Under $400 subwoofer (WAS: a lot of other things)

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scootermaster

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Nov 29, 2005
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UPDATE: Got the Arx A1s. They're pretty freakin' awesome. Upgraded my subwoofer budget to around $350, shipped. Decided Emotiva Ultra 12 is the PERFECT sub for my application, but am pretty freakin' heartbroken that it was available for $329 about a week before I started looking, and now is completely discontinued. Sucks. Considering other options:

- Outlaw LFM-1 Compact (if it goes on sale)
- HSU STF-2 (Would like it to go on sale, but I can do local pickup, so I'll save on shipping)
- Elemental Designs A3S - 250 (don't know a lot about it, but it's sealed and custom built)
- Not getting a sub at all and spending the money on an integrated amp/DAC for my Macbook Pro (ideas?)

Anyway, that's where we're at. Thanks for all your help, and if anyone has any words of wisdom/experience with any of the above, I'm all ears.


Old stuff:
Title really says it all. I have this ollllld pair of Aura Wave 2.1 speakers I got from Costco in the late 90's and while they blow away most computer speakers (three-way satellites, wood enclosures, etc) they're long in the tooth and have started to buzz. (Previous to that, I had an old pioneer receiver and some 30+ year old KLH speakers that're still wonderful, but they're just toooo big for a desk situation)

So I need to replace them with something. As the title says, I might watch a movie on my computer every now and again, but that's not really important. I listen to music all the time, through my MBP and FW sound interface. Most music is (now) 320kps encoded MP3s, but will shortly be a lot of lossless audio. Space isn't at a huge premium, but something self-powered and not requiring a receiver would probably be best. $350 is a somewhat soft limit, but I don't think I'm interested in finding a normally $800 pair of speakers on craigslist for $450 or whatever, like people sometimes suggest.

So, what do you think is a good bet? Klipsch Pro Media 2.1? M-Audio B8Xa? B5Xa? Audioengine A5B? Something else entirely? Harmon Kardon Audiosticks? Something from Logitech? Two tuna cans?

Thanks for your thoughts!
 
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scootermaster

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Nov 29, 2005
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Astrallite said:
Acculine A1s + an integrated amp

http://www.theaudioinsider.com/product_info.php?products_id=65

Did very well in this review that included Ascend Sierras, Swan D2.1SEs, B&W 805S, Dana 630i, AV123 X-LS, SVS SCS-01, PSB Image B25, NHT Classic Two, among others:

http://www.affordableaudio.org/aa2007-10.pdf
Click to expand...

Okay, if I went this route, what's a good suggestion for an integrated amp? I'm not real hip to separates (even though this only sorta barely qualifies) so I wouldn't really know where to begin, (unless we're talking about solid state guitar amps =] )

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll look in to these. The early leader in the clubhouse, for those of you scoring at home is the Audioengines. I'm not sure the M-Audio's make a lot of sense.

Edit: After googling around for a bit, we're sort of right back where we started; people suggesting not even to bother with integrated amps and use a cheaper (but high quality) receiver. Now, I'm not sure how the A1's compare to KLH speakers from the seventies (and, actually, I think I found them. If they're not these, they're very similar http://www.ebay.com/itm/NICE-KLH-MO...tronics_R2&hash=item2eb961769f#ht_1372wt_1023 ) but, honestly, I doubt they're going to be that much better. Which sorta makes the whole exercise pointless, I guess. Doesn't seem to make much sense to spend $300+ just cuz they're smaller, y'know?

Further edit: So maybe they will sound better. But unless I can find an awesome amp for $75ish (or they'll really sound wonderful paired with my old Pioneer receiver -- roughly this, I think http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Pio...vers_Tuners&hash=item3cbed10142#ht_500wt_1053) I'm not sure they're a good match. So what's a good amp to get, then? Will the Pioneer work just fine?
 
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alcoholbob

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May 24, 2005
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Rotting foam surrounds + dying capacitors...won't sound the same today as it did in the 70s.

As far as amp I think you can get a refurb or something on ebay, I've seen HK 3390 stereo receivers go for $150 on ebay. Alternatively you can get good deals on craigslist. I wouldn't get something too old unless it's been restored recently.
 
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scootermaster

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Nov 29, 2005
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Astrallite said:
Rotting foam surrounds + dying capacitors...won't sound the same today as it did in the 70s.

As far as amp I think you can get a refurb or something on ebay, I've seen HK 3390 stereo receivers go for $150 on ebay. Alternatively you can get good deals on craigslist. I wouldn't get something too old unless it's been restored recently.
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Yeah, I'm having a hard time deciding between those Audioengine A5s and the unpowered A1 bookshelf speakers (+the aforementioned Pioneer receiver, unless someone has a better idea for a reasonably priced amp). Doesn't seem like there really are that many options for "desktop separates", but I guess that's not surprising. I'm also wondering if the DAC in my audio interface (this: http://www.miglia.com/products/audio/harmonyaudio/) is going to be a limiting factor.

So, any way of breaking the tie, here? I can likely go to Guitar Center and listen to the A5s (assuming they have them in stock) but I doubt I'll be able to listen to the Arx A1s anywhere. Also, is there really anything in the price range for an amp other than a). used/craigslist or b). this thing: http://www.amazon.com/Dayton-DTA-100...475441&sr=1-8?

Do reasonably priced DAC/pre/amp desktop units exist? I think I've seen a couple, but they're all $500, so that's not really gonna work. But if not, are there other desktop amps? And if not to that, then Pioneer + Arx or A5s?

Help!
 
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mshan

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Nov 16, 2004
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I own Audio Engine a2 and think they are highly musical (great if you don't need alot of bass and high spl).

Other more heretical suggestion is to buy these entry level Sony headphones and see how happy you are using them with the integrated headphone output of your Macbook Pro: http://www.amazon.com/Sony-MDR-V6-Mo...2614813&sr=8-1

I decided to buy them on a whim because of praise over at Head-Fi and how they have essentially been in production for over 20 years. Yes, they are slightly coarse, slightly boom and sizzle, but there also seems to be something really musical about them (I use them with 7G iPod Classic). I think they must do something right in terms of timing of music, and fairly neutral in terms of overall character. If you focus on this or that particular gear head aspect of sounds, you can find lots of faults. If you just want to enjoy the music, you might end up being pleasantly surprised, especially with clean, neutral, mass market audio output like in your computer or my iPod Classic...
 
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scootermaster

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Nov 29, 2005
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mshan said:
I own Audio Engine a2 and think they are highly musical (great if you don't need alot of bass and high spl).

Other more heretical suggestion is to buy these entry level Sony headphones and see how happy you are using them with the integrated headphone output of your Macbook Pro: http://www.amazon.com/Sony-MDR-V6-Mo...2614813&sr=8-1

I decided to buy them on a whim because of praise over at Head-Fi and how they have essentially been in production for over 20 years. Yes, they are slightly coarse, slightly boom and sizzle, but there also seems to be something really musical about them (I use them with 7G iPod Classic). I think they must do something right in terms of timing of music, and fairly neutral in terms of overall character. If you focus on this or that particular gear head aspect of sounds, you can find lots of faults. If you just want to enjoy the music, you might end up being pleasantly surprised, especially with clean, neutral, mass market audio output like in your computer or my iPod Classic...
Click to expand...

Thanks a lot for the suggestion. Sounds nice, but I'm not really interested in headphones at all. I was leaning toward the Arx, but now I'm not so sure. One benefit of the A1s [was] that they were $50 cheaper, but apparently they're $250 + $50 shipping, so now they're exactly the same out the door as the Audioengine, but without the hassle of having to find an external amp (and with, presumably, better sound quality).

One issue is that these are going to be about at MOST 3.5-4 feet away from me. Luckily I have an Ikea Jerker with the side shelves, so I can position them an just about the right height, but that's pretty close to your speakers, especially if they're not specifically near-field monitors. Not sure how that'll effect the sound, but it's something for me to consider.

Anyone have any more thoughts?
 
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alcoholbob

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May 24, 2005
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I bought a pair of A5s for my dad look great and an integrated unit. But they aren't going to be in the same class acoustically with a speaker in its price range + an amp.

You need to realize you are paying for:
1) DSP and Active Crossover
2) Power Amplifier
3) Gloss Finish
4) Convenience of it put all together for you
5) What's left for the drivers

The quality of drivers between the A5s and the Acculines is going to be fairly large.
 
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scootermaster

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Nov 29, 2005
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Yeah, baring something weird happening I'm gonna go with the Arx A1s. I'm thinking about getting a sub. I know nothing about subs going from cheapish receivers, as my BA Lynnfields 8" drivers and I've never needed more. So a couple of more questions:

1). What do you recommend for a sub-$200 sub? I've heard good things about that Dayton. What about the Polk? Something else?

2). Presumably these are crossed-over in the sub, right? I can't imagine that Pioneer has any sort of LFE/crossover support. Is that going to in any way influence or impede the sound quality of the A1s, is it?

I can alms taste these speakers! Can't wait!

(Postscript: In other news, I e-mailed TAI asking them some questions about placement and if the ribbon tweeter is a good idea for a desktop application, but they haven't written back so far. I'm surprised, since it seems like Jon Lane is all over the Internet wherever these speakers come up)
 
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Howard

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
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scootermaster said:
Yeah, baring something weird happening I'm gonna go with the Arx A1s. I'm thinking about getting a sub. I know nothing about subs going from cheapish receivers, as my BA Lynnfields 8" drivers and I've never needed more. So a couple of more questions:

1). What do you recommend for a sub-$200 sub? I've heard good things about that Dayton. What about the Polk? Something else?

2). Presumably these are crossed-over in the sub, right? I can't imagine that Pioneer has any sort of LFE/crossover support. Is that going to in any way influence or impede the sound quality of the A1s, is it?

I can alms taste these speakers! Can't wait!

(Postscript: In other news, I e-mailed TAI asking them some questions about placement and if the ribbon tweeter is a good idea for a desktop application, but they haven't written back so far. I'm surprised, since it seems like Jon Lane is all over the Internet wherever these speakers come up)
Click to expand...
Ribbon tweeters have very poor vertical dispersion. Do you have any way to elevate the ribbon to ear height, or angle the speaker so that it fires at the ears?

As far as the sub goes, I picked up a Bic H100 for $220 /w free shipping. It measures well for a $200 sub and sounds pretty good.
 
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scootermaster

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Nov 29, 2005
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Howard said:
Ribbon tweeters have very poor vertical dispersion. Do you have any way to elevate the ribbon to ear height, or angle the speaker so that it fires at the ears?

As far as the sub goes, I picked up a Bic H100 for $220 /w free shipping. It measures well for a $200 sub and sounds pretty good.
Click to expand...

Luckily, I have a Jerker with side shelves, so it looks roughly like this:
http://www.computer-shares.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/IKEA-Jerker-Shelf.jpg

So while it's likely it won't be perfect, it shouldn't be more than a couple of inches higher or lower than it should be. And if need be, I could buy those $30 foam stands that point the speakers downward, right?

As for the sub, the total budget for this probably needs to be around $400. Sadly, the speakers are $300 not $250 ($50 shipping =[ ) so that takes away $50 I could spend on the sub. Which sucks. So I'm looking at maybe $125 for the sub, $150 at the most, unless there's some seriously compelling reason to do otherwise.

This, for $115 seems reasonable, right? Seems like it's the de-facto standard for cheap subs. http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-635 Also, there's the aforementioned Polk for around the same: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...a-_-na&AID=10440897&PID=3332167&SID=u00000687

They'll both crossover, so I don't have to worry about the capabilities of the receiver, right? Thoughts?
 
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alcoholbob

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May 24, 2005
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If you are adventurous you could always try out craigslist. Some hell of a good deals out there.
 
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A5

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Jun 9, 2000
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If you don't want to build one, the people at AVS like the Polk PSW505 for $200, but I think that's geared more toward HT use. You may be able to find something with a 8" or 10" driver that would be better for music in that price range. Cheap subs with big drivers tend to be a bit sloppy, while smaller drivers enable a faster transient response, which keeps the notes from running together.

Something like the HSU STF-1, maybe? http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/stf-1.html
 
corwin

corwin

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Jan 13, 2006
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A5 said:
If you don't want to build one, the people at AVS like the Polk PSW505 for $200, but I think that's geared more toward HT use. You may be able to find something with a 8" or 10" driver that would be better for music in that price range. Cheap subs with big drivers tend to be a bit sloppy, while smaller drivers enable a faster transient response, which keeps the notes from running together.

Something like the HSU STF-1, maybe? http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/stf-1.html
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The PSW505 is great for music, I love mine...for all the good info there is at AVS you would think every poster there can hear a pin drop at 100yds and tell you if it was aluminum or bronze and how high it bounced:hmm:
 
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Ruger22C

Golden Member
Sep 22, 2006
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*cough* You should use the forum at techtalk.parts-express ... the guys at AVS are often obsessed with loud.. Loud means damaged hearing.

The techtalk guys have the technical knowledge any way. When you know how to build a speaker which includes measuring it, you should know which are the best too.

corwin said:
The PSW505 is great for music, I love mine...for all the good info there is at AVS you would think every poster there can hear a pin drop at 100yds and tell you if it was aluminum or bronze and how high it bounced:hmm:
Click to expand...
 
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Howard

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
47,982
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scootermaster said:
Not. It's likely going to be a gift.

I'll take a look at what people have suggested, but keep 'em coming if there's others.
Click to expand...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/H100-Premie...89?pt=Speakers_Subwoofers&hash=item48375ac451

It says PA-120 but you'll probably end up receiving the Bic H100 if you order it. They will accept a "Make an offer" bid at $220 and shipping is free, and you may also dodge tax.

I currently use the H100 and I have no complaints about it, especially for music. As long as your crossover is low enough (goes for any sub), it'll do just fine. Fit and finish is really quite good; much better than I expected for its price.
 
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