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Uncle Sam has his own gulag

GrGr

Diamond Member
Uncle Sam has his own gulag

Behaving like the Soviet secret police won't make America safer, Eric Margolis says.

By ERIC Margolis

12/05/05 "Canoe.ca" -- The Lubyanka Prison's heavy oak main door swung open. I went in, the first western journalist to enter the KGB's notorious Moscow headquarters -- a place so dreaded Russians dared not utter its name. When they referred to it at all, they called it "Detsky Mir," after a nearby toy store.

After interviewing two senior KGB generals, I explored the fascinating museum of Soviet intelligence and was briefed on special poisons and assassination weapons that left no traces. I sat transfixed at the desk used by all the directors of Stalin's secret police, on which the orders were signed to murder 30 million people.

Descending dimly lit stairs, I saw some of the KGB's execution and torture cellars, and special "cold rooms" where naked prisoners were beaten, then doused with ice water and slowly frozen.

Other favoured Lubyanka tortures: Psychological terror, psychotropic drugs, prolonged sleep deprivation, dazzling lights, intense noise, days in pitch blackness, isolation, humiliation, constant threats, savage beatings, attacks by guard dogs, near drowning.

Nightmares from the past -- but the past has returned.

According to a report leaked to the New York Times, the Swiss-based International Red Cross has accused the Bush administration for a second time of employing systematic, medically supervised torture against suspects being held at Guantanamo Bay, and at U.S.-run prisons in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The second Red Cross report was delivered to the White House last summer while it was trying to dismiss the Abu Ghraib prison torture horrors as the crimes of a few rogue jailers.

According to the report's allegations, many tortures perfected by the Cheka (Soviet secret police) -- notably beating, freezing, sensory disorientation, and sleep deprivation -- are now routinely being used by U.S. interrogators.

The Chekisti, however, did not usually inflict sexual humiliation. That technique, and hooding, were developed by Israeli psychologists to break resistance of Palestinian prisoners. Photos of sexual humiliation were used by Israeli security, and then by U.S. interrogators at Abu Ghraib, to blackmail Muslim prisoners into becoming informers.

All of these practices flagrantly violate the Geneva Conventions, international, and American law. The Pentagon and CIA gulags in Cuba, Iraq and Afghanistan have become a sort of Enron-style, off-the-books operation, immune from American law or Congressional oversight.

Suspects reportedly disappear into a black hole, recalling Latin America's torture camps and "disappearings" of the 1970s and '80s, or the Arab world's sinister secret police prisons.

The U.S. has been sending high-level anti-American suspects to Egypt, Jordan, Morocco, and, reportedly, Pakistan, where it's alleged they are brutally tortured with violent electric shocks, savage beatings, drowning, acid baths, and blowtorching -- the same tortures, ironically, ascribed to Saddam Hussein.

Protests over this by members of Congress, respected human rights groups, and the public have been ignored. President George W. Bush just named Alberto Gonzales to be attorney general, his nation's highest law officer. As White House counsel, Gonzales wrote briefs justifying torture and advised the White House on ways to evade or ignore the Geneva Conventions.

Grossly violating the Geneva Conventions undermines international law and endangers U.S. troops abroad. Anyone who has served in the U.S. armed forces, as I have, should be outraged that this painfully won tenet of international law and civilized behaviour is being trashed by members of the Bush administration.

Un-American behaviour

If, as Bush asserts, terrorism suspects, Taliban, and Muslim mujahedeen fighters not in uniform deserve no protection under the laws of war and may be jailed and tortured at presidential whim, then what law protects from abuse or torture all the un-uniformed U.S. Special Forces, CIA field teams, and those 40,000 or more U.S. and British mercenaries in Iraq and Afghanistan euphemistically called "civilian contractors"?

Behaving like the 1930s Soviet secret police will not make America safer. Such illegal, immoral and totally un-American behaviour corrupts democracy and makes them no better than the criminals they detest.

The 20th century has shown repeatedly that when security forces use torture abroad, they soon begin using it at ho me,firstonsuspectedterrorists,thendissidents,thenonordinarysuspects.

It's time for Congress and the courts to wake up and end this shameful and dangerous episode in America's history.

----------------------------

So Bush is using - Stalin's torture and imprisonment methods and is reorganizing the CIA into a GRU style one party operation - a Nazi style foreign policy coupled with Nazi propaganda and population control techniques - and American (Texan) Enron style economics. Yeehaw.

 
Proud to be an American?:disgust:😱:thumbsdown:

Bush is a disgrace. Wraps himself in the flag and the bible while he encourages third world banana republic outrages by his henchmen. Where is the impeachment process when we really need it?

 
What makes this even dumber is that intelligence gained from torture victims is generally useless. For intelligence purposes torture is unsound. Really I think they are just doing this out of malice on some level.
 
What was done at abu ghraib was NOT torture. It wasn't even that bad, it was blown way out of proportion.
 
Originally posted by: ntdz
What was done at abu ghraib was NOT torture. It wasn't even that bad, it was blown way out of proportion.

did you even read the post? cmon man, stay on topic.
 
Originally posted by: ntdz
What was done at abu ghraib was NOT torture. It wasn't even that bad, it was blown way out of proportion.

Who are you to say it is not torture ? To you it isn't because no one is doing anything wrong to you. To the people in those pictures suffering with the acts being committed against them despite not even having a trail it was torture. People who were arrested for nothing more then walking home during a curfew or other nonsense. If you ask them I bet most of them would say it was torture.
 
I have said all along that we are moving to a society reminiscent of Soviet Russia. Our "leaders" are acting just like Commi Tyrannts, our civil liberties are being slaughtered as much as our patriotic soldiers are over there in Iraq, and the Bush propoganda machine has claimed a news-whore already (Fox News).
 
Originally posted by: wirelessenabled
Proud to be an American?:disgust:😱:thumbsdown:

Bush is a disgrace. Wraps himself in the flag and the bible while he encourages third world banana republic outrages by his henchmen. Where is the impeachment process when we really need it?

4 more years of healing? lmao!
http://www.bushislord.com/

:roll:
 
Originally posted by: wchou
Originally posted by: wirelessenabled
Proud to be an American?:disgust:😱:thumbsdown:

Bush is a disgrace. Wraps himself in the flag and the bible while he encourages third world banana republic outrages by his henchmen. Where is the impeachment process when we really need it?

4 more years of healing? lmao!
http://www.bushislord.com/

:roll:

please tell me that is a joke
 
Originally posted by: phillyTIM
I have said all along that we are moving to a society reminiscent of Soviet Russia. Our "leaders" are acting just like Commi Tyrannts, our civil liberties are being slaughtered as much as our patriotic soldiers are over there in Iraq, and the Bush propoganda machine has claimed a news-whore already (Fox News).

True, we need to expose him for what he is. If we all sit around and do nothing, he will continue to destroy our freedom aka civil liberties. Kind of ironic isn't it? That his words speaks against his own action " we are freedom fighters, we love freedom, they hate freedom "

Its like talking to mass retards who will believe whatever that spews out of his dirty, lying mouth. Theres a lot of dumb people in real life, and anyone with a brain can easily fool them.

http://religiousleft.bmgbiz.net/bushandjesus.html


 
Originally posted by: Czar
Originally posted by: wchou
Originally posted by: wirelessenabled
Proud to be an American?:disgust:😱:thumbsdown:

Bush is a disgrace. Wraps himself in the flag and the bible while he encourages third world banana republic outrages by his henchmen. Where is the impeachment process when we really need it?

4 more years of healing? lmao!
http://www.bushislord.com/

:roll:

please tell me that is a joke

Its a joke but some people really believe it. The webmaster was laughing his arse off too when people like us criticise him on his message board. The website is too funny to be taken serious.
Why would anyone want to worship an demented psycho who has many personality problems?
He has done so many wrong to others yet no one is realising anything. I think the real problems is that most people do not have the capacity to reason anymore other then sleep, eat and work. The news feed them lies over and over, conditions them into whatever that comes out of their mouth. I have learned that most believes that the media is the only truth and to be informed. This is people in general and its scary to see that we're all living a lie, like a fantasy world made by someone to suit their political purpose.
I do not know why most would trust a 3rd party reporters more then a stranger on the street selling illegal drugs, I see no difference between the two. I can only conclude that people will believe anything meant to keep them in checks and balance or from knowing the truth. The truth will set them free but they do not want to be free, they enjoy being controlled and manipulated by others who run this country the way they want. Since most of us are insecured, anything the government says is the truth and only truth. Everything else said by others is unpatriotic or not true.
 
Originally posted by: wchou
Originally posted by: phillyTIM
I have said all along that we are moving to a society reminiscent of Soviet Russia. Our "leaders" are acting just like Commi Tyrannts, our civil liberties are being slaughtered as much as our patriotic soldiers are over there in Iraq, and the Bush propoganda machine has claimed a news-whore already (Fox News).

True, we need to expose him for what he is. If we all sit around and do nothing, he will continue to destroy our freedom aka civil liberties. Kind of ironic isn't it? That his words speaks against his own action " we are freedom fighters, we love freedom, they hate freedom "

Its like talking to mass retards who will believe whatever that spews out of his dirty, lying mouth. Theres a lot of dumb people in real life, and anyone with a brain can easily fool them.

http://religiousleft.bmgbiz.net/bushandjesus.html
True that , wchou - which is exactly the only reason this Bush turkey has been in office in the first place (besides election fraud).
 
Gulag? Hmm I did not know we were using all those detainees for forced labor. If your college professor suddenly shows up missing, maybe he is in the gulag.
 
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
I can't believe we would torture the people who would try to kill us. Geez, just leave them alone and let them kill us, OK?

:roll:
so.. torture is punishment?
 
Originally posted by: Czar
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
I can't believe we would torture the people who would try to kill us. Geez, just leave them alone and let them kill us, OK?

:roll:
so.. torture is punishment?
I don't give a crap. If some sumbiatch has it in his or her head that they want to kill me and mine because of some fvcked up religious belief and a ridiculous ingrained hatred, I really could not care less if they were hung by their genitals 24 hours a day. They can rot and die, and should.

Thy want to kill us yet we have to treat them with kid gloves when we capture them? What kind of screwed up perception of the world are you people living in?

 
Czar, "imo" means - in my opinion", my sources were opinions, as is the ICRC report.

More important though, is the idiotic idea that any of those at GITMO fall under any sort of GC or other protection. They don't as far as I can tell.

I still haven't seen any torture at all, at Abu Ghraib or GITMO, but you know what opinions are like. 😀

Remember that the ICRC isn't the Red Cross you know here in the U.S. I wonder why they keep saying "tantamount" to torture? I know, it's because it's not torture, but they had to say something bad about the U.S.

I don't think the OP's article is accurate regarding the ICRC report anyway.
 
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Czar
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
I can't believe we would torture the people who would try to kill us. Geez, just leave them alone and let them kill us, OK?

:roll:
so.. torture is punishment?
I don't give a crap. If some sumbiatch has it in his or her head that they want to kill me and mine because of some fvcked up religious belief and a ridiculous ingrained hatred, I really could not care less if they were hung by their genitals 24 hours a day. They can rot and die, and should.

Thy want to kill us yet we have to treat them with kid gloves when we capture them? What kind of screwed up perception of the world are you people living in?

Hopefully we can expect nothing less for our POWs.
 
I have said all along that we are moving to a society reminiscent of Soviet Russia.

How so?

Our "leaders" are acting just like Commi Tyrannts,

Really?

our civil liberties are being slaughtered as much as our patriotic soldiers are over there in Iraq

Which cival liberties?

and the Bush propoganda machine has claimed a news-whore already (Fox News).

/gasp you mean a network that doesnt carry the democratic talking points 24/7?!?!?!? omg can we have those in a free society?

 
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Czar
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
I can't believe we would torture the people who would try to kill us. Geez, just leave them alone and let them kill us, OK?

:roll:
so.. torture is punishment?
I don't give a crap. If some sumbiatch has it in his or her head that they want to kill me and mine because of some fvcked up religious belief and a ridiculous ingrained hatred, I really could not care less if they were hung by their genitals 24 hours a day. They can rot and die, and should.

Thy want to kill us yet we have to treat them with kid gloves when we capture them? What kind of screwed up perception of the world are you people living in?

Hopefully we can expect nothing less for our POWs.
You mean, if they are lucky enough to retain their heads?
 
Behaving like the Soviet Secret police huh? If we really were doing that they would have taken down all our names and IP addresses and we'd never be heard from again....speaking of which, where is Conjur lately? 🙂
 
Originally posted by: LTC8K6
Czar, "imo" means - in my opinion", my sources were opinions, as is the ICRC report.

More important though, is the idiotic idea that any of those at GITMO fall under any sort of GC or other protection. They don't as far as I can tell.

I still haven't seen any torture at all, at Abu Ghraib or GITMO, but you know what opinions are like. 😀

Remember that the ICRC isn't the Red Cross you know here in the U.S. I wonder why they keep saying "tantamount" to torture? I know, it's because it's not torture, but they had to say something bad about the U.S.

I don't think the OP's article is accurate regarding the ICRC report anyway.

"Tantamount to torture" is simply an eupheism for, that's right, torture. Why do people use eupheisms? Why do people use diplomatic language.

It's like when the US military says a family was killed by "collateral damage" when in fact what killed that family a 500 pound bomb dropped by a US military aircraft. The US military is not going to go out and say - "Today we dropped a 500 pound bomb on an innocent family wiping it out completely".



 
Tantamount means equivalent too but not the same thing.
So while torture may not have actually been going on. The opinion of the report is the equivalent of toture was.

 
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