All of the remaining fighters are terrorists. And not just because they attack the US troops, but because they shoot, behead, and car bomb Iraqi citizens. Iraqi's who are ready for democracy are terrorized.
All of the remaining fighters are terrorists. And not just because they attack the US troops, but because they shoot, behead, and car bomb Iraqi citizens. Iraqi's who are ready for democracy are terrorized.
This is a REALLY stupid argument. Not all the Iraqi insurgents are doing the actions you just mentioned. In fact, those staying behind in Falujah are presumably the fighters who do want to engage US troops directly.
Putting aside your apparent definition of "democracy," and sticking with your definition of "terrorist," you are saying that you believe that every Iraqi insurgent in Falluja is a "terrorist" who is guilty of shooting, beheading, and car bombing Iraqi citizens, and that there is no chance whatsoever that any the people seen in the video in question (nor any of the other insurgent casualties in Falluja, for that matter) were non-terrorist insurgents...
Is that a fair summary of your position?
cumhail
You are telling me they are a completely separate group from those that carried out bombings and shootings of Iraqis? Those in Falluja have had nothing to do with those actions? They did not terrorize those within their own city?
judasmachine
Diamond Member
- Sep 15, 2002
- 8,515
- 3
- 81
Summary: Marine wound too tightly from being wounded earlier in the day (or week?) kills unarmed man, and it also shows the shootout from the other day where someone was shot after being wounded. However that second story is unclear as to if the injured insurgent still had his gun. There was a soundbit from a few Marine officers saying they will follow the law on shooting unarmed injured enemy combatants.
Nothing happens after the shooting, they just turn around and walk away, and some of the other wounded plea for their lives. The marines treat these with a bit more respect.
Nothing happens after the shooting, they just turn around and walk away, and some of the other wounded plea for their lives. The marines treat these with a bit more respect.
And so the Falluja terrorists have completely exterminated and/or displaced any and all of the Falluja non-terrorists, leaving a Falluja population comprised of a 100% terrorist population, thereby making any non-American in Fallujah fair game to do with as we wish, wounded or not, armed or not...
Thanks for clarifying your position,
cumhail
Hayabusa Rider
Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
- Jan 26, 2000
- 50,879
- 4,268
- 126
Reality sets in.
Yet another reason we should not have gone in because this and how many other incidents exactly like it are bound to happen. War sucks, and we entered it lightly. Unfortunately the Iraqis and our soldiers have to live with Bush's bad choices.
Yet another reason we should not have gone in because this and how many other incidents exactly like it are bound to happen. War sucks, and we entered it lightly. Unfortunately the Iraqis and our soldiers have to live with Bush's bad choices.
And the same people spouting off in defense of this cold-blooded murderer by saying it's war, think of the context, blah blah blah, are the same ones that denied atrocities occurred in Vietnam as described by Kerry and many others.
Guess this war is unique. :roll:
You know the marines must have had a reason to shoot the on insurgent. Look at the way they treated the rest of the wounded.
What's troubling is how quickly and consistently history begins to repeat itself. I don't know enough about the Falluja situation, at this point, to liken it in any concrete way to My Lai... but what can be likened to it is the refusal of some/many to see any possibility of fault in "our side's" actions and any virtue in our perceived "enemy." The same arguments about were made, then, about VC tactics justifying the massacre that Valvoline and others are so quick to make now.
When Abu Ghraib broke, people of this mentality were quick to blame the prisoners and the stress the poor soldiers were put into by the "refusal to accept democracy;" in Falluja, again it's the fault of all these "terrorists" for this poor soldier's bad judgement call. And in both cases, the media is to blame for letting news of these events get out, just as the media was to blame for overblowing things like My Lai.
Believe it or not, I'm not trying to vilify the US military or anyone else. But we're already starting to see the emergency of an us-vs-them mentality where "them" is anything and anyone that threatens our self-image of impunity and perfection. We ostensibly fought in Vietnam to protect democracy in South Vietnam (we won't even get into that right now), too... and just as all "gooks" got lumped together as being "VC's," and "VC-sympathizers," then, all "ayrabs" are being lumped together as "terrorists" and "terrorist-sympathizers now."
I'll bow out of this one, now, as I am sure that anything I say will fall on a great many deaf ears; but I'll leave with a poem by W.D. Ehrhart, a former US Marine and Vietnam veteran who later became an outspoken critic of the war:
"GUERRILLA WAR,"
by W.D. Ehrhart
It is practically impossible
to tell civilians
from the Vietcong.
Nobody wears uniforms.
They all talk
the same language
(and you couldn't understand them
even if they didn't).
They tape grenades
inside their clothes,
and carry sack charges
in their market baskets.
Even the women fight;
and young boys,
and girls.
It is practically impossible
to tell the civilians
from the Vietcong'
after awhile
you quit trying.
That argument seems to go both ways.
1) The troops treated other injured Iraqis well so they probably weren't scared of people acting dead actually being terrorists
2) The troops treated other injured Iraqis well so they probably wanted to treat the other guy well too.
This coming from a fascist. Also, what kind of crappy description is that. The video does not show the liberal media blowing up the situation due to greed. Try and distinguish between objective and subjective.
Uh, okay. As a Vietnamese man, I can't tell you how utterly moronic that generalization is. It's blatantly obvious how stupid that is. The soldier deserves his share of the blame for lack of judgement but the lion's share of the blame goes to this stupid administration for having started this war and putting them in hell for no reason JUST LIKE VIETNAM. Are you that dense to make that quantum leap of logic?
Don Vito Corleone
Elite
- Feb 10, 2000
- 30,029
- 67
- 91
This certainly looks to me like murder, and a war crime to boot. I've worked as a military defense attorney, and IMO there's simply no way the USMC can let this go - this guy can and should be taken to a General Court-Martial. The insurgent was wounded, unarmed, and posed no threat to the Marine. Combat stress is not a defense to the crime of murder, though it will be relevant in sentencing if he's convicted.
Frankly I imagine this kind of shooting is common, but it's not legally excusable.
I fail to see how the "liberal media" have anything to do with this being newsworthy - the Marine was the one who elected to shoot an unarmed, wounded opponent with a video camera running. His military career is probably not paramount among his worries at this point, because with or without the media, he'd still be looking at spending the rest of his life in prison.
Frankly I imagine this kind of shooting is common, but it's not legally excusable.
I fail to see how the "liberal media" have anything to do with this being newsworthy - the Marine was the one who elected to shoot an unarmed, wounded opponent with a video camera running. His military career is probably not paramount among his worries at this point, because with or without the media, he'd still be looking at spending the rest of his life in prison.
DonVito, how can you say with certainty that at the time of the shooting the enemy combatant posed no threat?
Do you think that he should spend the rest of his life in jail?
Hmmm... back in the Cheney thread people were saying it's not right to wish death on anyone. And these people are iraqis. Rememember, the guys you're supposed to liberate?
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