I would measure it and take care of it with some EQ (foobar has a parametric equalizer you can use).
 
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scootermaster

Platinum Member
Nov 29, 2005
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I thought the sub would be a gift?

Can you borrow someone's measurement setup? My guess is that you're going to have a broad rise in response from 100-300 Hz due to excess baffle step. If that's the case, I would measure it and take care of it with some EQ (foobar has a parametric equalizer you can use).

It is. My father has graciously offered to contribute for the holidays, as well as my girlfriend. I also sold my old Powerbook G4 and got some money that I decided I would put toward this whole operation.

And no, I highly doubt I know anyone who has that sort of setup. I barely know enough people who can walk around without drooling or running into things.
 

Howard

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
47,982
10
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It is. My father has graciously offered to contribute for the holidays, as well as my girlfriend. I also sold my old Powerbook G4 and got some money that I decided I would put toward this whole operation.

And no, I highly doubt I know anyone who has that sort of setup. I barely know enough people who can walk around without drooling or running into things.
Oh, you mean a gift for you, not for someone else.

Why not try building something yourself? You might enjoy it and you'll get more performance/dollar doing it. If you've got space to play around with I'd definitely recommend it.
 

scootermaster

Platinum Member
Nov 29, 2005
2,411
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Oh, you mean a gift for you, not for someone else.

Why not try building something yourself? You might enjoy it and you'll get more performance/dollar doing it. If you've got space to play around with I'd definitely recommend it.

I understand that, but I'm not interested in that right now. Amongst other reasons, I just don't have space for those sorts of tools at my current residence.

Anyway, I'll probably take this over to AVS forums, unless anyone else has some last-minute sage wisdom.
 

scootermaster

Platinum Member
Nov 29, 2005
2,411
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For what it's worth, I bought an Elemental Designs eD A3s-250. Should be here in a couple of weeks (hopefully sooner!)
 

gar655

Senior member
Mar 4, 2008
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For what it's worth, I bought an Elemental Designs eD A3s-250. Should be here in a couple of weeks (hopefully sooner!)

While you were browsing at AVS did you not read the ED thread? You might get it in a couple of weeks, a couple of months or never.