UN halts aid to Gaza, cites Hamas disruption

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RichardE

Banned
Dec 31, 2005
10,246
2
0
Originally posted by: TheSnowman
The life of every Palestinian revolves around Israel's occupation and colonization of their homeland, regardless of how much you'd like to deny it.

Funny, I thought it revolved around Palestine. If they revolve around nothing but Israel interested they should welcome being annexed. If Israel let them become a state, they would still be involved in a de facto civil war, something I am sure they are more concerned about with at the moment than a new checkpoint.

As I said, it is short sighted for you ignored the internal politics of Palestine.
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
0
0
I am not ignoring anything here, you are just misrepresenting my statement with an absolutism to convince yourself otherwise.
 

RichardE

Banned
Dec 31, 2005
10,246
2
0
Originally posted by: TheSnowman
I am not ignoring anything here, you are just misrepresenting my statement with an absolutism to convince yourself otherwise.

Nope, you did ignore them, pretty blatantly too. You cannot mentally take them into consideration and expect people to know you did that if that is what you did. The world doesn't work that way. :beer:
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
0
0
Please describe, in detail, whatever you are accusing me of failing to take into consideration.
 

RichardE

Banned
Dec 31, 2005
10,246
2
0
Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Please describe, in detail, whatever you are accusing me of failing to take into consideration.

The ignoring of the power struggle instead you attribute it to a superficial struggle for the right to live under Israel rule with this comment.

The conflict between Fatah and Hamas is over how to live under Israel's refusal to acknowledge Palestinians rights under international law, to resolve the effect we must address that cause.

Your idea you project implies that removing the settlements would enable peace to happen between Fatah and Hamas ignoring the obviouse security issues of having a civil war on Israels doorstep, let alone a analysis made without any backup at all.


Your ignoring the fact that it truly doesn't matter who is in power, both have failed to reach agreements with Israel, and with that history it doesn't matter what actions Israel takes it will not be settled until they come to terms with each other. You stated that here

It matters to those of us who want to separate reality from misconceptions.

The misconceptions you spout are exactly what I said, ideas that don't matter, like me saying it doesn't matter what color the gun is, its still going to kill you, and you arguing that it has significance if its black or brown.



Here, you again ignore the fact that Hamas has been attacking Fatah off and on since 1988, though in the end as I said before it doesn't matter, and for this entire basis of this thread was nothing more than a derailment.

I get the impression you are not aware of the fact that our government persuaded Fatah to attempt an overthrow Hamas's legitimately elected position by planing an funding a covert initiative, approved by Bush and implemented by Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Deputy National Security Adviser Elliott Abrams, to provoke a Palestinian civil war.

How does that fit into this in your eyes?

Statements you made that had nothing to do in regards to the OP.


Here you ignore how the Zionist settlers first acted in self defence to the persecution of the Arabs, not to mention you ignore how European cultures expressed sympathy yet failed to open there borders to Jews when asked, which was directly responsible for the emphasis on a home state for the Jewish people

This reminds me a bit of the early Zionists who focused their effort on colonizing Palestine instead of focusing their efforts on rescuing the millions of Jews being persecuted throughout Europe. Some people are selfish thugs.



Not to mention, I am still waiting for you to address the own inconsistencies in your own arguments which you seem to ignore, that you perhaps put some magical faith in them that your like "blind spots" in your solutions will magically heal them self.
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
0
0
Originally posted by: RichardE
The ignoring of the power struggle instead you attribute it to a superficial struggle for the right to live under Israel rule with this comment.

The conflict between Fatah and Hamas is over how to live under Israel's refusal to acknowledge Palestinians rights under international law, to resolve the effect we must address that cause.

Try again.
 

RichardE

Banned
Dec 31, 2005
10,246
2
0
Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Originally posted by: RichardE
The ignoring of the power struggle instead you attribute it to a superficial struggle for the right to live under Israel rule with this comment.

The conflict between Fatah and Hamas is over how to live under Israel's refusal to acknowledge Palestinians rights under international law, to resolve the effect we must address that cause.

Try again.

Well, I pegged you properly on everything else. You are hopeless Snowman, you either have no stance, or some magical stance you don't tell anyone. It's pathetic really. You have no concrete idea of how to come by peace except through the magical UN. The only redeeming factor you have is perhaps a solid moral code, but it is not backed up by anything but feel good analogies and explanations that never address questions posed to you.


In other words, you have no substance. Until you can answer questions posed to you multiple times it is useless to have any conversation with you on this. Luckily though, if you are part of the "UN will save the world crowd if it wasn't for the big bad USA" than there is really nothing to worry about in regards to your ideas.

If I were you, I would watch the Israel elections next Tuesday as the far right groups take power and deal with the Palestinian problem once and for all. You can wonder where your precious UN is than.
 

Freshgeardude

Diamond Member
Jul 31, 2006
4,506
0
76
Originally posted by: TheSnowman
The life of every Palestinian revolves around Israel's occupation and colonization of their homeland, regardless of how much you'd like to deny it.

what a LIE


you think being killed in their own cities because they disagree with hamas using their land as underground bases, or killing people at a wedding because they were SINGING is because of Israel?

no, its because of radical islam
 

Freshgeardude

Diamond Member
Jul 31, 2006
4,506
0
76
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Originally posted by: RichardE
The ignoring of the power struggle instead you attribute it to a superficial struggle for the right to live under Israel rule with this comment.

The conflict between Fatah and Hamas is over how to live under Israel's refusal to acknowledge Palestinians rights under international law, to resolve the effect we must address that cause.

Try again.

If I were you, I would watch the Israel elections next Tuesday as the far right groups take power and deal with the Palestinian problem once and for all. You can wonder where your precious UN is than.


well.. if netanyahu gets elected, which I personally do want, he is more into the 2 state solution. under his previous ruling, Israel was pretty peaceful from what I understand. he is a very bright man, and I hope if/when he gets elected he can solve this problem once and for all

 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,321
126
Originally posted by: freshgeardude
Originally posted by: TheSnowman
The life of every Palestinian revolves around Israel's occupation and colonization of their homeland, regardless of how much you'd like to deny it.

what a LIE


you think being killed in their own cities because they disagree with hamas using their land as underground bases, or killing people at a wedding because they were SINGING is because of Israel?

no, its because of radical islam

I agree..what a lie........in fact thats the only thing he says---
The life of every Palestinian revolves around Israel's occupation and colonization of their homeland, regardless of how much you'd like to deny it. <--- yeah right!!
 

RichardE

Banned
Dec 31, 2005
10,246
2
0
Originally posted by: freshgeardude
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Originally posted by: RichardE
The ignoring of the power struggle instead you attribute it to a superficial struggle for the right to live under Israel rule with this comment.

The conflict between Fatah and Hamas is over how to live under Israel's refusal to acknowledge Palestinians rights under international law, to resolve the effect we must address that cause.

Try again.

If I were you, I would watch the Israel elections next Tuesday as the far right groups take power and deal with the Palestinian problem once and for all. You can wonder where your precious UN is than.


well.. if netanyahu gets elected, which I personally do want, he is more into the 2 state solution. under his previous ruling, Israel was pretty peaceful from what I understand. he is a very bright man, and I hope if/when he gets elected he can solve this problem once and for all

I agree, having Likud in power would be a great thing. :) That phrasing sounded more malicious than I intended heh, I meant the right wing parties who have the political balls to actually deal with the situation :)
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
0
0
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Originally posted by: RichardE
The ignoring of the power struggle instead you attribute it to a superficial struggle for the right to live under Israel rule with this comment.

The conflict between Fatah and Hamas is over how to live under Israel's refusal to acknowledge Palestinians rights under international law, to resolve the effect we must address that cause.

Try again.

Well, I pegged you properly on everything else.

No, you missed me on all counts, and completely dodged my question as well. I just figured I'd try to prompted to see the difference between what I said and what you misinterpreted it to mean, but again it seems that is too much for you.

Originally posted by: RichardE
If I were you, I would watch the Israel elections next Tuesday as the far right groups take power and deal with the Palestinian problem once and for all.

What are you expecting?

Originally posted by: freshgeardude
Originally posted by: TheSnowman
The life of every Palestinian revolves around Israel's occupation and colonization of their homeland, regardless of how much you'd like to deny it.

what a LIE


you think...

I know you can't find one Palestinian to disagree with what I said there.

Originally posted by: freshgeardude
well.. if netanyahu gets elected, which I personally do want, he is more into the 2 state solution. under his previous ruling, Israel was pretty peaceful from what I understand. he is a very bright man, and I hope if/when he gets elected he can solve this problem once and for all

Sure, Hamas is Netanyahu's bastard godchild, and he is openly supporting settlement expansion. He is a very intelligent man, but he has never been interested in resolving this conflict has never been a part of his goals.
 

RichardE

Banned
Dec 31, 2005
10,246
2
0
Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Originally posted by: RichardE
The ignoring of the power struggle instead you attribute it to a superficial struggle for the right to live under Israel rule with this comment.

The conflict between Fatah and Hamas is over how to live under Israel's refusal to acknowledge Palestinians rights under international law, to resolve the effect we must address that cause.

Try again.

Well, I pegged you properly on everything else.

No, you missed me on all counts, and completely dodged my question as well. I just figured I'd try to prompted to see the difference between what I said and what you misinterpreted it to mean, but again it seems that is too much for you.

Originally posted by: RichardE
If I were you, I would watch the Israel elections next Tuesday as the far right groups take power and deal with the Palestinian problem once and for all.

What are you expecting?

Originally posted by: freshgeardude
Originally posted by: TheSnowman
The life of every Palestinian revolves around Israel's occupation and colonization of their homeland, regardless of how much you'd like to deny it.

what a LIE


you think...

I know you can't find one Palestinian to disagree with what I said there.

Originally posted by: freshgeardude
well.. if netanyahu gets elected, which I personally do want, he is more into the 2 state solution. under his previous ruling, Israel was pretty peaceful from what I understand. he is a very bright man, and I hope if/when he gets elected he can solve this problem once and for all

Sure, Hamas is Netanyahu's bastard godchild, and he is openly supporting settlement expansion. He is a very intelligent man, but he has never been interested in resolving this conflict has never been a part of his goals.

You still blabbling without substance?

Well colored me surprised you are. Have you bothered to formulate any concrete opinions based on anything more than a "strong faith" in the institution of the UN?

Also, Net will solve the issue along with the other right wing groups poised for victory. Just not in the manner you might enjoy. :) As I told you, no one truly cares about your stance, not the UN, not Europe, not even the Arab countries truly care about the Palestinians. (Though a stance without substance is hard to care for :laugh: )
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
0
0
You are still overlooking the substance I have presented, so I have no intrest in adding more.

Originally posted by: RichardE
Also, Net will solve the issue along with the other right wing groups poised for victory. Just not in the manner you might enjoy.

What manner are you expecting?
 

RichardE

Banned
Dec 31, 2005
10,246
2
0
Originally posted by: TheSnowman
You are still overlooking the substance I have presented, so I have no intrest in adding more.

Originally posted by: RichardE
Also, Net will solve the issue along with the other right wing groups poised for victory. Just not in the manner you might enjoy.

What manner are you expecting?

You have added nothing and ignore all questions. Your opinions are shallow and without relevance, which is show by how any opinions such as yours are dismissed as naive by the world as a while.
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
0
0
I'm trying to convince you to acknowledge the substance of what I do say rather than misrepresenting it as you did here:

Originally posted by: RichardE
The ignoring of the power struggle instead you attribute it to a superficial struggle for the right to live under Israel rule with this comment.

The conflict between Fatah and Hamas is over how to live under Israel's refusal to acknowledge Palestinians rights under international law, to resolve the effect we must address that cause.

Do you not comprehend the difference in the two?
 

Freshgeardude

Diamond Member
Jul 31, 2006
4,506
0
76
Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Originally posted by: RichardE
The ignoring of the power struggle instead you attribute it to a superficial struggle for the right to live under Israel rule with this comment.

The conflict between Fatah and Hamas is over how to live under Israel's refusal to acknowledge Palestinians rights under international law, to resolve the effect we must address that cause.

Try again.

Well, I pegged you properly on everything else.

No, you missed me on all counts, and completely dodged my question as well. I just figured I'd try to prompted to see the difference between what I said and what you misinterpreted it to mean, but again it seems that is too much for you.

Originally posted by: RichardE
If I were you, I would watch the Israel elections next Tuesday as the far right groups take power and deal with the Palestinian problem once and for all.

What are you expecting?

Originally posted by: freshgeardude
Originally posted by: TheSnowman
The life of every Palestinian revolves around Israel's occupation and colonization of their homeland, regardless of how much you'd like to deny it.

what a LIE


you think...

I know you can't find one Palestinian to disagree with what I said there.

actually, I am sure plenty of gazans are more afraid of being killed by hamas than they are by an israeli soldier.

Israel didnt force them to give up their farms as underground tunnels to launch missiles into israel, and if they said no to hamas they would be killed.

secondly, if their homes are no where near any mortar shell launchers or missile launchers, or anything that is threatening to israel, I dont think they are as afraid of losing their homes from death from israelis as they are from hamas using their land as "fresh" places to dig tunnels
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,321
126
Originally posted by: freshgeardude
Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Originally posted by: RichardE
The ignoring of the power struggle instead you attribute it to a superficial struggle for the right to live under Israel rule with this comment.

The conflict between Fatah and Hamas is over how to live under Israel's refusal to acknowledge Palestinians rights under international law, to resolve the effect we must address that cause.

Try again.

Well, I pegged you properly on everything else.

No, you missed me on all counts, and completely dodged my question as well. I just figured I'd try to prompted to see the difference between what I said and what you misinterpreted it to mean, but again it seems that is too much for you.

Originally posted by: RichardE
If I were you, I would watch the Israel elections next Tuesday as the far right groups take power and deal with the Palestinian problem once and for all.

What are you expecting?

Originally posted by: freshgeardude
Originally posted by: TheSnowman
The life of every Palestinian revolves around Israel's occupation and colonization of their homeland, regardless of how much you'd like to deny it.

what a LIE


you think...

I know you can't find one Palestinian to disagree with what I said there.

actually, I am sure plenty of gazans are more afraid of being killed by hamas than they are by an israeli soldier.

Israel didnt force them to give up their farms as underground tunnels to launch missiles into israel, and if they said no to hamas they would be killed.

secondly, if their homes are no where near any mortar shell launchers or missile launchers, or anything that is threatening to israel, I dont think they are as afraid of losing their homes from death from israelis as they are from hamas using their land as "fresh" places to dig tunnels

Now --If only TheSnowman actually saw it this way..instead of everything is Israel`s fault!!
 

daniel49

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2005
4,814
0
71
The sad reality is Isreal cares more about the general populous of Gaza then Hamas, Fatah,or the arab population (in the greater M.E.)in general./thread
 

Freshgeardude

Diamond Member
Jul 31, 2006
4,506
0
76
Originally posted by: daniel49
The sad reality is Isreal cares more about the general populous of Gaza then Hamas, Fatah,or the arab population (in the greater M.E.)in general./thread

yep, but thesnowman will say israel is treating them like dogs, taking over their land, etc
 

smack Down

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2005
4,507
0
0
Originally posted by: freshgeardude
Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Originally posted by: RichardE
The ignoring of the power struggle instead you attribute it to a superficial struggle for the right to live under Israel rule with this comment.

The conflict between Fatah and Hamas is over how to live under Israel's refusal to acknowledge Palestinians rights under international law, to resolve the effect we must address that cause.

Try again.

Well, I pegged you properly on everything else.

No, you missed me on all counts, and completely dodged my question as well. I just figured I'd try to prompted to see the difference between what I said and what you misinterpreted it to mean, but again it seems that is too much for you.

Originally posted by: RichardE
If I were you, I would watch the Israel elections next Tuesday as the far right groups take power and deal with the Palestinian problem once and for all.

What are you expecting?

Originally posted by: freshgeardude
Originally posted by: TheSnowman
The life of every Palestinian revolves around Israel's occupation and colonization of their homeland, regardless of how much you'd like to deny it.

what a LIE


you think...

I know you can't find one Palestinian to disagree with what I said there.

actually, I am sure plenty of gazans are more afraid of being killed by hamas than they are by an israeli soldier.

Israel didnt force them to give up their farms as underground tunnels to launch missiles into israel, and if they said no to hamas they would be killed.

secondly, if their homes are no where near any mortar shell launchers or missile launchers, or anything that is threatening to israel, I dont think they are as afraid of losing their homes from death from israelis as they are from hamas using their land as "fresh" places to dig tunnels

What is your point. It is like that with every government. Every hear the say "give unto Caesar that which is Caesar"

Here do a little experiment try not paying our taxes and see which you have more to fear your government or Hamas.
 

Freshgeardude

Diamond Member
Jul 31, 2006
4,506
0
76
Originally posted by: smack Down
Originally posted by: freshgeardude
Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Originally posted by: RichardE
The ignoring of the power struggle instead you attribute it to a superficial struggle for the right to live under Israel rule with this comment.

The conflict between Fatah and Hamas is over how to live under Israel's refusal to acknowledge Palestinians rights under international law, to resolve the effect we must address that cause.

Try again.

Well, I pegged you properly on everything else.

No, you missed me on all counts, and completely dodged my question as well. I just figured I'd try to prompted to see the difference between what I said and what you misinterpreted it to mean, but again it seems that is too much for you.

Originally posted by: RichardE
If I were you, I would watch the Israel elections next Tuesday as the far right groups take power and deal with the Palestinian problem once and for all.

What are you expecting?

Originally posted by: freshgeardude
Originally posted by: TheSnowman
The life of every Palestinian revolves around Israel's occupation and colonization of their homeland, regardless of how much you'd like to deny it.

what a LIE


you think...

I know you can't find one Palestinian to disagree with what I said there.

actually, I am sure plenty of gazans are more afraid of being killed by hamas than they are by an israeli soldier.

Israel didnt force them to give up their farms as underground tunnels to launch missiles into israel, and if they said no to hamas they would be killed.

secondly, if their homes are no where near any mortar shell launchers or missile launchers, or anything that is threatening to israel, I dont think they are as afraid of losing their homes from death from israelis as they are from hamas using their land as "fresh" places to dig tunnels

What is your point. It is like that with every government. Every hear the say "give unto Caesar that which is Caesar"

Here do a little experiment try not paying our taxes and see which you have more to fear your government or Hamas.

our government does not pressure us with death if we dont comply with everything they ask.
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
0
0
Originally posted by: freshgeardude
yep, but thesnowman will say israel is treating them like dogs, taking over their land, etc

That is how Winston Churchill put it in his support for the conquest of Palestine back in it's early days:

I do not agree that the dog in a manger has the final right to the manger even though he may have lain there for a very long time. I do not admit that right. I do not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place.

How is it any less treating Palestinians like dogs while holding millions them under overwhelming military force as colonization of the West Bank continues to this day?
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,321
126
Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Originally posted by: freshgeardude
yep, but thesnowman will say israel is treating them like dogs, taking over their land, etc

That is how Winston Churchill put it in his support for the conquest of Palestine back in it's early days:

I do not agree that the dog in a manger has the final right to the manger even though he may have lain there for a very long time. I do not admit that right. I do not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place.

How is it any less treating Palestinians like dogs while holding millions them under overwhelming military force as colonization of the West Bank continues to this day?

Who cares about what Winston Churchill said???
he was once quoted as saying that whoever won the war wrote the history of the war....

You just don`t get it do you Snowman.......
I believe you do get it...but you are way too into this Israel is wrong the palestinians are right thing for your ego to admit that you are wrong...lol
 

smack Down

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2005
4,507
0
0
Originally posted by: freshgeardude
Originally posted by: smack Down
Originally posted by: freshgeardude
Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Originally posted by: RichardE
The ignoring of the power struggle instead you attribute it to a superficial struggle for the right to live under Israel rule with this comment.

The conflict between Fatah and Hamas is over how to live under Israel's refusal to acknowledge Palestinians rights under international law, to resolve the effect we must address that cause.

Try again.

Well, I pegged you properly on everything else.

No, you missed me on all counts, and completely dodged my question as well. I just figured I'd try to prompted to see the difference between what I said and what you misinterpreted it to mean, but again it seems that is too much for you.

Originally posted by: RichardE
If I were you, I would watch the Israel elections next Tuesday as the far right groups take power and deal with the Palestinian problem once and for all.

What are you expecting?

Originally posted by: freshgeardude
Originally posted by: TheSnowman
The life of every Palestinian revolves around Israel's occupation and colonization of their homeland, regardless of how much you'd like to deny it.

what a LIE


you think...

I know you can't find one Palestinian to disagree with what I said there.

actually, I am sure plenty of gazans are more afraid of being killed by hamas than they are by an israeli soldier.

Israel didnt force them to give up their farms as underground tunnels to launch missiles into israel, and if they said no to hamas they would be killed.

secondly, if their homes are no where near any mortar shell launchers or missile launchers, or anything that is threatening to israel, I dont think they are as afraid of losing their homes from death from israelis as they are from hamas using their land as "fresh" places to dig tunnels

What is your point. It is like that with every government. Every hear the say "give unto Caesar that which is Caesar"

Here do a little experiment try not paying our taxes and see which you have more to fear your government or Hamas.

our government does not pressure us with death if we dont comply with everything they ask.

No they use jail time. Does the type of punishment really mater that much?