UN report on climate change concludes we're in serious trouble

[Geosurface]

CO2 is an asphyxiant gas and not classified as toxic or harmful

But am I not correct in believing that when you talk about car exhaust or factory exhaust etc, CO2 is not the only thing in there? I mean, you're burning a fossil fuel... that's producing more than just pure CO2 isn't it? Isn't there a lot of toxic stuff in WITH the CO2?

 

[simpletron]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide#Toxicity

CO2 is an asphyxiant gas and not classified as toxic or harmful in accordance with Globally Harmonized System of Classification and Labelling of Chemicals standards of United Nations Economic Commission for Europe by using the OECD Guidelines for the Testing of Chemicals. In concentrations up to 1% (10,000 ppm), it will make some people feel drowsy.[84] Concentrations of 7% to 10% may cause suffocation, even in the presence of sufficient oxygen, manifesting as dizziness, headache, visual and hearing dysfunction, and unconsciousness within a few minutes to an hour.

Adaptation to increased levels of CO2 occurs in humans. Continuous inhalation of CO2 can be tolerated at three percent inspired concentrations for at least one month and four percent inspired concentrations for over a week. It was suggested that 2.0 percent inspired concentrations could be used for closed air spaces (e.g. a submarine) since the adaptation is physiological and reversible. Decrement in performance or in normal physical activity does not happen at this level.[88][89] However, it should be noted that submarines have carbon dioxide scrubbers which reduce a significant amount of the CO2 present.

Carbon dioxide differential above outdoor levels at steady state conditions (when the occupancy and ventilation system operation are sufficiently long that CO2 concentration has stabilized) are sometimes used to estimate ventilation rates per person. CO2 is considered to be a surrogate for human bio-effluents and may correlate with other indoor pollutants. Higher CO2 concentrations are associated with occupant health, comfort and performance degradation. ASHRAE Standard 62.1–2007 ventilation rates may result in indoor levels up to 2,100 ppm above ambient outdoor conditions. Thus if the outdoor ambient is 400 ppm, indoor levels may reach 2,500 ppm with ventilation rates that meet this industry consensus standard. Levels in poorly ventilated spaces can be found even higher than this (range of 3,000 or 4,000).

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More like 70000 ppm.

Osha has ran studies on the exposure to CO2, and have concluded the personal exposure limit for 8-hour work day is 5,000 ppm (0.5%). At 70,000 ppm, people would be losing consciousness after ~30 minutes, not exactly an atmosphere I would want breathe. 5,000 ppm is still a lot higher than the ~400 ppm the atmosphere is at now.

 

[GaiaHunter]

But am I not correct in believing that when you talk about car exhaust or factory exhaust etc, CO2 is not the only thing in there? I mean, you're burning a fossil fuel... that's producing more than just pure CO2 isn't it? Isn't there a lot of toxic stuff in WITH the CO2?

CO2 also comes out of our noses and it doesn't come associated with any toxic stuff.


Likewise, what our cars exhaust is mostly N2 (nitrogen, ~70%, not toxic), CO2 (~!4%, not toxic), H20 (water vapour, ~12%).

Then you have some trace elements that are hazardous like CO (carbon monoxide, 1-2%, in petrol, diesel is just a trace (under 0.05%), NOx (nitrogen oxides), SOx (sulphur oxides), some hydrocarbons (CxHx), some O3, soot (mostly in diesel).

Most of the exhaust of cars is clean.

Unfortunately, with the craze of CO2 and global warming, cheaper cars generally produce less CO2 (that isn't toxic) than more expensive cars with better filters that produce more CO2 but less of the really bad stuff like NOx, SOx, CO, etc.

Many of the toxic substances are also produced due to incomplete combustion or excessive combustion temperatures, so higher quality engines reduce the pollutants.

Natural gas produces even less toxic substances: 0.009% NO, 0.004% CO and like 0.0001% SO2.

So it really depends of what you are burning and it isn't a case of CO2 being associated with toxic stuff, this is, when you generate CO2 you don't necessarily have to generate the other substances.

 

[Darwin333]

so even when the usa is reducing its emissions it still gets blamed for what happens in china.

How obvious is the UN's anti america agenda?

It is sort of true and the biggest problem with any sort of legislation to curb emissions. If we make shit expensive to make here it will be made in other places that are far poorer and care only about todays meal. Hungry people don't give two shits about what is going to happen in 15 or 30 years so they don't have laws concerning emissions. They already have far cheaper labor so when you throw in added costs to produce stuff elsewhere it gets even more lucrative.

Therein lies the problem with global warming. It requires a global solution and I have yet to hear or even ponder any sort of realistic solution. A solution that must include convincing billions of dirt poor people to forgo luxuries like electricity for even longer until they can afford cleaner (read: more expensive) forms of electricity or fuels. It would probably take a generation at the very least for people to save up enough for their first vehicle to meet anything near modern emission standards.

 

[Muse]

the eco-KOOK hoax is loosing traction thus the alarmist propaganda. Next they will pump their willing accomplices in the old media to recycle media action lines / sound bites. More alarmist rhetoric about polar bears and calving ice from glaciers. It's a hoax. It's liberal mythology based on voodoo junk science / cherry picked rigged computer models and flat out lies. Elections Have Consequences.

And you harbor these illusions why? Because you can't face the guilt you suppress every time you twist that key in your car's ignition? I have to think so.